Hi, I'm new to the forum, and looking to build my first layout since I was a kid. The room I'll be working in is 13' by 12' 6", and I'll be using HO. I'd also like to do someting larger than the standard 4'x8' table.
I'm debating whether or not I should have a donut or an island layout. My concern with the donut option is that there wouldn't be much room for mountains or terrain. As for the size, I would like to make the most of my space availible, without making things too crampt. What dimensions would be best?
Hi SapphireFoxx:
Welcome to the forums!
It would be very helpful if you could post a diagram of the room showing where things like doorways and any obstructions are.
Here are a few things to consider:
- Do you want to have continuous running or would you prefer a switching layout?
- What type of equipment do you want to run, and what era are you contemplating?
- Do you anticipate having more than one operator on the layout at the same time?
- Have you set a minimum radius for your curves?
You could consider a 'U' shaped track plan with return loops at either end, and it would allow you to walk straight into the layout without the need for a duck under or a lift out bridge. If the door is in the center of one wall that would be ideal, but the downside is that the return loops will take up a lot of space.
As for mountains, don't forget that you can go down as well as up to create large elevation changes, and you can do a lot with the back drop to add apparent height to the mountains too. If you are going to do return loops, they provide a great opportunity to build mountains, and you can have your trains running through tunnels to boot. Actually, concealing part of the return loops looks more realistic anyhow. If you want tracks at different elevations the return loops could be made into helices, but again, they will eat room space.
Are you aware of the track plan data base available on this website? If not, scroll up to the black line and select 'How To'. In the middle column you will see the data base.
These are just a few things to consider. Ultimately you have to design your own plan but we will be glad to help.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Here is a non-scale drawing of my layout with a city and small town. The city is over a reverse loop and the hill at the back has two tracks with one being a shut off to store locos and consists.
Roger Hensley= ECI Railroad - http://madisonrails.railfan.net/eci/eci_new.html == Railroads of Madison County - http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ =
The best layout for the space you have is a layout which incorporates your own vision of a layout, the type of operation you like and the setting and theme you wish to see.
In other words, it will be you who has to design the layout as no one else will have that rather personal vision. Of course, we are here to assist and help you along the process.
Here are a few discussions about mountainous terrain on shelf layouts. The first one has some good photos of what people have done.
https://www.google.com/search?q=cs.trains.com+%2B+mountains+on+a+shelf+layout&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=model-railroad-hobbyist.com+%2B+mountains+on+a+shelf+layout
Steve S
Sir MadogThe best layout for the space you have is a layout which incorporates your own vision of a layout, the type of operation you like and the seeting and theme you wish to see.
While it is important to design to ones own preferences, I read the question as one of which layout SHAPE would make the best use of the available space. As long as you are mechanically capable of building a lift/swing/drop section or physically capable of ducking under to access the interior, I can think of no case where an island layout is the best choice. Whether you're running a saddle-tank 0-4-0 switching urban industries or a TGV through the French countryside the donut will always be the best use of the space as it provides the most square feet of layout space, the longest mainline run, the opportunity to use larger radius curves and eliminates the toy-like appearance that comes from being able to see the whole layout from a single point.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
I would agree with other posters that a 4x8 is the least effective solution. I tend to agree with dave that a U shape would be effective. As has been posted,a diagram of your space would be helpful.
Picture yourself in the room. Where would you stand? Where would you like to see the layout and observe the trains running on them?
What I did was to imagine me in my similar space, seven years ago. It was literally in an open corner of our basement. It was 9' X 13.5'. Not generous for some obsververs, but it was to be warm, dry, climate-controlled in terms of humidity, and only a few risers away from dinner. No phone lines to be added, nothing. I just had to imagineer the best way to use that modest space.
I figured that if I wanted a decent main line where the train didn't complete in a slow loop in under 40 seconds, I would have to fold the loop. When I saw the advantage of that concept, the rest fell into place. I needed to run that loop with large radius curves, and that meant on the outside of the space. I had to create a benchwork that would have the trains running as close to the perimeter of that defined volume as possible. The next natural conclusion was that I would have to be at its center...standing in a central operating pit with the trains looping around me.
It meant some careful planning and work. There was a lot of backdrop to paint. I had to consider how to build terrain in such a way that I could have the fold with the needed clearances...unless it was to be countertop flat. To heck with that! I wanted tunnels, a wooden trestle, and rock cuts near the tracks. How does one build a folded loop with the tracks mostly running near the limits of the space? It would mean steep terrain, and close tolerances between things near the tracks on curves and the passing longer rolling stock and steamer cab extensions or their cylinders.
I don't know if that helps you at all, but you have a couple of options: walk around a smaller surface with your back always to the wall in that small room, or use the space to advantage with having a longer main line in mind and accepting that you'll need to have a small access point with a movable bridge to get to the operating location. For me, the decision was easy. The image that follows doesn't show a huge layout, but the imagery it yielded me make the place seem like an entire country.
SapphireFoxxI'm debating whether or not I should have a donut or an island layout. My concern with the donut option is that there wouldn't be much room for mountains or terrain.
see the Layout Vision website, specifically the Why Waste the Space on an HO 4x8? page
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
The more I operate different layouts, the more I appreciate point-to-point layouts. One of the layouts I operate is compact (would easily fit inside a 13' by 12'-6" room) and is VERY fun to operate (check out www.oakhurstrailroad.com). The irony is that Marty designed and built his logging layout long before he ever thought about hosting operating sessions. Running a Shay powered log train from the town of Oakhurst, up the hill to one of the logging camps, back down the hill to the saw mill and back to Oakhurst can take up to an hour of constant train movements and switching puzzles. Add another 6 or 7 trains and Marty easily has a three hour session for three operators. Check out his track plan on his web site and see whether some variation of it would work for you. Also note the easy walk-in access.
If you are more interested in main line runnning and can build a swing gate to allow ANYONE to easily enter the room, I would consider a multi-deck "No-lix" style layout around the perimeter of the room. A terminus with yard/staging at each end plus a few industries along the way would provide lots of operating potential while twice around the room would give you around 80 feet of mainline run. A double track main line would double the action.
Lots of possibilities within the limits of your imagination! The only thing I would highly stress would be to provide EASY access to the room and layout. You will quickly lose interest in your layout if you have to crawl under it every time you want to get in and out of the room. If you want others to visit and/or operate your layout, don't expect them to crawl under the layout either. Whatever track plan you use, keep the aisles at least 30" wide to allow two people to pass each other without knocking stuff off the layout or tripping controls mounted on the fascia. Also keep in mind that car card boxes, throttle pockets, turnout controls and other fascia mounted items will eat into your aisles so adjust the widths accordingly.
One thing I discovered when researching the little known fallen flag short line I model (Santa Ana & Newport) was that the prototype did most of my track planning for me. Once I had decided what parts of the SA&N I wanted to include, I simply had to figure out how to fit them within the available space. My research also allowed me to discover that extending both ends of the SA&N tracks to connect with its main line, the Southern Pacific created a prototypical loop of track around much of Orange County, CA. Thus, my layout includes both continuous loop and point-to-point operations.
Good luck!
Hornblower
It looks like the posts so far have danced around or been very indirect with the answer so I'll get right to it simple and straight with no fluff:
Island layout is the least efficient use of your space as it will be eaten up mostly by walkway isle. The clear winner is donut with the operator in the middle, which affords you the largest layout in the 13'x12.5' space.
The only special consideration you will probably want is a lift out bridge so you can walk into the layout without a duckunder - but the donut is the best basic design for your space in terms of maximizing a model RR running ability, curve radii etc. Really it's the only logical solution.
So basically design the layout as around the wall and make sure the track plan has a choke point where the tracks can cross through the lift out bridge. You should be able to have relatively generous curve radii in that configuration - no reason you can't use 30" or greater radii.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Here's an experimental design I worked up to try and fill a space I've been given. It's about 11 x 10.5 feet but could be made bigger. I wanted a long main line run, and this gives 90 feet. It has 24 inch radius minimum on the longer loop and 31 inch on the shorter loop. The 90 foot loop has a couple gradients to get up and down from a 4 inch height. The small space requires a 2.5 - 3% grade. I wanted a loop with 31 inch for running passenger trains. Sorry the drawing is crude at this point.
http://cs.trains.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/telligent-evolution-components-attachments/13-755-00-00-02-29-05-00/Dogbone-with-loop5.jpg