Hi, I am planning on making a new layout that will be a HO scale 9' x 9' 8" L - shaped layout with a dual track main line. The track layout will be a L - shaped figure 8-ish design, but it will crossover each other with a bridge. I will be laying 1 inch thick insulation foam (i think it's called polystyrene, the pink stuff). when the track gets to the crossover, the track will dip down to the board and it will have to raise up at least three inches to go over the bridge. I will have branch tracks at each station (which there are three of them) and and I will have a double ended rail yard ( at least 4 tracks) on a separate piece of plywood that measures 4' long by 1' 1". I need to fit as much track as I can on it, but leave enough room either beside the tracks or in between the tracks for industries (coal, steel, etc.). I will be having a ho scale afx slot car track in the city and suburb section, but not in the country. I'm using DC and DC only because I'm sorta on a budget since I'm only 14 and on a $20 monthly allowance, and DCC cost a heck of a lot of money with the system and all the decoders you have to put in the locomotives. I need to make this work because I tore my layout apart because I just wasn't happy with it because it was flat and the track (which I mixed codes of track, which I know is a no-no in model railroading) made locomotives jump and the grades I used were to much for the locos. I would really appreciate anybody's advice on what grades are best for this new layouts do for the trains, what is the most affordable code of track, even some afx car info if you know any (which am having problems with as well). I have my plan drawn out on graph paper and I have a photo of it, but since this type box thing is so ancient, I can't put it in. Thank you for reading this and seriously throw some facts at me.
thanks
CSXman14 I'm using DC and DC only because I'm sorta on a budget since I'm only 14 and on a $20 monthly allowance, and DCC cost a heck of a lot of money with the system and all the decoders you have to put in the locomotives.
Have you seen the Arduino-based DCC system that some guy named Gregg came up with? You could probably build it for about the same price as a DC power pack. You can get Arduino clones for as little as $10. The motor shield sells for about $25, the power source about $10, and a few dollars for a USB cable to connect to a computer. You still have to get decoders, but since you're on a budget you probably don't have a ton of locos to do.
http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/introducing-dcc-a-complete-open-source-dcc-station-and-interface.84800/
Also, it's okay to have different codes of track as long as you make the proper transition between them. There are commercial solutions as well as DIY methods.
Steve S
Ok, thanks for the advice. I think I might look into DCC in the future. I like the idea, it's just expensive and I do have a good number of locomotives, and if I mess up on the decoder installing, I'm screwed. I also have a lot of mixed code track. A majority of it is code 83. I bought some code 100 switches back in the summer, not knowing that most of my track is code 83. When I lay track on this new layout, I will probably keep it at code 83, but only adding the code 100 switches that I bought because track ain't cheap, and I'm not going to waste a good pair of switches. I just bought the polystyrene foam for the board. I want to make sure this layout is made the right way, and looks as good as some of the layouts you see in MR Magazine (except smaller. Some of the layouts they put in the mag are insane).
CSXman14 I have my plan drawn out on graph paper and I have a photo of it, but since this type box thing is so ancient, I can't put it in.
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
He did get a picture of the track plan posted
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
Here's the link to the photo of the track plan
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/m/mrr-layouts/2290626.aspx
[The forum software Kalmbach uses is fussy about direct links from their photo gallery, apparently]
Unfortunately, there are a number of concerns. I don't think this is drawn truly to scale, especially the turnouts. So I think that a lot less will fit than you hope. And it’s pretty ambitious overall.
Additionally, if this is to be against one or more walls, you probably won't be able to reach all of it for construction and maintenance – unless you plan to climb on the benchwork, which creates other issues. Most people prefer to build layouts with less than 30” reach to any point. (If you will have aisle all around, that would help).
As far as grades, most folks find that 2.5% or less works well with a variety of equipment, which takes a significant length of track to achieve. I’m not sure if you can get enough elevation in the sketch you’ve drawn.
If you are building into a corner along two walls, folks often find that it’s more successful wen the layout curves into the corner so that it’s easier to reach more of it. Like this HO layout in an 8’X8’ room.
My suggestion would be to take a step back, think about access, and then try redrawing very carefully to scale.
Best of luck with your layout.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
The layout is up against the wall. It's in my basement and around the layout are shelves, a desk, etc. If I moved it out from the wall for a walk way around the layout, there wouldn't be a lot of room to walk to get to the layout (if that makes any sense). I uploaded a photo of the boards with the foam on the boards. It hasn't been passed yet, but when it is, it should give you guys an idea of what I'm working with. Two of the boards are on fold up tables, while the other is on a kitchen table that was my great grandfather's. Oh, and the curves are 18" radius curves. The inclines I was thinking of using was a 3%, but I was going to spread the inclines out in 1" segments to get the track up to at least 3". I would make a better plan out on a track planning software, but I don't have a computer of my own, just an iPod and an iPad mini (Apple geek). I'm pretty sure they don't make a track planning software for iOS.
If you can't walk around the outside of the layout, then you won't be able to reach what you have drawn so far.
It's very possible to draw to-scale carefully with paper and pencil. That's what everyone did back in the day.
It can be fun to design layouts, but if you build something that won't work very well the hobby can become a source of frustration.
Enlist help if you have too, but try to arrange the stuff in room so that you have space to can walk around the layout. Try different arrangements if you have too.
- Douglas
So it seems that a lot of people don't like my layout design, or at least they don't like that it's up against the wall. So then, what I would like to know is, what should I change? Should I rearange the tables in a different shape? Should I make it into a modular layout instead? What do you guys recommend?
Its not a matter of not liking your plan, its just that the turnouts you've drawn won't fit, so the trackplan you posted will probably not even fit that space. Reach issues are something we are pointing out, but you can certainly build it that way if you like.
Usually, in order to get specific advice, posting a drawing of the entire room helps. That way, the forum can see the obstacles in the room....entry and exit points, etc. We don't know how the tables will fit in the room.
Take a look at Cuyama's Layout Design Gallery, link in his post above, and also look at layouts on line that fit your space. Also our hosts have some good books on layout planning as well as track plan books and if you are a MR subscriber check out the Track Plan Database on this site.
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If you want to keep the yard and sidings level, grades in the neighborhood of 4% , would be required to provide 3" vertical clearance at the crossing. HO
CSXman14_zpst9ehk5ul by Donald Schmitt, on Flickr
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
Those 12 and 15 radius. Curves means short small locos. And short cars
Is it possible to do access panels? I saw the room pics. That is tight. Putting it on saw horses might help with being able too place access hatches. That way you could reach all of it. Access hatches are an old school wayof dealing with that. Many articles on them.
NVSRR Those 12 and 15 radius. Curves means short small locos. And short cars
Revised - 18" minimum Radius: HO
CSXman14_1_zpsr4ru3ofg by Donald Schmitt, on Flickr
CSXman14_N_zpsb4jy6rqk by Donald Schmitt, on Flickr
That yard and sidings just seam to not work very well do they DSchmitt. Maybe better with a stub end yard and a branch line/industrial park and a few sidings on the main. maybe a single main. Those yard tracks just seam to be to short to be any use. Longest yard track being about 2.5 to 3 feet long by the looks of it. What is your thoughts CSXman? Now that it is in a to scale cad drawing. Keep in mind we are trying to help so that it all works for you and doesn't become a disappointment.Shane
I like the idea of just a stub yard. I would probably make one run around track, and I would either make or use one of the tracks as a caboose track. I laid out the track on the yard, and I can only fit one run-around, a three track yard, and a track for a train building. I would have some industries around the yard and on the main line. I laid out the track on the main line and I can use 18" curves. I'm planning on using 4% riser starters to get my trains up to the bridge and back down again. My layout is going to have of course trains, a trolley, and afx cars. The trolley and the afx cars will only be in the city. The city is mostly going to be made up of the places I like sort combined into one. The country is going to be based off of Strasbourg, PA.
That amish farm country is like a time machine when you ride strasburg rr. Always a nice trip. Any industries planned? Think of taking the city trolley amd.makingnit an interurban and have some industries on it to have an interchange sort of thing at the yard?
The trolley and afx cars going from the city to the suburb and back. I'm planning on having a backdrop between the suburb and the country to ad a little bit of distance. I will have a lot of industries in the yard and on the main line. In Lancaster there's a house building company that has a wood yard with a lot of house sections around the yard. Would I need a branch off the main line say if the train had to pick up house pieces? Also, how much room do you need to have a steel industry? I sized up how many tracks I can get on my yard, and I can have a three line stub yard with one run around track and a branch off the yard for an engine house. Would a steel industry ( or at least a steel pick up) fit in this yard? I could also be ok with a coal industry. Would that work better? And I'm pretty sure it's to small for an intermodal terminal (which I see a lot of in PA). If it's not too small let me know because I do like intermodals, like a lot.
Anyone...
I think that the concerns about reach and access remain in your current plan.
As far as industries, steel plants are huge, as you probably know. Smaller electric "mini-mills" based on scrap metal are of a more model-able scope.
In the space you have, you could possibly incorporate a reasonably long pair of tracks for intermodal, but it would probably require a re-design from scratch. And it might trade-off against the mini-mill
It can be hard to prioritize, but if you decide what is most important to you and then re-design the layout around that, you'll probably have a more satisfying experience in the long run.
Good luck with your layout.
I measured how the layout would fit with room to get around the whole entire layout. I would have about 9 inches of walk space around the layout. That's not even enough room to stand comfortably. I see the need to be able to get around the entire layout to like paint and lay track and for maintainance. So, I like the L-shape, but I don't think it's going to work. Tell me if there's any layout designs that you guys can recomend.
The configuration Cuyama posted in this thread would fit nicely in your space. If compleatly accessable from the left side the access opening in that loop would not be necessary.
Annothe possability is a donut configuration. Sheleves around the outside of the space, accessed and operated from a pit in the center. This would require a duck-under or gate (neither of which I like), but if built close to standing eye level the duck-under could be a roll- under sitting in a chair. The shelf on the open side could be wider (more room for yard or industry) than the other three since there would be access from both sides (although this would make access more difficult). To increase the mainline run, the trackplan could be a twice around oval (works best with single track mainline).
I like your idea with the shelves. I think I will do that, but instead I will do more of a modular version. I would do build standard 2' x 4' sections and make a O or a square shape with a space on the inside for me and reachability won't be a problem. My Mom is going to help me move the desk to make a bit more room. I will cut the boards to the segment specifications. I will put the segments on either foldable tables or saw horses. Expenses wise, I might have to get some more lumber, some saw horses or tables, and possibly some more foam. I glued down the foam on the two boards already. I'll have to rip it up without destroying it so I can reuse it. DSchmitt, could you possibly post a picture of your idea. Also, I could use some advice on this project.
Single track twice around with branch line HO
donut3_zpsleosezks by Donald Schmitt, on Flickr
Double track twice around
donut4a_zpszblcvw70 by Donald Schmitt, on Flickr
DSchmitt, I like the double track mainline version. The only problem is I need room to put an afx car track and a 3-4 track switching yard (one of those tracks is going to be a run around track), and at least two stations with branch tracks. Now I know that's a lot of stuff fit on the layout, but what if I made the First loop elivated and the second loop would disappear by going underneath the firest loop tracks, making more room? It would also make it seem like the train has left for a while. Also I have three 2' x 4' fold up tables and one 3' x 5' regular table. Would the entire layout fit on them?
DSchmitt Single track twice around with branch line Double track twice around
Single track twice around with branch line
DSchmitt,
I noticed that your original track plan posts were in N scale? The OP is modeling in HO scale. Are these most recent drawings in HO?