I created a pond using real sand attached with white glue and scenic cement . Realistic water didn't work(duh read the directions) Could I use 100% acrylic varnish to seal the sand before using realistic water?
Could you be a little more specific about what did not work with the Realistic Water?
I use Envirotex Lite to create "water" on my layout. I use sand and other scenic materials "ballasted" in with white glue. I never have problems with it.
I've noticed over the years that a lot of modelers seem to have issues with other water products, but Envirotex Lite seldom gets these "what am I doing wrong?" threads.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Pictures would def help. I'm going to dive into (pun intended) water soon, so any suggestions are welcome as are taboos.
It was very slow to dry and turned milky
You pour the water first, then you add the sand.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
kasskaboose Pictures would def help. I'm going to dive into (pun intended) water soon, so any suggestions are welcome as are taboos.
This was my first "water" project. I was petrified. All this mixing of resins was very new to me. I read a lot of the advice here and began the project, with the realization that if it was a disaster, well, I could rip it out and start again.
I gouged out a pond and a stream bed from my pink foam and coated it with plaster cloth to get a smooth "bottom" contour. I cast a stone bridge for the road over the stream.
I sealed the plaster cloth as best I could with white glue, and painted the pond bed with cheap acrylic craft paint. I added sand and talus, and glued it in place with alcohol and white glue, just like ballasting scenic material. The illusion of depth is produced by graduating the color from light to dark.
Envirotex Lite works best when applied in several shallow pours. I used a bit of that craft paint to tint each layer, again, darker at the bottom and lighter at the top. This adds "optical depth" to the water, making the bottom hazy and less distinct. Each pour takes about 24 hours to set. After the last one, I added the water fowl and shrubbery along the edges.
Woodland Scenics realistic water, apart from the cost, works well. White glue will dissolve in it and make it foggy a tiny bit ... So I seal everything with latex paint. Then gently place sand over it.
Thanks for the thorough explanation. I plan on starting my water project sometime soon, but was weary of making a grave mistake. It seems that I've done all you suggested so far to prep the area.
Could you use Modge Podge instead of Envirotex Lite? If not, where to get the latter cheap?
kasskabooseCould you use Modge Podge instead of Envirotex Lite? If not, where to get the latter cheap?
I've never used Modge Podge.
If you have either Micheals or A.C. Moore nearby, they carry Envirotex Lite. Go to their web site and print yourself a coupon. There is usually one for 40% or 50% off one item. Envirotex Lite is pricy, but with that coupon you save a lot. As long as you wipe the caps after use and keep the two bottles sealed between uses, it has a shelf life in years, so you don't have to use it all at once.
My first attempt at modeling water was with WS realistic water. I was very unhappy with the results. It never really got hard. So, I used Magic Water on top and that turned out great. So I used Magic Water for the remainder of my streams. I did use WS Water EFfects to simulate ripples on my streams.
Grampys Trains My first attempt at modeling water was with WS realistic water. I was very unhappy with the results. It never really got hard. So, I used Magic Water on top and that turned out great. So I used Magic Water for the remainder of my streams. I did use WS Water EFfects to simulate ripples on my streams.
Grampy and Mr. B: Gorgeous work! Would either Magic Water or the Envirotex work for water? I need either to cover a 6-8" wide Roanoke River going through most of the layout.
Yes, I believe either would work.
Envirotex will certainly do the job. I don't know how long the river will be, but the illusion of depth is achieved with paint and bottom preparation, not with thick layers of "water" material.
Envirotex needs to be applied in thin layers. If you pour it too deep, gasses at the bottom can't escape and will harden as bubbles beneath the surface. I try for 1/8 inch per pour.
I like to tint my Envirotex lightly. I use a drop or so of acrylic craft paint in a typical 2-ounce mixed batch. The first pour will be green, blue or black, and subsequent pours are lighter. This makes the bottom of the water murky and obscures the bed, enhancing the illusion of depth.
Mix the components well. I make small batches and stir thoroughly. You don't want to shake the mixture - that would add bubbles. If you don't mix thoroughly, the Envirotex will never harden. I had that happen once. Fortunately, it was the first layer, and adding another layer that was properly mixed fixed the problem. That was on this carfloat casette.
For this one, I painted the base flat black and heavily tinted the water mixture, so it looks like very deep water even though the resin is no more than a quarter of an inch thick.
I didn’t want to use harsh chemicals so I tried something other than envirotex.
I tried Woodland Scenics Easy Water and it was a disaster. You heat it up on the stove and then pour the molten plastic where you want water. When I poured it onto plastic figures they quickly melted from the heat. FAIL!
Next I tried acrylic matte medium. It worked pretty good but not perfect. I did have to go back and add another coat to cover some small cracks caused by shrinkage. It does tend to creep up on objects but that helps it look more realistic.
Most of my lakes and rivers are dry. My lake which has water hasn't been finished yet. Neither has my ocean scene. It makes this pool look even more refreshing...
MisterBeasley Envirotex will certainly do the job. I don't know how long the river will be, but the illusion of depth is achieved with paint and bottom preparation, not with thick layers of "water" material. Envirotex needs to be applied in thin layers. If you pour it too deep, gasses at the bottom can't escape and will harden as bubbles beneath the surface. I try for 1/8 inch per pour. I like to tint my Envirotex lightly. I use a drop or so of acrylic craft paint in a typical 2-ounce mixed batch. The first pour will be green, blue or black, and subsequent pours are lighter. This makes the bottom of the water murky and obscures the bed, enhancing the illusion of depth. Mix the components well. I make small batches and stir thoroughly. You don't want to shake the mixture - that would add bubbles. If you don't mix thoroughly, the Envirotex will never harden. I had that happen once. Fortunately, it was the first layer, and adding another layer that was properly mixed fixed the problem. That was on this carfloat casette. For this one, I painted the base flat black and heavily tinted the water mixture, so it looks like very deep water even though the resin is no more than a quarter of an inch thick.
Lone: Got any room at the pool for me? Those women are quite fetching. Despite being married, I'm not dead!
Mr. B: What great and realistic work! How many pours did you apply? I figure to use two and put fish or other animals between the pours. For mixing, could I use a paint stirer or something else?
I sent you a PM earlier; did you get it?
Lone Wolf and Santa FeI didn’t want to use harsh chemicals so I tried something other than envirotex.
The original "Envirotex" had some nasty evaporative by-products, but all they sell now is "Envirotex Lite" which has no odor. It's sticky, but if it gets on your skin it wipes off easily and causes me no irritation. There is plenty of stuff in the wife's cosmetic case, her cosmetic shelves, her cosmetic drawers and her boxes of cosmetics in the closet and under the sink which is far more unpleasant than Envirotex Lite.
kasskabooseHow many pours did you apply? I figure to use two and put fish or other animals between the pours. For mixing, could I use a paint stirer or something else?
I typically use 3 pours. I like to create an uneven bed with physically deeper parts, so the first pour just fills in the deep spots and has a darker tint. The carfloat model would have been fine with just one pour, but I didn't mix it well and I had to add a second pour to take care of that issue.
I use small wooden coffee stirrers or popsicle sticks to stir the resin mixture. I use a couple of those little medical pill cups, which I found in use as ketchup cups and liberated a few while I was working. These are for measuring, and then I add both resin components to a throwaway plastic cup for mixing.
kasskabooseI sent you a PM earlier; did you get it?
Yes, I did. Sometimes I sound very authoritative, but in truth I know next to nothing about operations. I hope to give it a try once my staging is complete.
I also had a lousy experience with WS Realistic Water. I was planning to fill an open-topped water tank with it (in layers, of course) adding swimmers to the final layers. After waiting for the first 1/8" pour to cure, and waiting, and waiting, and finally setting the project aside, I re-discovered the project over a year later. While the Realistic Water finally seemed to have cured, it had turned dark and murky as though it had absorbed the acrylic paint I used to paint the inside of the tank. The surface was full of dust particles that had been partially absorbed into the surface and so could no longer be removed. Weirdest of all, a detail part that fell into the tank landing atop the "cured" water surface sometime while in storage had sunk into the surface of the water a good 3/8" without actually penetrating the surface. The part lifted out without resistance but left a large divot in the water surface. After at least a couple more years, the divot is now not much more than a ripple. Now, the Realistic Water looks more like (dusty) gray mud than anything else.
On my current layout, I stippled fairly wet drywall mud onto the syrface of my riverbed, let it cure, then gently brushed it with a wet paintbrush to smooth it slightly. I then painted the cured drywall mud with acrylic paints and finished the water surface using Mod Podge Gloss Medium. This river looks quite good and would recommend this technique for most large bodies of water.
I might still try to rescue my water tank project but will definitely need to use something like Envirotex or Magic Water to do so.
Hornblower
One more vote for envirtex light. I tried realistic water on a mountain stream. Like with others it never hardened fully and became cloudy. I have used the envirotex for all other features - a large pond, a river, several ditches and poured over the other stuff. Never a problem.A word of advice, don't forget to place the fish in a middle layer and never place boats, birds etc on top of the final cured pour. Things floating on water are partially submerged. The last pour should be around them not under them.
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
Larak: Excellent advice. Thanks so much. Such a shame that finding painted ducks, fish, etc. for use in waterbodies is difficult given availability in the holiday season. I plan on putting one or two base layer(s), fish or other things on the last layer. Given that I'm using 2" foam, more than one layer is needed. I dont want to give the impression that I have puddles or suffer from drought conditions!
Mr. B: No worries about sounding authoritative. I appreciate the help and humility you continually exhibit.
kasskabooseLone: Got any room at the pool for me? Those women are quite fetching. Despite being married, I'm not dead!
Lol. Preiser makes nice figures, pun intended. Also there's steak on the grill and a keg made from scratch. Happy fourth of July!
p.s. I might try envirotex lite, also the modge podge because I think we already have some.
larakA word of advice, don't forget to place the fish in a middle layer and never place boats, birds etc on top of the final cured pour. Things floating on water are partially submerged. The last pour should be around them not under them.
chutton01One thing that caught my interest was that the author/builder of the layout specifically did NOT set his barge/tugboat/float bridge in the modeled water, but instead places them on top.
That's going to depend on the model. In this scene, I used a "waterline model" which does not have a hull below the water but rather a flat base.
The swimming beaver in my swamp picture above was modified from the original by cutting off the legs and bending the tail out flat to make a "waterline beaver." i wanted it to be swimming on top, mostly submerged, so I placed it one layer below the top and poured around it. Envirotex Lite likes to flow into corners all by itself, so it surrounded the model nicely.
chutton01Anyway, the second part of the Modeling an Industrial District in the current issue of our forum host Model Railroader features the operations around a industrial scene set in 1950s Baltimore waterfront. One thing that caught my interest was that the author/builder of the layout specifically did NOT set his barge/tugboat/float bridge in the modeled water, but instead places them on top.
I think it was because he wanted the barge to be removable in case he wanted to have more than one to rotate cars on and off of the layout.