Since discussion has morphed into blending into backdrops...
The track at the rear of the new section will be hidden under a mountain ridge. There will be four lines back there with the one closest to the backdrop a couple of inches below the double-track next to it. The benchwork is built with a large open area in the grid for maintenance access to those tracks. I am thinking of two ways to manage this.
It seems to me that the second option is best, and having the backdrop a few feet behind the visible mountain top might even add to the distance/perspective effect. What do you guys think? This option would certainly be easier to build since I could use the rear access to reach to the front to build the mountain and scenic it.
Huntington Junction - Freelance based on the B&O and C&O in coal country before the merger... doing it my way. Now working on phase 3. - Walt
For photos and more: http://www.wkhobbies.com/model-railroad/
Thanks guys, much appriciated.
Mike
EDIT: Wow ended up at the top of the page, is this like the dinner? If so, I'll buy a drink !
My You Tube
Mike:
I'll second what Walt said about your backdrop. Very well done!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Wow Mike that really looks great! You did get a whole lot of depth into it. There definitely is art to blending the layout into the backdrop.
Walt, your lay out is looking great ! I also used Backdrop Wharehouse to add the city scene in my lay out. I used 2 city scenes, cut them apart, seperating them, some places into individual buildings, with 1/8" masonite, hand painted trees between the layers to give it depth.
Walt
You are making great progress! The bridge is impressive.
I think I do better by focusing on one area at a time.
I knocked out the remaining benchwork over the weekend. Once I got started I was driven to finish just to get all the lumber out of the way. I already have one of the loops up and running, and tested all of my locos up and down the grade. No problems. And I'll admit watching trains go all away around the layout hands-off is very satisfying.
But now the fully scenic'd areas look very small and isolated. And I have this huge barren blank slate to work on. I went this far, but I am not going to build the yard (last phase) until I get caught up with scenery on the sections that are now in place.
I am in a different camp, I have completed benchwork then roadbed then laid track and did wiring and now work on signaling. when signaling is done will start scenery and perhaps buy some good locos, rolling stock and structures.
Perhaps it is easier for me to think about one problem at a time and have fewer tools laying around, but it takes time and patience.
Visit my blog to see progress on my UDTR Model Railroad
http://slavak815.wordpress.com
Some interesting perspectives, and I am happy to hear I am not the only one building in phases. I agree on up-front planning. I design my benchwork with Autocad and use XtrackCad for track layout. And then import the XtrackCad layers into Autocad and overlay the track on the benchwork to make sure cross supports are in the best areas- all before cutting any lumber. Maybe a bit over-the-top, but a benefit of being an engineer with plenty of design experience.
And yes, I agree that testing is critical to success- not just for trackwork but also for construction methods and scenery.
There is one thing about my phased approach that is proving to be a big plus. My plan is pretty ambitious for someone whose previous experience is limited to an unsuccessful 4x8 built 30+ years ago. But by starting with my phase 1 dogbone and completing it to scenery (in some areas) before starting any more benchwork I learned a ton. And carrying that forward.
Even though my phase 2 is much more complex than the dogbone I started with just about everything turned out better. The track flows nicer and there are no dips or clearance issues. The terrain "makes sense" and scenery is much improved. Part of that is from not "building myself into a corner" to start with- and I learned from the first phase what works well and what does not. Everything works OK on my original dogbone but when I get back to it there are a few issues to resolve and improvements to make. Minor mistakes that I would not make now that I have more experience under my belt.
Phase 3 is by far the most complex area of my design- not much of it is level, there is a bunch of hidden track, and access will need to be carefully managed. No doubt in my mind that attempting to build it without having gained the experience on the first two phases would probably have not worked out well. But now I am confident that I can pull it off.
I bought another sheet of ply and some more 1x4's last night and will cut and fit more subroadbed over the weekend. My basement has become a construction area again, but on the plus side I should have a closed loop operational very soon!
I'm building an ambitious multi-deck layout with a lot of track in a less than 350 square foot oddly shaped room. My order of construction was driven by access constraints. I typically build benchwork, roadbed, track and wiring from the bottom levels up and from the walls out. However, my initial construction was a hidden staging yard along two walls, 2-3 inches below the eventual visible part of the upper deck, that served to eventually attach the upper deck to the walls. That track and wiring was dormant for several years until the rest of the layout construction reached that area.
Phase 1 was the bottom hidden staging yard and phase 2 was the benchwork, track and wiring getting the lower deck operational. Some hard shell scenery along the wall of the lower deck and removable sections of scenery above the bottom level staging were done. Phase 3 was finishing the roadbed track and wiring for the climb to the upper deck and the benchwork and roadbed for the upper deck. On the upper deck I did the painted hard shell scenery before installing the track and wiring to get the 'messier' jobs done as early as possible.
I'll probably take a break from several years of 'heavy construction', do more hard shell scenery on the lower deck and enjoy operation while replacing paper signs with actual buildings.
Sometime in the next few years I'll tackle the 'blob' in the middle of the room with lower level staging in Phase 4 and a branch line on the upper level in Phase 5. I'll need to get the heavy construction done before old age catches up with me. Now that I have scenery and rolling stock on the layout, I'll have to move the saw dust generating operations outside.
Grinnell
Hi,
I've built one Lionel (mid '50s), one N, and a few HO layouts, the last one started in 2008. It is about 1/3 finished scenery wise, and everything else is "done".
To some, building the layout is the fun of the hobby, and running trains is secondary (a very close secondary). I fall into this category. To go with that, a layout is truly never finished. There is always something to redo, or add, or maintain. Some consider the process a labor of love.
To me, the start of the layout is the design phase - which includes the trackplan and benchwork, but also the wiring and structure placement and finishing of the room/area that will house it. The time spent with pencil and quadrille pad or computer and software, or autocad - will greatly be rewarded in the end.
Next comes the benchwork, laying of roadbed and track, wiring, structure placement, base scenery, and final scenery and so on. Some do these tasks one at a time, others do them together.
In either case, I would stress two things......
- Test, test, and test again. Problems are much easier to solve upfront rather than after the scenery is in place. And don't think for a moment that a problem will go away on its own or just not matter later on. It will.
- Make sure your level of "good enough" is truly good enough. You will later on regret not doing the best you could have done.
I guess I could add..... "ENJOY". When working on the RR is feeling more like work than fun, take a break - be it an hour or a day or a week or two. The layout will be patiently waiting for you.................
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Thanks, I got Backdropwarehouse.com to make it for me from their stock photos of Elkins, West Va. Still learning how to blend my scenes into it effectively but getting better as I work along.
I am very impressed by your photo backdrops. They do a fantastic job at expending the depth of the scene in a very realistic manner. Are they commercial backdrops or your own photos?
Alright, you guys convinced me so I am back to benchwork and laying track. I knocked this out over the last week or so.
HObbyguy Quite a variety of responses (and yes I read all of them carefully.) Interesting that there was not much reference to layouts that are essentially completed, with scenery. I know there are some out there... wickman I'm a few layouts into the hobby , none ever completed. I build all the benchwork and track tested true. I do much the same way working at a section at a time and when I get bored I do another area but never getting too far from the previous area, I find this works well as it helps with joining them together. I don't think I've seen your layout works but would enjoy viewing your photos. I wish everyone that had a layout would put a link in there signature, would make things so much nicer. Lynn I've been watching progress on your "new layout" thread. You post lots of pictures which I've much enjoyed. As you mention it would make things nicer if there was an easy way to see what eveyone is working on. I've posted a bunch but they are scattered in a dozen different threads and in the gallery. And I don't have a blog or website to link to. So I'll barrage everyone with a bunch of pictures to better frame the discussion. Some of these are already posted elsewhere but here they are in a logical group. Here is what I have been working on the past months, more or less the "center" of my dogbone-style layout, working from left to right. I guess I am more of a modeler than an operator so getting scenes completed is more a priority for me than running a bunch of track. Very happy with the way a lot of the scenes in this area are turning out. And here are the ends of my layout. First my original phase 1 dogbone, which is to the right of the viaduct. It just looks sad to me, screaming for landscaping and buildings, and upgrades to the scenery that I put in a couple of years ago when my modeling skills were not as developed. And to the left, where the world just ends beyond the truss bridge. No problems with any of the track or turnouts- I run trains for at least a couple of months before adding the scenery, and I am very comfortable with electrical work so no concerns there. The question is whether work to the right, and concentrate on getting my original phase 1 dogbone to look more finished like the center section? Or work to the left and build the next section of benchwork and start closing loops? I know the answer comes down to personal preference and priorities, just not sure what mine are quite yet. So interested in how others tackle "the order of things."
Quite a variety of responses (and yes I read all of them carefully.) Interesting that there was not much reference to layouts that are essentially completed, with scenery. I know there are some out there...
wickman I'm a few layouts into the hobby , none ever completed. I build all the benchwork and track tested true. I do much the same way working at a section at a time and when I get bored I do another area but never getting too far from the previous area, I find this works well as it helps with joining them together. I don't think I've seen your layout works but would enjoy viewing your photos. I wish everyone that had a layout would put a link in there signature, would make things so much nicer.
Lynn I've been watching progress on your "new layout" thread. You post lots of pictures which I've much enjoyed. As you mention it would make things nicer if there was an easy way to see what eveyone is working on. I've posted a bunch but they are scattered in a dozen different threads and in the gallery. And I don't have a blog or website to link to.
So I'll barrage everyone with a bunch of pictures to better frame the discussion. Some of these are already posted elsewhere but here they are in a logical group.
Here is what I have been working on the past months, more or less the "center" of my dogbone-style layout, working from left to right. I guess I am more of a modeler than an operator so getting scenes completed is more a priority for me than running a bunch of track. Very happy with the way a lot of the scenes in this area are turning out.
And here are the ends of my layout. First my original phase 1 dogbone, which is to the right of the viaduct. It just looks sad to me, screaming for landscaping and buildings, and upgrades to the scenery that I put in a couple of years ago when my modeling skills were not as developed.
And to the left, where the world just ends beyond the truss bridge.
No problems with any of the track or turnouts- I run trains for at least a couple of months before adding the scenery, and I am very comfortable with electrical work so no concerns there.
The question is whether work to the right, and concentrate on getting my original phase 1 dogbone to look more finished like the center section? Or work to the left and build the next section of benchwork and start closing loops? I know the answer comes down to personal preference and priorities, just not sure what mine are quite yet. So interested in how others tackle "the order of things."
Always appreciate some nice scene's.
Lynn
Present Layout progress
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/290127/3372174.aspx#3372174
I spent a lot of time in the design phase. I use autocad at work and have quite a bit of free time.
On this layout I finished the room first. paint, lights, electric outlets, cieling
Next is benchwork. Start with a nice level place to start. Now I want to get the main lines done around the layout. This will include the staging yard. Then test staging yard for a while.
After this I can work on the towns and scenery as I feel. There are 5 town/switching areas and a main yard that I will build and design as I go.
Different styles of layout require different approaches. So I guess the most important thing is to just do something.
Steve
Sounds like I am the only outlier then.
Guess I'll join the mainstream and concentrate on working to the left, and get the next phase built and the track down on it. But that doesn't mean I won't cheat and spend at least some time on the existing dogbone.
To be honest, my "phased" approach was not planned. Phase 1 was supposed to be the whole thing, but when my daughter went off to college I acquired more space and built Phase 2. After that, I realized I really needed staging so I built Phase 3 to give me both that and a branch line that I decided I wanted. It was more opportunity than deliberate planning.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
It sounds like most concentrate on getting all or most of the track in place and operating before concentrating on scenery. And MisterBeasley and I are more-or-less outliers, building the layout including scenery in well-defined phases.
My plan has four phases, designed using XtrackCad. Getting everything I wanted in my available space would have been near impossible just by winging it. I have around 1-1/2 years of working time in the layout so far. I took over a year off due to job workload and other priorities, but the layout was still there waiting for me when I had time to dedicate to it again.
So the choice remains- move on to phase 3 or go back to phase 1 and work on scenery. This area will have the most structures and buildings, an access liftout to deal with, and also a stream that is built and mostly detailed but not yet filled with "water". So very time-consuming to get it looking nice. Building the phase 3 benchwork and getting the mainline tracks in place on it would go much faster. Without anyone saying so, it sounds like most here would put priority on getting the rest of the track down. And let scenery come afterward.
But that would make the layout mostly a plywood and foam landscape again, with only a relatively small section having a finished look. At least now it is around 50/50.
HObbyguy:
My planning was minimal: Bench work around the walls, double sided peninsula, staging area. Yard to go Here;first town there, with passing track, mine branch here, with switch back, town two over there, with passing track, town three in space left, on pensula, so short runaround.
So I build the bench work, Laid out curves where they should/must go. Put in cork and track with insulated joiners, etc.
First few multi-person operating sessions were very much plywood pacific, with some industries being card board boxes. As problems were discovered they were fixed, including moving track. Then landscaping and new structures came next.
Some day I will learn to post photos, but my layout is complete, but not done.
While only on my 1st layout, I find planning invaluable. I spent a lot of time using a computer program to lay out the track based on room dimensions. Afterward, I built the benchwork and installed the foam road-bed. Track came next and then scenery with wiring last.
Some prefer putting in wiring after laying track but whatever works.
I built all the modules first and had track up and running for the main as fast as possible with only turnouts on the main, went back later and did the sidings and yards. Next I had all the trackwork done. Then I came back with basic scenery, plaster cloth covered foam. Then I did basic zip type earth color everywhere along with basic sky color on the backdrop. Now I had a barren scene with running trains but it looks like a railroad. Next I started to do things like the facia and detailing a few spots and those spots grew, looked a litle weird at fist with bits of forest here and there as I got inspired but it is all growing together and now I am to detailing. My layout is apox. 15x30 dogbone and took 3 years with lots of time off, total time less building bridges and buildings was more like 3 months or less. The detailing and building buildings will take the most time.
I'm now in what I call Phase 3 of my layout. Phases 1 and 2 were built to completion, more or less, before starting the next phase.
For each, I've followed a practice of building the benchwork, including bus wiring, and then laying the subroadbed and track. I power the track and install and wire all the switch machines to the control panel, and then I can run trains. My goal at this time is not so much running trains as testing the track, so I've got an era-confused combination of steamers and diesels all running together.
After that, I start on scenery, working on one scene at a time until it's done. On Phase 1, I worked left-to-right across the layout, while I hopped around from place to place on Phase 2.
wickmanI'm a few layouts into the hobby , none ever completed. I build all the benchwork and track tested true. I do much the same way working at a section at a time and when I get bored I do another area but never getting too far from the previous area, I find this works well as it helps with joining them together. I don't think I've seen your layout works but would enjoy viewing your photos. I wish everyone that had a layout would put a link in there signature, would make things so much nicer.
I did the staging framing 1st and laid and tested the track. I then did the balance of the framing (90') to the other staging, laid track and tested that. Connecting the 2 together. It was all wired, tested before I started scenery. Started 11/2014. Work on it about 15 hours a week.
Here's the current status of my latest portable layout.
1. Benchwork framing, 1x3s with 1/4 luan plywood
2. Add 1/2" foam over plywood.
3. Add folding legs and carrying handles.
Next will be:
Transfer track layout to foam and add cork roadbed
Add track and fasten powerpack, begin wiring
Add uncoupling devices, track and ops testing.
Add roadways, street running.
Begin adding buildings and scenery, ballasting last.
This should bring it to basic completed state, but I would keep tinkering and weathering over time. I figure it will take about a year to get to basic finish, no hurrys.
Have fun with your trains
Hi HObbyguy
Well for me its all the bench work, enough track and wiring to get a train moving.
Once the first train is moving it becomes what ever I feel like at the time.
Completion is in my vocabulary the word finished is not.
regards John
Personally, I think after enough benchwork is up enough to lay some track and run trains, it comes to personal preference.
Myself, I like to run trains, so would get at least a loop of track, then begin to do some other parts of modeling. I may, when it comes to it on my next layout, get all the track down and running, so I can be sure it is all running flawlessly before I bury it or make it harder to fix the rails. Once I get there, I can start working on scenery. If I want to I can work on an area and complete it or do a layer at a time over a larger area. I think it will depend on how I'm feeling at the moment just what I work on. I may have a scene I want to finish or I may just put a layer of color with some texture to improve the overall appearance of the layout.
Kits or trees can be worked on as time permits while building the layout. You can also build just the kits for the scene you are working on, until the scene if finished.
For me it's a bit of what I feel like at the moment. On my current 4'x6' I have "finished" one side. Shaped the foam, painted a small area, added ground foam until that side was covered. Then went back and added trees and more texture to the ground foam. I still haven't put foundations on the buildings, but may go to the next layout before I do. Second side of the layout still is foam and I plan to do some pratice moving water scenes before I go to the new layout or I may pratice there.
Have fun,
Richard
I have built several layouts over the years. For various reasons, none of them were ever complete - only 1 had any scenery.
For me, I want to get the trains running. Because the largest up to now has been 10x24 ft, I have done all the benchwork first. Mainly because I find this part goes really fast. Then I laid track, wiring and testing it as I go.
My current layout has the potential to fill the basement, but I have only done the benchwork for 12x31 ft. Currently I am laying track and wiring it. I am doing it this way because I'm not sure if I want to fill the basement - this may be all the layout I need.
Whenever this subject comes up, I think back on 2 famous layouts. The Gorre and Daphetid by John Allen. It had spectacular scenery but when he died the mainline still had not been completed. And the Canandaigua Southern by John Armstrong, the track was in, but only some scenery - he still had plastic building pieces leaning against cinder block walls along the yard - when he died.
So there's no best way, just what's most important to you.
Enjoy
Paul