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Electrofrog Peco turnouts short circuit

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  • Member since
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  • From: Vancouver, WA (SP&S country)
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Electrofrog Peco turnouts short circuit
Posted by Capt. Brigg on Friday, July 22, 2016 10:36 PM

I have several electrofrog Peco turnouts, which short out the straight through leg when the points are thrown for the diverging leg. There are two small wires running from the closure rails to the points in the frog, connecting both inside diverging rails. Since power is applied to the straight rails further down the line, they short out when the switch it thrown for the diverging route. I also have one older turnout that someone has modified by cutting the small wires and linking the stock rails to the points. I don't have room under this part of the layout for a frog polarity switch and plan to use hand throws for the switch.  Is this how to fix the shorting problem? It seems like I have read something about this somewhere, but can't find a solution. Thanks for any suggestions. Capt. Brigg, Pacific Cascade Railway in HO gauge.

Capt. Brigg Franklin
USCG Licensed Marine Officer
Certified crazy train chaser
CEO: Pacific Cascade Railway

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 22, 2016 11:59 PM

Peco Electrofrog switches don´t need to be modified at all when they are installed and wired properly.

A brief decription and diagram can be found here

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, July 23, 2016 12:08 AM

Hi Brigg:

Basically the solution is to isolate the turnout from the rest of the track. There is lots of good information here:

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, July 23, 2016 4:35 AM

As Dave points out, it is necessary to insulate any rail that runs "frog-to-frog" say at a passing siding or crossover.

It took me quite a while to completely understand the wiring rules for power-routing turnouts.

My second layout used Shinohara power routing turnouts and there were two essential rules I had to follow.

1) All feeders to the turnout must be before the points.

2) Any rail that runs frog-to-frog has to have an insulated gap and any feeder downstream of the frog rail has to have a gap somewhere between it and the frog.

The Wiring For DCC information is good but might get a bit overwhelming at times.

Here's another site with a good explanation. Scroll down to Non-Isolating Power Routing turnouts for a demonstration.

http://www.dccwiki.com/Turnout

And another that specifically deals with the Electrofrog:

http://www.dccwiki.com/PECO_Electrofrog

Hope that helps. I feel your pain! Bang Head

Ed

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  • From: A Comfy Cave, New Zealand
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Posted by "JaBear" on Saturday, July 23, 2016 5:29 AM

Further to the previous excellent responses’ I use this as a reminder to simple Bears...

img784 by Bear, on Flickr

Cheers, the Bear. Smile   

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, July 23, 2016 5:47 AM

Take a look at the photos on this web site. It illustrates the shorting problem and where to cut gaps to eliminate the short.

http://railwaybobsmodulebuildingtips.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-peco-electrofrog-circuitry.html

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, July 23, 2016 7:09 AM

Although You have gotten good advice from other posters, they did not address Your immediate problem.....before You go modifying them with cutting jumpers etc. Just add two insulated rail joiners to the two rails after the frog and Your problem will go away. That is Your immediate problem. From what I gather from Your description. JaBears diagram shows where to put the insulated rail joiners. Peco electro frog turnouts are power routing so when You switch to the divergent route the frog becomes - negative in relation to the rail down the line which is positive...the insulated rail joiner prevents that from happening. After that is working, if You have trouble with wheels bridging the points and creating a short, then You can work on cutting jumpers. I see no reason to do all that if all You need is the insulated joiners.

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

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  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, July 23, 2016 7:42 AM

In other words, cut gaps or place insulated (plastic) rail joiners on the two inner rails beyond the frog as illustrated in the link that I provided to you.

http://railwaybobsmodulebuildingtips.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-peco-electrofrog-circuitry.html

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
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  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, July 23, 2016 7:58 AM

Capt. Brigg

I also have one older turnout that someone has modified by cutting the small wires and linking the stock rails to the points. I don't have room under this part of the layout for a frog polarity switch and plan to use hand throws for the switch.  

Incidentally, when wired and gapped properly, a Peco Electrofrog does not need a "frog polarity switch" because the frog is already powered and the power routing feature of the Electrofrog takes care of matching the proper polarity to the adjacent rails.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by RR_Mel on Saturday, July 23, 2016 8:48 AM

richhotrain

Take a look at the photos on this web site. It illustrates the shorting problem and where to cut gaps to eliminate the short.

http://railwaybobsmodulebuildingtips.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-peco-electrofrog-circuitry.html

Rich

 

Thanks for posting the link to that site Rich, very good info!
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
  • Member since
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  • From: Vancouver, WA (SP&S country)
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Posted by Capt. Brigg on Monday, July 25, 2016 12:14 PM

Thank you all for your great posts and links. There are also some great videos on youtube, especially if you speak Russan. Wink I do have several six axil GE U30C engines, and will be watching for shorts at the point rails. Since these two switches are at the far end of my staging yard and act as an excape route for engines pulling trains into the staging area, they are easily accesable, and can be modified if necessary (see layout schematic). If I isolate the point rails I will be looking to buy the Peco switch machines with SPDT electrical point switch. Again thanks for taking your time to share information. Capt. Brigg

Capt. Brigg Franklin
USCG Licensed Marine Officer
Certified crazy train chaser
CEO: Pacific Cascade Railway

  • Member since
    March 2015
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Posted by SouthPenn on Monday, July 25, 2016 12:49 PM

Shinhara power ruting switches can be "fixed" the same as the Pecs. Islate the rails leaving the frog from the track.

If the power routing switch deversin rute is ging to a stub ( dead end ) track, you can leave it connected to the switch. This way the stub track has no power unless the switch is thrown. Great for yards, especially if there are engines with sound in them.

South Penn

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