Still planning my layout, but hollow doors covered in foam keep getting suggested. Why? (N Scale)
If I am going to use foam as a base and build legs and everything to hold it up to my desired height, why use a door and not a sheet of plywood??
The ply can be unstable with expansion and contraction, but the foam layer would be stabilize it. Right?? Why deal with a 2" thick hollow door???
I went to my local Re-Store and looked at 36" interior doors this morning. I can buy plywood much cheaper than used, banged up doors. I'll still have to build legs to support it and foam for my terrain. Just trying to justify this concept I guess.
Chris
Although I am not into N scale, I would think the door would provide a rigid platform without having to build a framework to give the same support to a piece of plywood, yet be big enough for a nice sized layout.
Rigidity for a given weight is probably the main benefit. The sandwich construction of the door is very strong for its weight. To get the same kind of stiffness for an equal length of plywood would require either building a frame to support it, or using an excessively thick (and heavy) sheet of plywood.
The main drawback to a door is lack of access underneath for wiring and switch machines. You can always rout out openings in the underside of the door for that, however.
ETA: Ninja'd by FloridaFlyer.
Steve S.
Don't know,, I remember doors being talked about for N for a long time,prehaps before the common use of foam came into play.
They were cheap,lite, and could be had easly, now foam has the same traits,plus easer to work with.
I assume some think you must have wood/steel in your bench work to be strong enuff.I disagree, 2in. foam can span 24 in, and stay stable and even more, I have one spot at 32in with out issues,can be cut with a knife,reattached with caulk, need a hole ? find something round with a point ,push down,
BTW you don't need anything under the foam the money saved on plywood could go else where
just thinking
This is a table for a model RR ,not a stage for a five piece band
Most use the door because they want the strength and the light weight because they are going to use saw horses or such or want a clear middle area under the center of the layout. Expantion and contraction will not be a problen on a single sheet of foam so the support is not as important in this regard. It could if you intend to expand to a larger area in future but only if you chose the wrong construction method. My preference is to make the frame out of 1x4 and no ply at all but then my layout is 30' long (solid wood expands mainly in the width and thickness, not in the length but ply expands in length and width).
If you are close to a Habit Restore, you might find both doors and possibly insulation. Ours has lots of doors of various quality and prices.
Just checking prices ar Lowes, a brand new hollow door, plain, no holes drilled and NOT prehung, is about the same price as a sheet of plywood. Of course the plywood is bigger, but it's also much heavier. If you are building somethign permanent, it may not matter, but if you want something moveable, the lighter weight of the door will make a big difference.
A used door, or even a new one that has been damaged, should go for a lot less than a sheet of plywood.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
When I was a kid, I had a sheet of painted plywood that curled up one side (that was the extent of my model train interest being a teenager). Perhaps that can happen with other plywood sheets, but not a sturdy door.
Doors require a bit of navigation to ensure they don't stuff off the walls. You might consider putting foam corner guards (the type used on furniture). This way you avoid running into sharp corners.
Hollow-core doors are stiff for their weight and are more resistant to damage from impact (foam can dent or break somewhat easily at the edges). Extruded (blue or pink) foam is also a little harder to obtain in mild-winter parts of the country (but not impossible).
But either works. Wire drops are a little trickier in either one compared to plywood.
30"X80" or so is also a handy size for an island-style layout in N scale -- and easier to transport than a full sheet of plywood.
For my money, best of all for smaller island-style layouts is purpose-built waffle-style benchwork from thin plywood -- but that's definitely more work. I build my small standalone switching layouts waffle-style from nominal 1/8" plywood.
In my experience, it can take longer to ponder benchwork than it would take to just build it.
Good luck with your layout.
Byron
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Byron's and others (for the most part) takeaway can be summed up as you can use plywood OR a hollow door OR just foam. There are advantages and disadvantages to each, but combining them is just not necessary and usually complicates things for a portable layout the size you want.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Interesting question and interesting answers!
Model railroaders tend to build a benchwork which can withstand a herd of elephants stomping through the train room and, frankly, I find it sometimes questionable, whether this is really necessary in all instances.
I my quest for alternative layout foundations, i.e. benchwork, I have come across a Swiss guy building a sectional Z scale layout, using 3mm hardboard and 4 " extruded foam (XPS or Styrofoam) for the benchwork. It´s a rather simple, quick, inexpensive and rigid way to build a benchwork for the smaller scales. How that could be scaled up to HO scale or bigger I don´t know.
Here is a video on how he does it:
Narration is in Swiss German, but the pictures speak for themselves!
rrinker Just checking prices ar Lowes, a brand new hollow door, plain, no holes drilled and NOT prehung, is about the same price as a sheet of plywood. Of course the plywood is bigger, but it's also much heavier. If you are building somethign permanent, it may not matter, but if you want something moveable, the lighter weight of the door will make a big difference. A used door, or even a new one that has been damaged, should go for a lot less than a sheet of plywood. --Randy
IDK what they are selling you in PA, but here a 1/2" sheet of plywood (not OSB. $12.00) is just under $15.00. A 36"x80" hollow core door is just under $60.00. That is why when I saw used doors for $20.00 I had to ask why.
2" foam is just under $30.00.
I'm leaning towards 1"x3" lightweight frame, luan (1/8" ply) bottom and 2" foam. Should be light and cheap to build. I'm moving this summer so I wont worry about the legs yet, but a box frame to hold the foam will get me moving and still allow me to move it to my new place.
I can't believe no one has said one of the biggest reasons: it requires no cutting. The slab is ready to be used as is.
The door would be cheaper in the long run.
Getting the materials added up with plywood, 2x4's, 1x3's, nails. It will get expensive fast.
It's a modernist size layout that can be used with 13-15 inch radius curve, for modern day railroading.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
NittanyLion I can't believe no one has said one of the biggest reasons: it requires no cutting. The slab is ready to be used as is.
Plus you can just lay it across 2 saw horses and your benchwork is done. This makes a quick and easy way to get started in N scale.
Enjoy
Paul
Don't know if they all do it, but the last 2 outing to Home Depot I have picked up free scraps of plywood from back where they cut wood for customers. One piece was 1/8 x 27" x 8' birch, yesterday they had at least a half dozen 1/2 x 1' x 8' pieces of the lesser quality plywood.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Hi sir madoc
I don't know about a herd of elephants but must take at least 1 only 1:1 locomotive I do tend to over engineer a bit.
anyway back to topic and op
I believe its because it is quick light and easy to use a door and in "N" scale quite a reasonable layout should fit on a door.
On a club layout I have seen 3 doors used for the staging yard of an OO UK outline layout so doors do work as a layout base or part layout base.
Not quite sure how you would perminantly attatch legs to a hollow door or how foam scenery would go at quieting it down and it would be a pain to get wiring through.
Straw method as sometimes used with foam??
regards John
Why not use oriented stand board.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriented_strand_board
It's stronger and has better water resistance. Usually is cheaper than plywood too.
SouthPenn Why not use oriented stand It's stronger and has better water resistance. Usually is cheaper than plywood too.
Why not use oriented stand
Goosetown rrinker Just checking prices ar Lowes, a brand new hollow door, plain, no holes drilled and NOT prehung, is about the same price as a sheet of plywood. Of course the plywood is bigger, but it's also much heavier. If you are building somethign permanent, it may not matter, but if you want something moveable, the lighter weight of the door will make a big difference. A used door, or even a new one that has been damaged, should go for a lot less than a sheet of plywood. --Randy IDK what they are selling you in PA, but here a 1/2" sheet of plywood (not OSB. $12.00) is just under $15.00. A 36"x80" hollow core door is just under $60.00. That is why when I saw used doors for $20.00 I had to ask why. 2" foam is just under $30.00. I'm leaning towards 1"x3" lightweight frame, luan (1/8" ply) bottom and 2" foam. Should be light and cheap to build. I'm moving this summer so I wont worry about the legs yet, but a box frame to hold the foam will get me moving and still allow me to move it to my new place.
$60 here gets me a solid door - in fact, I'm building a workbench L shaped, using 2 solid core doors as the tops, and each one is $49.95 at my local Lowes. $60 for a hollow door better come prehung. Yes, they have cheaper plkywood here than $35 a sheet, but it's the kind of junk I wouldn't want to work with, maybe OK if putting foam over it and using the full sheet, not doing cookie cutter sort of things. I'm considering using all plywood - for the framing as well, but that needs decent quality 3/4" ply - which is what I was pricing against doors, the 1/2" would need a frame in addition, even in a 30x80 side, it's not going to be self supporting. Neither is 3/4 for that matter.
My previous layout (the sections are still stacked in my basement) was build exactly like that, 1x4 for the side stringers, 1x3 for the cross pieces, 1/4 (1/8 is way too thin) ply, and 2" foam glued on top. The 1x4's on the sides allowed the foam to be partially inset but it would have worked to just have it all sit on top.
angelob6660 SouthPenn Why not use oriented stand It's stronger and has better water resistance. Usually is cheaper than plywood too. I had used oriented stand wood. My piece didn't last long, it wasn't stable and fell apart by the corners. A few weeks later it was crumbling around the center destroying the layout. I never trusted it ever since.
Did you have it supported by anything? You can't just stick 4 legs on the bottom of a piece of OSB or plywood and have it hold up. You also need to stay in from the corners with OSB, there's not much pullout strength for fasteners at the edge.
It was supported by different objects. What ever was free to sit on. We never had enough money for legs, scenery and structures.
I went with 1x4s and 1x3s assembled into rectangles bolted together with bolted on legs and 3/8" A/C plywood screwed to the top with drywall screws. On top of that I glued sheets of 2" Blue foam to build up the scenery. This allows for portablility of the benchwork. Also you can probably walk on it if you need to, and I can mount a turnout motor, signal drivers, circuit boards, LCC nodes any any manner of other digital equipment under the layout because of the plywood layer. Worth the few extra cents per square foot if you ask me. I would not touch OSB with a 39.5 foot pole.
Also if weight or size of plywood is concern, Home Depot (and probably Lowe's will cut it for you for free (up to 4 cuts in my area, 50 cents or so per cut after 4).
Y'all are missing the point: most big box stores have damaged hollow core doors; one side has been damaged in shipping and they can't be sold. Usually they will sell it to you for about $5.00; at least that's how I got my four.
BobL609 Y'all are missing the point: most big box stores have damaged hollow core doors; one side has been damaged in shipping and they can't be sold. Usually they will sell it to you for about $5.00; at least that's how I got my four.
angelob6660 The door would be cheaper in the long run.
I scrounged 17 HCDs of various widths from neighbors doing home remodeling projects. The only cost was my pride as I scavenged their garbage curbside. Maybe nobody saw me.
The lengths do vary slightly, a couple had damaged faces and the room entry ones have holes for doorknobs cut in them, but since I put foam over them, it really didn't matter.