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Kato - N Scale - Layout - Pros and Cons for an HO Scale Guy

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Kato - N Scale - Layout - Pros and Cons for an HO Scale Guy
Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, August 24, 2016 11:20 AM

I keep thinking and planning to replace my current HO scale layout with an HO scale "dream layout".

But, I also keep thinking about how cool a Kato-based N scale layout would be.

Twice the layout based upon the smaller size. Kato seems to offer reliable track work, nicely engineered engines, good looking rolling stock.

Aside from the smaller scale, what I see as the biggest disadvantages of N scale are the lack of road names and far fewer structures to meet my needs.

I would like to hear from anyone who converted from HO scale to N scale, pro or con. 

And, for those who have not converted from HO scale to N scale, why not?

Rich

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 24, 2016 12:20 PM

Rich,

the smaller scale is not really a disadvantage, unless you gor for super-detailing of your locos and stock. You need to adjust the viewing height, i.e. bring that layout up to the level of your nose for the best viewing.

Todays´s N scale stuff is nicely detailed and as reliable as HO scale. Kato locos are among the best performers. Kato N scale is foolproof, offers a great variety of different radii and track sections, but no flex track. The plastic look can easily be improved, although you need a lot of patience for that.

MR has presented a number of fine N scale layouts, and the Salt Lake Route was certainly among the best.

I still have my mini-modular N scale layout built with Kato track and it is much more reliable compared to what I have built since.

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Posted by cuyama on Wednesday, August 24, 2016 12:21 PM

richhotrain
I would like to hear from anyone who converted from HO scale to N scale, pro or con. 

The majority of folks I know who are modeling in N scale now modeled HO previously (as I did). N scale wasn't practical when I started, but I moved to it in the late 1980s as better products appeared.

Posting your question on a forum with a higher percentage of N scale participants, such as The Railwire or Trainboard, might provide a more meaningful response. N scale comments here tend to be of the "damning with faint praise" variety.

For me, N scale is the choice because of limited space -- and today's N scale runs great.

Tags: N vs HO
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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, August 24, 2016 1:10 PM

Sir Madog

Rich,

the smaller scale is not really a disadvantage, unless you go for super-detailing of your locos and stock. You need to adjust the viewing height, i.e. bring that layout up to the level of your nose for the best viewing.

My current layout is 36" high and if I build the HO scale dream layout, I would make it 40" or 42" high for better viewing.

If I were to build an N scale layout, I would have to decide how high to build it. I am 6' tall.  Any suggestions for the best height?

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, August 24, 2016 1:12 PM

cuyama

 

 
richhotrain
I would like to hear from anyone who converted from HO scale to N scale, pro or con. 

 

The majority of folks I know who are modeling in N scale now modeled HO previously (as I did). N scale wasn't practical when I started, but I moved to it in the late 1980s as better products appeared.

Posting your question on a forum with a higher percentage of N scale participants, such as The Railwire or Trainboard, might provide a more meaningful response. N scale comments here tend to be of the "damning with faint praise" variety.

For me, N scale is the choice because of limited space -- and today's N scale runs great.

 

Thanks for those comments, Byron.  Lots to think about.

Rich

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 24, 2016 2:11 PM

richhotrain
If I were to build an N scale layout, I would have to decide how high to build it. I am 6' tall. Any suggestions for the best height?

The best layout height depends on:

  • your height
  • are you sitting down or standing when operating the layout?
  • depth of your layout

Choose a height in which your layout is as close to eye level as possible when "running your trains"!

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Posted by RideOnRoad on Wednesday, August 24, 2016 2:32 PM

This response fits into the "for-what-it-is-worth-from-a-relative-noobie" category.

I did not make the move from HO to N, but started in N with Kato engines and Unitrack. (I wanted to run long trains.) The trains are nearly bullet-proof. The track is nearly bullet-proof, however, you are limited to the curves and lengths that are available from Kato. While there are many options, it does tie your hands somewhat. I ended up give the Unitrack to my grandkids and building current layout with flex track. If I had to do it all over, I would go with the flex track without reservation.

Richard

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 24, 2016 2:35 PM

richhotrain

I would like to hear from anyone who converted from HO scale to N scale, pro or con.

 

 

Rich,

I had a large HO scale layout at our previous house.

When I knew we were moving I made the decision to change to N scale because I knew I'd have a smaller layout.

I've been very happy with that decision.

I have Kato and Atlas locomotives.The Katos are best, but they all run well.

The rolling stock that's available now is finely detailed and there's a great deal to choose from.

I decided to go with Peco code 55 track. It's more difficult to work with than Unitrack would be, but I like the look and the ability to put the track exactly where I want it to go.

To me, the single biggest advantage is being able to do so much in a space that wouldn't allow for much in HO.

If you haven't tried it already, you may want to do what I did.

I got a piece of plywood about 3 x 4 feet and put a simple loop of track with a siding on it. I got some equipment and ran it to see how I liked it.

Once I decided the move was right for me I began to acquire more equipment.

Let us know what you decide.

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, August 24, 2016 4:22 PM

Sir Madog

 

 
richhotrain
If I were to build an N scale layout, I would have to decide how high to build it. I am 6' tall. Any suggestions for the best height?

 

The best layout height depends on:

  • your height
  • are you sitting down or standing when operating the layout?
  • depth of your layout

Choose a height in which your layout is as close to eye level as possible when "running your trains"!

 

I am 6' tall. I cannot imagine a layout height higher than 48".

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, August 24, 2016 6:29 PM

I was wondering about the limited selection of Kato track. I use flex track extensively on my current layout, so I have no problem there.

But, I was hoping to hear better reports on the Kato Unitrack.   Sigh

Rich

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Posted by MARTIN STATION on Wednesday, August 24, 2016 7:38 PM

Hi Rich,

    I switched to N from HO due to space limitations and use Kato Unitrack. Yes there may be some limitations to Unitrack compaired to using flex track, but if you look at the Salt Lake Route you can see they were able to put together a really impressive layout. I like using the whole Kato system with the power pack and accessories and really like it although I am still in the building / doing some more planning stage, I find it easy to set up and take down. Kato locomotives are the best and I have yet to find one that disappoints me, I can't say that about any other brand and I have 29 of them. Just start small to give it a try and if you don't like it you will still have some really nice track that can be easily set up and taken down anytime.

Good luck!

Ralph

P.S. Try googling Kato track on n scale fourms and you will find a lot of q&a about what you maybe seeking, hope this helps.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, August 24, 2016 8:00 PM

richhotrain
And, for those who have not converted from HO scale to N scale, why not?

When I was young and stupid I made the change from American Flyer to HO.  HO seemed to give me more options for trackage and looked less toy like.  I can't make a similar jump to N scale.  No logical reason, it just looks too small for me.

One thing I've noticed from our senior members here is that we all get a little shaky as we age and we can't see quite as well.  Working on smaller stuff is harder.

Henry

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, August 24, 2016 8:21 PM

BigDaddy

 

 
richhotrain
And, for those who have not converted from HO scale to N scale, why not?

 

When I was young and stupid I made the change from American Flyer to HO. 

LOL.  So did I.  Why did we do that?  ConfusedConfused

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, August 24, 2016 8:37 PM

MARTIN STATION

Hi Rich,

    I switched to N from HO due to space limitations and use Kato Unitrack. Yes there may be some limitations to Unitrack compaired to using flex track, but if you look at the Salt Lake Route you can see they were able to put together a really impressive layout. I like using the whole Kato system with the power pack and accessories and really like it although I am still in the building / doing some more planning stage, I find it easy to set up and take down. Kato locomotives are the best and I have yet to find one that disappoints me, I can't say that about any other brand and I have 29 of them. Just start small to give it a try and if you don't like it you will still have some really nice track that can be easily set up and taken down anytime.

Good luck!

Ralph

P.S. Try googling Kato track on n scale fourms and you will find a lot of q&a about what you maybe seeking, hope this helps.

 

Martin, thanks for those comments. Very informative. I took your suggestion and have been checking in on some N scale forums and watching some Youtube videos on N scale layouts.

Rich

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 25, 2016 12:43 AM

richhotrain
But, I was hoping to hear better reports on the Kato Unitrack

Don´t let anybody fool you - Kato Unitrack is a winner and if I were to build another N scale layout, I´d use it again!

 

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Posted by rrebell on Thursday, August 25, 2016 9:32 AM

One must look at what makes you happy in the hobby. If you like super detailed scenery and rolling stock, then HO is one place you might like because some things just can't be scaled down much further, the more detailed you want, the higher up the ladder you must go. Next look at operations, the inverse is the way that one works as the less running space you get the larger the scale. HO is the most popular because it is kinda the tipping point in both directions. Now I am not saying you can't have a fantastic layout in N scale but some things disappear at that scale, in fact if I was to move I have been toying with the idea to go to 0n30 because of the things that disappear in HO scale.

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 25, 2016 10:40 AM

Will you be changing your nom de plume to richNtrain?

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Thursday, August 25, 2016 10:44 AM

If I was planning to go into N scale I would go all Kato rolling stock - no question.  If I was planning to use sectional track I would prefer Kato in either HO or N scale.  Kato produces top-quality products - consistently top quality.

Of course, my Kato N scale would be 1:150 Nj scale, not 1:160 US prototype N scale.  While the scale might change, my preference of prototype won't.

So, why am I standing pat on HOj 1:80 scale?  Because to duplicate what I already have in Nj would require me to re-mortgage my house!

Realistically, if I ever change scales it will be in the opposite direction.  Age-weary eyes and arthritic fingers would be more comfortable with On762 than with N-anything.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - in twice-N 1:80 scale)

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 25, 2016 11:03 AM

richhotrain

But, I was hoping to hear better reports on the Kato Unitrack.   Sigh

Rich

 

 

Rich,

I think if you asked which is better, Kato Unitrack or flex track, you'd get a lot of posts with varying opinions that really wouldn't end up telling you anything except there are arguments for both.

I spent quite a bit of time considering which to use before making the choice to go with flex track. I'm convinced that, for me, it was the right decision.

The Peco code 55 I chose is a little tedious to work with because there's a rail embedded in the ties for strength. That makes it more difficult to do curves.

But, like any flex track, after a little while you learn what to do to get it to work and after that it's no big deal.

The other option would be to use code 80. I haven't worked with it myself, but I'm sure there are others on this forum who have and would be able to provide some feedback.

Perhaps you could get a bit of Unitrack and flex and try them out.

Obviously, the Unitrack is simpler to use than flex, but I wouldn't jump into it for that reason alone.

In the long run, I'm sure you'll probably be happier with the one you think looks the best.

 

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Posted by angelob6660 on Thursday, August 25, 2016 11:26 AM

You can use both Atlas and Kato track together its called conversion track KA-20045 instead of using one type of track. I have Atlas code 55 from various train sets and train shows to make my unitrack longer. The rails are (will my eyes they're) look the same and same height, width.

The only freight cars they make are Maxi I/IV, Bethgon Coalporters, containers, Auto Rack, and a mixed freight. Passenger equipment is Amtrak Superliner I, Amfleet I/II and Baggage cars.

Kato track is easily to handle to put together and apart. I have 12" (from a Amtrak train set) 13 and 15 inch for a door size layout to run a Conrail theme or modern BNSF/UP era. 

I can't comment on switches because I don't any. I just have straights and curves to have a long oval.

Modeling the G.N.O. Railway, The Diamond Route.

Amtrak America, 1971-Present.

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, August 25, 2016 11:28 AM

To answer the second question, I do not plan to convert from HO to N scale.  I think the advantage of N scale is the ability to run long trains through sweeping vistas or cities, attractive in its own right, but its not my primary interest.

HO provides the blend of space and detail that goes well with my short train switching interest.

As my need for reading glasses increases, I'm more likley to switch to O scale.  I've seen some of the "hobby quality" highly detailed O scale stuff, and its amazing....

..and expensive!

- Douglas

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 25, 2016 11:38 AM

Doughless
As my need for reading glasses increases, I'm more likley to switch to O scale. I've seen some of the "hobby quality" highly detailed O scale stuff, and its amazing....

I ventured into O scale (On30 to be precise) for the same reason and had to find out, that the larger the scale is, the greater the need for detail is. Don´t you believe that this detail is any bigger than in any smaller scale. Things you can omit in N scale can be represented by a single small piece in HO scale, but need to be composed of several even smaller parts in O scale. In G scale, you even have to think about using actual scale nuts and bolts instead of castings!

Adding to that, don´t forget that most of the detail is visible in photographs alone, not when you look at your layout from a normal viewing distance.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, August 25, 2016 12:27 PM

I've been into N years ago and liked it but switched back to HO in the mid-late 1980's because key engines were available in HO and not N.

During the past 15 years my close up vision has gotten worse - normal for middle ages and N being smaller, thats a disadvantage.  N scale as others have noted is generally less detailed and some of the loco's can have pretty nasty big gaps or openings in the pilots.  I don' care for truck mounted couplers either.  In summer these are the things that hold me back from N:

- small size is harder for me to see with my older eyes
- bigger gaps in the pilots of diesels and ends of freight cars to handle the swing and size of couplers.
- less detailed - I'm spoiled with the details on Moloco, ExactRail and Tangent rolling stock, and those details are big enough for me to see too.
- I hate truck mounted couplers.

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 25, 2016 12:59 PM

I am not surprized to see the age old sentiments against N scale being repeated here, as this is more or less an HO scale alone forum. There are a few who dare to sneak in N scale topics, but the attention they get is minimal.

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Posted by tin can on Thursday, August 25, 2016 1:14 PM

I'm too fully invested in HO scale to convert to N scale.  I do have some N scale equipment, as does my daughter.  We run it on the dining room table with Kato Unitrack.  It is a winner.  She also did a school physics project demonstrating DCC with Unitrack, Unitrack, and her DCC equipped engines.  Funny, her classmates wanted her to crash the two engines together....

Remember the tin can; the MKT's central Texas branch...
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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, August 25, 2016 1:43 PM

Sir Madog
I am not surprized to see the age old sentiments against N scale being repeated here, as this is more or less an HO scale alone forum. There are a few who dare to sneak in N scale topics, but the attention they get is minimal.

I'm not surprised either, but then again, I see the same ol topics repeated here with non-N-Scale stuff month after month as well - it's a bit wearisome as an exercise to teach the long suffering patience.

That said, MR forum could benefit greatly if they could segregate into a few scale forums because, as you rightly pointed out, HO is dominant as it is in real life and thats what people tend to assume unless some one states their scale clearly, and that almost never happens.

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, August 25, 2016 2:04 PM

Sir Madog

Will you be changing your nom de plume to richNtrain?

 

LOL.  Hadn't thought about that.

Rich

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Posted by cuyama on Thursday, August 25, 2016 2:14 PM

riogrande5761
HO is dominant as it is in real life

... and so it begins

Dominant? I guess it depends on one's definition of the term. I think if you look at any number of measures, HO is certainly the largest proportion in real life, but perhaps double or triple the size of N scale -- not 10X or something.

And the large number of N scalers on other forums shows that this forum happens not to be proportionally reflective even of online activity. 

Personally, I think Balkanizing a forum into scale divisions (or era, or geography, etc.) closes out a lot of discussion and potential learning.

No offense meant, but HO scalers who say they "can't see N scale" and simultaneously deride its "lack of detail" seem to be arguing both sides of the same issue.

Tags: N vs HO
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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, August 25, 2016 2:42 PM

Just to be clear, I am not interested in an HO versus N debate.

What I am considering is a move from HO to N in order to gain scale space in the same footprint as my current HO layout.

I see Kato as high quality in terms of track, locomotives, and rolling stock.

So, what I am trying to determine are the pros and cons of such a conversion.

Rich

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, August 25, 2016 3:07 PM

I don't follow N scale much. How does distance scale in N scale....At what scale distance would the typical modeler be viewing trains on his layout? 

My concern would be the apparent lack of flex track compared to HO. 

- Douglas

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