Atlas code 100 turnouts

[Water Level Route]

riogrande5761

Peco code 83 are nearly 2 x the price of Atlas code 83 (#6 turnouts). MBK price for Peco $25.99, MBK price for Atlas $13.99 and MBK price for ME is $18.99.

Can't argue that one at all.  However, the OP and I are both using code 100 with price points that are much closer.  Seems when I started my new layout (about 2-1/2 years ago) to go with Atlas code 100 and a reliable device for operating them like caboose ground throws vs Peco code 100 with their built in over center spring, it was basically a wash price wise.  If I build my next layout in code 83, I would give the ME a serious look over Peco based on the price differences you brought up.

[riogrande5761]

richhotrain

The one thing that I really like about Peco turnouts is the spring on the throwbar. If the Peco turnout is readily accessible, you can throw the points with your finger, no ground throw or machine required.

Rich

I don't own any, but I've read that ME code 83 turnouts also have the spring on the throwbar so you can flick them manually like you do the Peco, and they are $7 cheaper and reportedly quite good. 

While I will likely re-use a lot of the turnouts from my current layout on a future layout, I plan on trying the ME turnouts in the future.  I re-used a bunch of Atlas code 83 turnouts from a previous layout in my current yard, and have added additional Atlas code 83 using the newer Custom Line which seem to have replaced the old #6 turnouts. 

The old Atlas code 83 #6 turntouts had tie bars sticking out on both sides and the diverging route had a straight tangent on the end; the newer #6 turnouts have a short throw bar on one side only and the diverging route is curved all the way to the end of the rail.

 

[riogrande5761]

Water Level Route

In my experience, Atlas turnouts are okay, but not great, and required fiddling with them to get them reliable. My troubles seemed to revolve around those darn rivets that hold the points becoming too loose, the switch machines not holding the points tightly enough (self inflicted by using the atlas machines vs something better), and the points needing filing. I didn't dump them wholesale right away though. I bought a single Peco and replaced my most troublesome Atlas switch. I was sold. When a move presented the opportunity to start fresh, I went with all Peco insulfrog turnouts and have been very happy. To be fair to Atlas though, many of my old switches had been subjected to multiple moves and layout rebuilds, I'm sure incurring some damage along the way. However, I have noticed a marked improvement in a lack of derailments on my new layout that I certainly cannot attribute to better track laying skills! :-D I have several turnouts directly connected to the ends of curves that used to give my Atlas turnouts fits, but the Peco ones handle them flawlessly. Just my experience.

Yes, to a degree, you get what you pay for.  If you've got the scratch to buy a lot of Peco - say you needed 40 #6 turnouts for a sizable layout, thats an extra $480 to get Peco code 83 vs Atlas code 83 and an extra $280 over ME turnouts.  As noted by Rob, with little effort, Atlas can be made to run flawlessly too.

Peco code 83 are nearly 2 x the price of Atlas code 83 (#6 turnouts).  MBK price for Peco $25.99, MBK price for Atlas $13.99 and MBK price for ME is $18.99.

[richhotrain]

riogrande5761

Peco turnouts seem to be better out-of-the box than Atlas but they are nearly twice the cost.  I have been tempted to start collecting them for a future layout but again, the cost is major and many like the MicroEngineering turnouts which are considerably less expensive, so I may go that route.   

My brief love affair with Peco turnouts has ended.  During the prolonged absence of Atlas turnouts on the market a few years back, I had no choice but to find an alternative, so I went with Peco Insulfrogs.

Yes, they are nearly twice the cost of Atlas, and they are also more fragile. If you are not extremely careful, the rails on the tail end can come loose from the plastic ties that hold the rails in place. That can also happen with Atlas turnouts, but the Atlas turnouts are at least a bit more rugged.

The one thing that I really like about Peco turnouts is the spring on the throwbar. If the Peco turnout is readily accessible, you can throw the points with your finger, no ground throw or machine required.

Rich

[riogrande5761]

My final conclusion is that Atlas turnouts are defective or junk right out of the package!

No, the problem likely lies elsewhere.

wp8thsub

 

Turnouts from any brand are not truly plug and play devices.  They all need some degree of tuneup for optimal performance.  My layout has dozens of Atlas code 100 and 83 turnouts that deliver derailment-free operation thanks to a few minutes worth of filing and fitting for each one.

Same here.  Back in the 1980's and 1990's, MR magazine had some article on tuning turnouts which inluded filing a bevel in to the points to avoid wheels catching the edge of the points and derailing.  Since reading that article, I've taken jewler files and filed the points of my Atlas code 100 turnouts.

In addition, it takes more than having things in gauge to ensure derailment free running.  Improperly tuned equipment will not stay on the track even if the track and wheels are entirely in gauge.  Wheelset quality, proper truck motion, coupler movement, and other considerations all affect operation.  You need to have smooth rail joints, and track that's free of vertical and horizontal mislaignment.

The OP needs to make sure he is following the above as well.

Peco turnouts seem to be better out-of-the box than Atlas but they are nearly twice the cost.  I have been tempted to start collecting them for a future layout but again, the cost is major and many like the MicroEngineering turnouts which are considerably less expensive, so I may go that route.  That said, Atlas turnouts can be made to work very reliably and are not junk.

 

[Water Level Route]

In my experience, Atlas turnouts are okay, but not great, and required fiddling with them to get them reliable. My troubles seemed to revolve around those darn rivets that hold the points becoming too loose, the switch machines not holding the points tightly enough (self inflicted by using the atlas machines vs something better), and the points needing filing. I didn't dump them wholesale right away though. I bought a single Peco and replaced my most troublesome Atlas switch. I was sold. When a move presented the opportunity to start fresh, I went with all Peco insulfrog turnouts and have been very happy. To be fair to Atlas though, many of my old switches had been subjected to multiple moves and layout rebuilds, I'm sure incurring some damage along the way. However, I have noticed a marked improvement in a lack of derailments on my new layout that I certainly cannot attribute to better track laying skills! :-D I have several turnouts directly connected to the ends of curves that used to give my Atlas turnouts fits, but the Peco ones handle them flawlessly. Just my experience.

[mobilman44]

Well, may I get on the Atlas train............

I have a good 50 Atlas turnouts on my layout, all customline, with a few #4s, and the rest #6s and #8s.  They all work beautifully and have for years.

That said, older ones could be finicky with DCC (shorting out some locos as they crossed), and some types had frog flangeways too deep (fixed with a tiny strip of styrene.  The new #8s do require (for me anyway) power to the frogs of course.

Turnouts do need TLC.   You don't want a curve immediately on the point end and the gauge needs to be checked.  I also file down the points just a tad to prevent picking by some of the lead trucks of steamers. 

All this addresses the turnouts, but of course the problems could be with the locos and rolling stock as well.

 

[richhotrain]

TheK4Kid

I do have some of my steam engines that never derail on these switches, but others do. My BLI T4's all derail on some of my Atlas switches.

Not sure what a T4 is. Do you mean T1?

TheK4Kid

I have checked the rails for kinks, etc. My diesels never derail on these switches, just some of my steamers and some of my Bachmann heavyweight passenger cars. I have read of so many "fixes" or "tuneups" on Atlas turnouts, it about drives me nuts! Two local experts told me get rid of your Atlas turnouts , never ever use Atlas switches ( these guys have 30 and 40 years experience). But on here, some guys seem to swear by them and others have the same problems I have.

I hate to challenge a model railroader with 30 to 40 years experience, since I have only been in the HO scale side of the hobby 13 years. But, I have to reiterate that I find Atlas Custom Line turnouts to be excellent and nearly 100% trouble free. I have nearly 70 Atlas Custom Line Code 83 and Code 100 #6 turnouts, and I have yet to toss one out. I used to blame the turnouts but, inevitably found flaws in my track work (flex track) leading into the turnouts.

TheK4Kid

 

I appreciate the different inputs you guys are giving me.The switches are properly mounted .One problem switch is just after a 22 inch radius curve.

 

In my experience, when a "faulty" turnout is right at the end of a curve, there can be problems but the problems can be attributed to the track preceding the turnout, not the turnout itself. I finally resolved to remove all of my curves, solder the rail joints, and replace the curves on the layout. Removing the kinks at the rail joints greatly improved performance and greatly reduced derailments. Also, you have to be certain that the track feeding into the turnout is perfectly straight.

TheK4Kid

I have been told also to add some weight to the tops of the leading trucks on some of my steamers. I also noticed on two Atlas switches, the rivets holding parts of them together are somewhat "loosey goosey".

Yeah, I have been told that too. At one time, I went nuts adding weight to the pilot trucks and to the trailing trucks on steam engines. I even wrapped solder around the axles of the trucks. Once I fixed my track problems, I no longer needed those weights which made no real difference in the first place. The sheer weight of most HO scale steam locomotives should be sufficient such that additional weight on the trucks is not necessary.

TheK4Kid

I have a new Bachmann 765 steamer that when it runs with no freight cars or passenger cars it never derails. But put a string of cars behind it,, it derails on one particular switch.

That is not an uncommon problem with steam engines. In my experience, the reason for that occurrence is that there are problems with the rolling stock, not the steam engines. Couplers and wheelsets on rolling stock can exert a pulling effect, causing the steam engine to be tugged at, resulting in the engine trailing truck to derail and sometimes pulling down the rear of the engine causing the pilot truck to lift up off the rails. The solution is to fix the rolling stock.

TheK4Kid

This evening one of my "old timer" friends came by and looked at several of my switches, and found no problems on the approach to the switches giving me the worst problems, but told me "just quit using Atlas switches and replace them with Peco switches" He agrees with me that Atlas turnouts are junk, and I got a email from a club member over in Pennsylvania who said Atlas switches are junk and they never use them on their club layout,

I just simply have to disagree. Atlas Custom Line turnouts are not junk. They may require some maintenance depending upon the nature of the problem, but as I already mentioned, the problems are more likely attributable to the track leading into the turnout as well as the rolling stock.

TheK4Kid

 

I have some guys telling me to never fasten an Atlas switch down firmly in place, more or less let it float to others who say make sure they are securely fastened in place.

I find that "floating" turnout is a myth when it comes to performance. Turnouts are intricate pieces of track work with moving parts. Turnouts require a stable basis and they should be secured to that base. Otherwise, turnouts do not remain level and even across the rails.

TheK4Kid

 

I can vary the approach speeds and a steamer won't derail, come around a second time at the same speed and it derails. 

The reason for this apparent inconsistency is attributable to what goes on before the steam engine reaches the turnout. Trouble shooting can be challenging and time consuming when this inconsistency occurs. What I do is to watch the steam engine before the turnout, not at the turnout. Inevitably, one or more wheels derail somewhere before the turnout, and then I have to find the cause. It could be the pilot truck, the driver wheels, or the trailing truck. The question is, which and why.

You have done a good job so far in evaluating the problem and communicating that problem to us. Don't give up and don't toss your Atlas turnouts.  Find the problems and fix them. Incidentally, you may also notice that similar problems occur with your diesels. Usually, four axle diesels will traverse turnouts where six axle diesels have problems.

Keep us posted.

Rich

[TheK4Kid]

I do have some of my steam engines that never derail on these switches, but others do. My BLI T4's all derail on some of my Atlas switches.

I have checked the rails for kinks, etc. My diesels never derail on these switches, just some of my steamers and some of my Bachmann heavyweight passenger cars. I have read of so many "fixes" or "tuneups" on Atlas turnouts, it about drives me nuts! Two local experts told me get rid of your Atlas turnouts , never ever use Atlas switches ( these guys have 30 and 40 years experience). But on here, some guys seem to swear by them and others have the same problems I have.

 

I appreciate the different inputs you guys are giving me.The switches are properly mounted .One problem switch is just after a 22 inch radius curve. I have been told also to add some weight to the tops of the leading trucks on some of my steamers. I also noticed on two Atlas switches, the rivets holding parts of them together are somewhat "loosey goosey". I have a new Bachmann 765 steamer that when it runs with no freight cars or passenger cars it never derails. But put a string of cars behind it,, it derails on one particular switch. This evening one of my "old timer" friends came by and looked at several of my switches, and found no problems on the approach to the switches giving me the worst problems, but told me "just quit using Atlas switches and replace them with Peco switches" He agrees with me that Atlas turnouts are junk, and I got a email from a club member over in Pennsylvania who said Atlas switches are junk and they never use them on their club layout,

 

So there seem to be  wide variety of responses that they can be "tuned uP' to get rid of them!  I have several other Atlas switchs along straight stretches, and my engines and cars will make 60, 70, or 100 passes just fine, then suddenly derail. It is frustrating!

 

I have some guys telling me to never fasten an Atlas switch down firmly in place, more or less let it float to others who say make sure they are securely fastened in place.

I can vary the approach speeds and a steamer won't derail, come around a second time at the same speed and it derails.

The same with some of my freight cars..

[wp8thsub]

TheK4Kid

I have checked my wheel gauges and theyall are in specs.

That's surprising.  Most Atlas code 100 #6 turnouts are very wide in gauge at the points, so much so that code 88 wheelsets can fall off the rail when negotiating the diverging route.  They sometimes have other gauge issues as well.  The flangeways tend to be wide.

My final conclusion is that Atlas turnouts are defective or junk right out of the package!

Turnouts from any brand are not truly plug and play devices.  They all need some degree of tuneup for optimal performance.  My layout has dozens of Atlas code 100 and 83 turnouts that deliver derailment-free operation thanks to a few minutes worth of filing and fitting for each one.

In addition, it takes more than having things in gauge to ensure derailment free running.  Improperly tuned equipment will not stay on the track even if the track and wheels are entirely in gauge.  Wheelset quality, proper truck motion, coupler movement, and other considerations all affect operation.  You need to have smooth rail joints, and track that's free of vertical and horizontal mislaignment.

Given the type and severity of the problems described, I suspect there's a lot more going on than turnout issues.

For awhile my rolling stock will go through the tiurnouts just fine whether the turnouts are open or closed, then suddenly derail.

What are you using to keep the points in place?  Ground throws?  Machines?  Are the points kept all the way against the stock rail when the ground throw or machine is thrown?

Which turnouts would you guys with experience recommend Shinorah or Peco?

I usually do not recommend Shinohara turnouts to modelers who are not experienced with troubleshooting.  They have their own manufacturing issues that render portions of them out of gauge and/or crooked through the closure rails.  Many of them are made with wide gauge through the frogs and/or points, and can require a fair amount of work to get them reliable.  The wide gauge around the frogs isn't readily correctable, so you have to tune with the goal of minimizing wheels bouncing across the guard and wing rails.

Note that Shinohara code 83 have dead frogs and are DCC friendly (they are sold under the Walthers brand).  Their code 70 and 100 turnouts have live frogs that require appropriate gapping.

Peco have a reputation for being easier to use, but will still not be perfect without tuneup.

[MisterBeasley]

I have to agree with the responders.  I have several Atlas #6 turnouts, and the only one that causes problems is the one where I was not careful and I ended up with a vertical kink.  It causes my longest steamer to derail because of the long, inflexible wheel base.  This is entirely due to my tracklaying.  The turnout itself is fine.

[richhotrain]

Randy, the OP said that he has Atlas Custom Line #6 and #8 turnouts.

Atlas Custom Line turnouts sometimes have slightly raised metal frogs which can be problematic, especially with steam engines with their overly active pilot trucks and rear trucks.

But, I have to say, owning nearly 70 Atlas Custom Line Code 83 and Code 100 turnouts, that these are highly reliable turnouts.

When steam engines derail on Atlas Custom Line turnouts, the problem is usually attributable to the track work leading into the turnout or, in other cases, the lack of a stable base below the turnout.

It is not uncommon for a steam engine to pass over the same turnout multiple times without derailing and, then, suddenly, the steam engine derails on the next pass. Usually, this is because the pilot truck wheels have already left the rails, sometimes one or more driver wheels have done the same thing, and even the wheels on the rear truck.

Make sure that the track work leading into the turnout is straight, not kinked or angled. Make sure that the turnout is stable and secure, not floating above the roadbed. And, make sure that the point rail is tight against the stock rail. Also, make sure that the turnout lies flat, not one rail higher than the other.

Do the steam engines derail at lower speeds or only at higher speeds?

Are the problematic turnouts right after curves?

Do all the turnouts cause problems or just some of them?

How long has the layout been in place?  Any recent modifications?

Rich

[rrinker]

 Which Atlas Coe 100 turnouts do you have? The Snap Track ones are 18" radius and it is no wonder most steam locos won't go over them. The Custom-Line #4 has a rather small substitution radius and again a steam loco will probably fail - my 4-8-4 will not reliably negotiate a #4. Going VERY slowly it can mostly make it. The #6 is plenty and I ran many locos over them even at warp speed without problems. And now they have #8's which are bigger still with a more gentle divergence. I've used nothing but Atlas for years with no problems.

 I AM going with Peco. Electrofrog. Mostly because they have a larger variety of turnout sizes including curved. I've tried handlaying and it's just not for me.

                            --Randy

 

 

[slammin]

IIRC the plastic frogs on the Atlas turnouts are the problem, but I can't remember if the flangeways are too deep or too shallow. I'm sure someone with a better memory will chime in. I do know the repair is fairly simple.

[TheK4Kid]

Hi everyone,

My layout is 6 feet by 24 feet.I have Atlas code 100 turnouts, some are customline #6 customline #8 and several other Atlas turnouts.

I have a total of 14 turnouts

I wish I had never bought any of them because all I have ever had is problems with them

I have checked my wheel gauges and theyall are in specs.

I have checked my track gauge specs. Everything is zero-zero-on.

Many of my steam enegines ( Ihave 26) will derail, as do many of my passenger and freight cars.

For awhile my rolling stock will go through the tiurnouts just fine whether the turnouts are open or closed, then suddenly derail.

I have bought several pairs of brand new Atlas turnouts and replaced the troublemakers, only to have the same problem with brand new turnouts.

My final conclusion is that Atlas turnouts are defective or junk right out of the package!

I am tired of them and simply won't spend any more time on them!

I have read about them on here, worked on them to improve them, but finally have decided to take them all out and replace them.

I have decided to replace all 14 turnouts with either Peco turnouts or Shinorah turnouts.

They will all be insulfrog  turnouts.

I don't care to deal with electrofrog problems.

I use NCE DCC on my layout which has never given me a problem.

Which turnouts would you guys with experience recommend Shinorah or Peco?

I have looked at Tony's Train exchange which seems to have decent prices on Peco .