Those should work fine. I again mention the layout a guy I know is building, except the only photos he posts are on Facebook and I don't want to post his name here for people to search (and I don't know that he makes the posts public anyway). He makes frames like this guy, but instead of a big wood bracket, he used plain angles you can get at any big box store. 6" or 7" ones should be plenty. The rear crossmembers are screwed directly intot he wall studs, and then also he uses the angles under crossmembers where they meet a stud/ He's got other areas where he bolts an L girder to the ceiling and then hangs verticals, to which he then attaches the benchwork. I've yet to see it in person but it sure looks plenty sturdy.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The thing with Jeff's bracket design and layout (I think he mentions it in the video) is that his entire wall is backed with plywood so he could basically screw benchwork anywhere into the wall.
I wish I had that option but like majority of people my walls are finished drywall with studs. Though I know now for the future, if it ever comes to it, to put plywood behind the drywall. :)
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ONLY on that wall, on other walls you screw to the studs. Makes no difference, other than on the plywood wall he can just run screws in wherever. My friend who is doign the same thing except with the metal angles has nothing more than standard stud walls.
Even the extra wall I am having put in for the layout penninsula will be just studs. I'm debating leaving the drywall off until the layout benchwork is in place, but that means a lot more drywall cutting. Or not using drywall at all, it is after all an interior wall. I can just put masonite up as a backdrop. I have no plans to close in the studs below the lower level, to allow better air circulation.
I was just going to say that - a lot of people might not be considering air circulation. When they put new walls up in previously open basements and block the air that was free-to-flow beforehand, they change the dynamics of their HVAC system. This puts unknown strains on their furnace blower and affects the air distribution throghout their home.
rrinker Even the extra wall I am having put in for the layout penninsula will be just studs. I'm debating leaving the drywall off until the layout benchwork is in place, but that means a lot more drywall cutting. Or not using drywall at all, it is after all an interior wall. I can just put masonite up as a backdrop. I have no plans to close in the studs below the lower level, to allow better air circulation. --Randy
Use treated for your bottom plate so you never have to worry about funk.
If it helps you, spline benchwork solves construction challenge on curved backdrop.
Alan
Freelancing the LK&O Railroad
Just visited your web site Alan.http://www.lkorailroad.com/
Some VERY good sources of info on building a layout. For instance this bit on different density foams...
http://www.lkorailroad.com/foam-education/
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
No forced air in my house, except the AC upstairs. The heat is all hot water baseboard. But still need some air circulation, withotu leaving an opening, the area between the penninsula and steps would have just a short section of heat because it doesn't turn and run parallel to the stairs, it goes under the stairs into the laundry room.
Not sure what the spline buys me in regards to placing the backdrop vs cutting out subroadbed from plywood and homasote. Only places on my layout with flat solid decks will be yard areas. Rest is wide open, and I'm not yet convinced that the mess and effort to saw up many sheets of homasote into long narrow strips is worth the effort vs laying things out and taking a saber saw to sheets of plywood. Bad enough that I am already planning to cut all dimensional lumber from plywood - found a nice attachment for a circular saw, since I don't have a table saw nor do I want to try to horse 3/4" plywood on one by myself anyway. With the circular saw I can in a pinch start cutting strips right off the back of my truck, or at least just lay the sheets on some sawhorses and move the saw, not the plywood. Much easier and safer.
rrinker No forced air in my house, except the AC upstairs. The heat is all hot water baseboard. But still need some air circulation, withotu leaving an opening, the area between the penninsula and steps would have just a short section of heat because it doesn't turn and run parallel to the stairs, it goes under the stairs into the laundry room. Not sure what the spline buys me in regards to placing the backdrop vs cutting out subroadbed from plywood and homasote. Only places on my layout with flat solid decks will be yard areas. Rest is wide open, and I'm not yet convinced that the mess and effort to saw up many sheets of homasote into long narrow strips is worth the effort vs laying things out and taking a saber saw to sheets of plywood. Bad enough that I am already planning to cut all dimensional lumber from plywood - found a nice attachment for a circular saw, since I don't have a table saw nor do I want to try to horse 3/4" plywood on one by myself anyway. With the circular saw I can in a pinch start cutting strips right off the back of my truck, or at least just lay the sheets on some sawhorses and move the saw, not the plywood. Much easier and safer. --Randy
Spline benchwork, not spline subroadbed. In the curved backdrop areas.
railandsail Wonder it anyone has done such a test on these metal brackets.I plan on using on the lower deck of my new layout.
Wonder it anyone has done such a test on these metal brackets.I plan on using on the lower deck of my new layout.
Looks like these metal brackets can take quite a load....quoted as 1200 lbs per pairhttp://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-18-in-x-16-in-White-Heavy-Duty-Shelf-Bracket-14835/202824731
I'd be happy if they accept a quarter that load.
railandsail I've seen were 1/2" PVC pipe was fashioned into a spline type roadbed, and I have even considered such a method for building my helix roadbed. But I am now leaning against this in favor of a dbl-layer Masonite material. I believe I have also seen some long rectangular shaped PVC/vinyl trim pieces (1/8" thick, 3/4" or 1" wide, 8 or 10 feet long) sold at HD? This could make spline roadbed , but would end up being quite a bit more expensive than the Masonite.
I've seen were 1/2" PVC pipe was fashioned into a spline type roadbed, and I have even considered such a method for building my helix roadbed. But I am now leaning against this in favor of a dbl-layer Masonite material.
I believe I have also seen some long rectangular shaped PVC/vinyl trim pieces (1/8" thick, 3/4" or 1" wide, 8 or 10 feet long) sold at HD? This could make spline roadbed , but would end up being quite a bit more expensive than the Masonite.
Another gentleman has found that PVC trim pieces that might be fashioned into spline roadbed
1/4" hardboard (masonite) spline works, but the stuff is heavy. For my Siskiyou Line 2, I'm planning to use PVC moulding that comes in 1/4" strips 3/4" wide. It's $2.52 per strip, and it will take 5 strips to make full width roadbed for HO flex track, so its $11.25 per 8 foot length of spline, or about $1.40 per foot. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Royal-Mouldings-6578-1-4-in-x-3-4-in-x-8-ft-P... But it's very lightweight. It's also pretty dimensionally stable to temp changes -- much better than wood products in humidity changes. Joe Fugate
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Royal-Mouldings-6578-1-4-in-x-3-4-in-x-8-ft-P...
But it's very lightweight. It's also pretty dimensionally stable to temp changes -- much better than wood products in humidity changes.
Joe Fugate
The only thing close to this I can find in my HD are these:
https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.pvc-trim-732-in-x-1-12-in-x-8-ft.1000421387.html
https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.pvc-door-stop-38-in-x-1-14-in-x-7-ft.1000421400.html
Suffice to say the price is not that appealing, but Canadians love to be overcharged over, and over again. It's our way of being meek while turning the other cheek to be slapped over. @#)($!%
Was your search online, or at the store? I had a hard time finding them online as well,...just remember having seen them at the store.
That fellow that found them online is pretty resourceful.
I know what you mean about some of the Canadian pricing and availabilty. I just spent the month of Aug at a friend's second house up in Lunenburg, NS. Delightful weather, and delightful little town.
A lot of the stick trim at HD, whether wood, composite, or vinyl/pvc, is inventoried only locally because HD has a high loss margin on cut outs / saw off pieces. I've had to go to the physical store to find it, versus the online store front. If you're going to be purchasing a significant amount of materials, register as a Pro, and take advantage of the extra savings.
FWIW, the garage door trim comes as thin as 1/4 inch, 3.5" wide, and in a 12 foot stick. My local HD has this for around $9.00 per piece. It's made of PIC, extremely flexible, and can be cut on a standard table or chop saw.
Its strong enough that it holds screws with no stripping, and can be glued with Liquid Nails or similar.
If I were to be making spline roadbed I'd look at that, and consider ripping it in half to have a 1/4" thick x 1.75" tall strip. Essentially giving you two 12 foot long piece for $9.00.
For a 2" wide spline youd need 4 pieced ripped in half. Around $36. This would run approximately 12 linear feet at a cost of $3.00/foot - plus fasteners, adhesive and your choice of riser/support.
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Starting to understand why hardboard is so popular?
$12.00* sheet of hardboard yields 25 strips 1.75" x 96". For 2" wide spline you would need 11 layers, essentially 2 lengths per sheet of hardboard or 16' of spline. Cost = $0.75/foot.
The cost could be reduced even further by using 2 layers of hardboard each side with chunks of 2by in between for spacers. Final cost something on the order of $0.25/foot.
* Canadians adjust accordingly
For me, at least, the temperature swings and constant humidity fluctuations make me not a fan of hard board.
Even trimming out our house post renovation was a chore because of time of year and trying to acclimate lumber was futile...
Most of my reading/research on the use of Masonite hardboard has me convinced that it is not as 'affected' by humidity and temp as one might believe. It appears to have many succesful applications.
Of course you don't want to submit it to direct water contact, and if you intend to ballast it with wet water you better be careful about 2 things;1) the glue you use to bond it together
2) maybe go the additional step and seal it some paint
Just went back and reread this really good presentation.How to -Masonite Spline Subroadbed
Pine Wood Lathe Spline(from another forum site)
I used 1/4" x 1 7/8" x 16' pine wood lathe. I rip it down the middle and get two 3/4" pieces from each one. I used vertical supports with a nail in the top to hold the lathe in place while I laid out the roadbed. Once I was happy with the way it looked, grade right and was going I started the lamination. The best thing about the pine wood lathe is that it creates the easements for you. It is extremely strong and very quiet, even without the roadbed. And the wood lathe is a lot cheaper than Masonite and cleaner than homasote.
It is extremely strong and very quiet, even without the roadbed. And the wood lathe is a lot cheaper than Masonite and cleaner than homasote.
railandsail Most of my reading/research on the use of Masonite hardboard has me convinced that it is not as 'affected' by humidity and temp as one might believe. It appears to have many succesful applications.
That has been my observation as well.
My hardboard backdrops were installed butted together and finished as sheetrock with liberal use of compound in some areas.
Michigan humidity varies considerably from ~50% to ~95% with a typical day being ~85% in the morning and ~55% by evening. Ocassional sub 50% and 99% do occur.
After 5 years the backdrop shows no signs of cracking at the joints or contour mapping over compound areas as would be expected if the hardboard was significantly changing size.
With regards to the cost, I figure if the PVC spline roadbed is easier to handle and lay down then the investment is worth it. Not to mention it would outlast anything else on the layout and probably take more beating than wood.
I'll have to make an "expedition" trip to the local HD and just browse through the aisles, noting items that could be used on the layout here and there.