Is 2.6 to steep of a grade in HO scale? thanks Martin
Okay thanks I'll be running large equipment and some small stuff
Depends. Large equipment (guess you meant locos) doesn't necesarily mean pulling power. How many locos? Will they all be powered or dummy? Are locos 4 axle or 6 axle? Some loco manufacture's have great torque and power at low speeds, others you gotta crank it up. How many rolling stock in your manifest? Will they all meet NMRA weight standards? See, lots of variables.
I have a helix with 22 inch radius, 4 inch rise per loop, which equates to 3.1% grade. Some of my locos hardly break a sweat pulling 10 cars up the helix, other locos need a helper. I realize you didn't say the grade was on a helix, but this should give you some idea whether or not 2.6 is too steep.
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The grade will be a 29' run from staging tracks 9" below the main layout no helix the locos are a cab forward a big boy a gas turbine a DD40AX 6 and 4 axle diesels and 2 F7 ABBA consists all powered units a 2-8-8-2 and 4-8-4 steam engine hopefully these will be able to make the grade Thanks for all the good info Martin
My HO layout is a bit tight so I have a 2.4 % grade to get ab over and under folded dogbone. First loco is Genesis GP9 which handles 3-4 freight cars per axle or about 10-12 cars. A little 2-6-0 can pull 3 or more small passenger cars. So I'm pk with that. I usually consist 2 or more locos so it's workable for me. If doing again I'd try to stay away from 3% but it depends on what you plan to do.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
I have a section of track with a 2.6% grade. It is a full circle ( with some straight sections ) as the track loops back over itself. The circle has 24" radius curves.
Most of my rolling stock is weighted. The maximum workable train length is 34 units including the engines. The length is dictated by the reversing loops.
I can pull the train up the grade with 3 Atlas Trainmasters or 4 Stewart/Kato F units.
I have used a 5 unit consist of Stewart/Kato F units to pull 62 pieces of rolling stock around my layout. This is a real pain as the train has to be broken into shorter sections to use the reverse loops and none of the sidings are long enough to hold the entire train. Even with a turning 'Y' long enough to hold all 5 engines, it is a pain. But was fun doing it anyway.
South Penn
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
mcddhawk4 Is 2.6 to steep of a grade in HO scale? thanks Martin BNSF FAN
BNSF FAN
Mel, while you are discussing Cab Forwards, I am an SP fan too - albiet 1970's and 1980's because I lived in California from around age 7 to 24 between 1966 and 1984). I bought a 3rd run Intermouantain AC10 Cab Forward last month cause I've been wanting to have a steam engine in HO for some time and my wife kindly encouraged me to pick one up (with sound too).
My present layout has a 2.9% grade from staging up to the main level and back down again. How do you think it would do in terms of pulling average cars? You might wonder - why don't you try it? Due to having to remedate water damage to the some of the floor and drywall, the layout has two sections removed for another month or so while I work on restoration.
@mcddhawk,
I had a garage layout with 2.5% grades and two Atlas GP9's could pull about 20 average cars upgrade - any more than that and the wheels would begin slipping. In fact if the train was stopped on the grade with 20 cars, the wheels would likely slip a bit before it started moving. As others have mentioned, much depends on the loco's tractive power (weight etc.) vs. the cars it pulls (how much they weigh, how free rolling they are etc.).
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Hello RRMEL I grew up in the Chicago area my grandpa worked for the CB&Q and my uncle worked the ATSF switching yards so i was always on trains as a child the Superchief El Capitan Zepher etc, my grandfather worked on steam engines so i have a cab forward and big boy (hold your hat) in ATSF what if fantasy schemes i also have a DD40AX in ATSF fantasy paint yellow bonnet And yes that is the Sacramento Railroad Museum as I now live in Lakewood Ca also the bigboy is Athearn and the cabforward is Intermountain
mcddhawk4 I have a cab forward and big boy (hold your hat) in ATSF what if fantasy schemes i also have a DD40AX in ATSF fantasy paint yellow bonnet And yes that is the Sacramento Railroad Museum as I now live in Lakewood Ca
I have a cab forward and big boy (hold your hat) in ATSF what if fantasy schemes i also have a DD40AX in ATSF fantasy paint yellow bonnet And yes that is the Sacramento Railroad Museum as I now live in Lakewood Ca
Did Riverossi or another company paint Cab Forwards in ATSF or was that a custom job?
I visited the Sacramento Museum a couple times, including 1991 Railfair when many steam engines visited.
Although I run a mountain RR which on the prototype had 4% mainline grades and up to 8% on branches. I pretty much stick to 2.5% as a rule on the layout. There are just a few spots with steeper grades by intent and they definitely serve the purpose of restricting operations.
One thing that's important to note is that 2.5% is steep enough to obviously be a grade visually. You need not worry about 2.6% looking like it's going uphill, it'll be obvious.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Goes to show how little I know about narrow gauge - 8% Crazy!
Jim,
That was on the Silverton Northern line from Eureka up to Animas Forks. A single loco typically handled two cars...but they both may have been MTs.
This is an image from the Denver Public Library's Western History Collection of the famous SN snowshed that didn't survive the first slide into it when winter really got going good. It's somewhat mislabeled as being on what is now the Million Dollar Highway, which is actually US 550 between Silverton and Ouray. This road is a county road and you can get between the two towns on it, but only with 4WD...
Snow shed and old County Road, San Juan County now Million Dollar Highway
I'm modeling in N scale and use only steam power, most mallets locomotives.
My maximum grade on my Maclau River are 2.5% on sthraigt track; on curves which are minimum 20", its go on a maximum 1.5%, this allow me to use 19 cars whith cabosse trains on grade whith one loco.
Don't know for HO but beleive its similar.
Hello Rio Grand the locos are all customized
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
2.6% should work OK for most if not all of the locos in your list but if in doubt test first before committing. That's what I did and decided to target 2.0% allowing for some error. So far so good.
Not mentioned, when figuring grades be sure to account for the easements into and out of the grade. Otherwise once you get building your planned 2.6% could turn out to be well over 3% in reality.
Huntington Junction - Freelance based on the B&O and C&O in coal country before the merger... doing it my way. Now working on phase 3. - Walt
For photos and more: http://www.wkhobbies.com/model-railroad/
One thing you could do rather than test test test, which potentially could be a lot of work setting up the tests; you could just do like the real railroads and build to the limitations of your environment. A 2.6 % grade is relatively decent for HO trains and if anything might add some operational interest because you would be forced to deal with the limitations of the grade - which shouldn't be too bad.
As I mentioned earlier, two powered Atlas GP7's could pull about 20 cars up a 2.5 % grade and they were probably average for 4-axle diesels. I'd guess larger, heavier 6-axle diesels could pull a little more. Honestly 20 to 25 car trains is about the maximum length most HO modelers go with - even on larger layouts. Rob Spangler has a fairly large layout with more than one level and I recall he limits most freight trains to 20 cars. You should be fine and at worst you may have to add a little more power.
Consider this: mountain railroads such as the D&RGW had to have power heavy consists at the head end to move freight trains over the many grades, and helpers were also used on heavy trains. In the 1970's - the "Action Road" era, D&RGW usually had 4 or 5 four-axle geeps on the head end of fairly short freight trains to keep them rushing across the system without helpers. It's really cool to watch the Green Frog Rio Grande Odyssey - it really demonostrates the fast frequent train philosophy - no reason something like that can't be a model for running HO trains as a justification.
Mel,
Thanks for answering about the articulateds. BTW, I sent you a pm asking about SP passenger cars in the 50's.
Generally agree that keeping under 3%, preferably no more than 2.5%, it's a matter of adding power to meet the load. This works well with MU diesels.
Steam is a bit of a different thing, passenger ops sometimes even with diesels. This is because the expectation is usually a single loco. You can double-head, of course, but in most cases the prototype didn't . You do want to avoid getting that situation going, so testing is still a very good idea for trains like that.
Despite holding the main grades to 2.5%, it took lots of mods before I could get my brass 4-car San Juan to climb them behind my brass K-28. I changed the car trucks to free-rolling Blackstones. I added weight several times to the loco, being careful to keep it in balance. I releveled/regraded the track at least three times in two different places. After about 15 years, I finally achieved my goal of getting a visually pleasing train up the grade behind the one loco I really wanted pulling it.
Hello thanks for all the good info i've figuired a way to get the grade to about 2.4%you really wont be able to see it as it will be a hidden ramp heading to an under layout staging area but it will have easy access for any derailments or maint.