I see that Home Depot has completely stopped carrying the pink foam, except for 1" thick 2'x2' project panels for $5.48 each (that's $44 for an 8x4, more than 2X the price).
The 3/4" variety is nowhere to be found. My layout depends upon an area raised 3/4" over the plywood base.
I really don't like nailing track to plywood: it's just very hard to nail esp turnouts and I think the foam is dimensionally stable. White glue hold everything together quite well.
Any thoughts? Maybe hoamasote?
NP.
Skip the ply and use 2" foam.
Foam=dimensional stability? Well, not for my uses. Perhaps for yours.
I was asking after more foam (you could ask "Why? But anyway...) at my local real honest-to-god big time building supply palace. They don't carry it anymore. I couldn't get a clear reason. I s'pose if folks in construction just don't want to use it, that'd be a good reason. They can't make a profit just selling to "our kind".
Ed
It what way are you saying foam is not dimensionally stable? Extruded foam has no measurable change with humidity, unlike any wood product. Just ask Chuck, working in the dry heat of Arizona. He uses steel studs and foam because wood just won't cut it.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker It what way are you saying foam is not dimensionally stable? Extruded foam has no measurable change with humidity, unlike any wood product.
It what way are you saying foam is not dimensionally stable? Extruded foam has no measurable change with humidity, unlike any wood product.
Yes. I know it's uneffected by humidity. But, unfortunately, the air inside the foam expands and contracts with temperature changes. And cracks developed in my scenery. Admittedly, it could be possible it wouldn't happen with different "glop"; but it's happened to me, and has been a real problem.
Hello All,
Try Lowe's and the Blue Foam.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Were you using ping/blue extruded foam or white expanded foam? extruded foam that I never tried, could be poor quality. I never had any iddues with pink (Owens-Corning) which, until I saw the green stuff at Lowes, was the only kind I could get around here. No one had blue (Dow). The expanded stuff is made from little beads that are puffed to fill the mold space, pretty much the same stuff used in packaging. I'm not so sure that stuff is suitable even for scenery landforms. It's certainly no good for a track base.
I am probably going to plywood for the new layout, and I will take all the foam off the old layout sections and use it for scenery. As for the OP - if you are gluing track anyway, plywood works the same as anything else. I wouldn't lay track directly on plywood (or foam, for that matter). Glue cork or homasote roadbed (like from Cascade Rail Supply) to the plywood, glue track to cork/homasote.
My informal testing says the quietest operation is from 3 materials of varying density with no physical interface (ie, nails) penetrating more than one layer. The homasote roadbed is available as a subroadbed, wider than typical HO roadbed, so you cna build up proper mainline ballast profiles with two layers of roadbed - I may or may not do this, using plywood as the base, the homasote subroadbed on top of that, and cork roadbed under the track. All attached with latex caulk.
Randy,
I used the blue stuff. As opposed to the pink stuff. 1 1/2 inch thick. Stacked up as necessary.
Incidentally, I found great stuff to glue it together and to the plywood: Glidden Gripper. It's basically super-primer. You've got to put some weights on the joint for awhile, 'til it sets--maybe an hour or two. The next day, anyway, it WON'T come apart. I tried construction adhesive first, but it's way too thick and didn't really bond that well.
Depending on where you live, you may have an Owens Corning store or even a manufacturing plant nearby. You can usually buy damaged pink board sheets directly from them for pennies on the dollar. Most of the damaged sheets are still in pretty good shape for modeling purposes. A lot of the sheets just have corners knocked off or poke holes in them.
I was saying it IS stable ... The pink foam that is. I woulnt want to even try the white (packaging) foam, it's too squishy From the start plus has a foil cover (If you buy the insulation sheets). I will check if I can find the Dow (blue) variety.
I do have a three layer stack and I use Midwest cork roadbed. My usual method is to glue 1" or 3/4" foam to plywood with white glue. Then roadbed goes on also with white glue. Then track with track nails.
Once satisfied with the track work, one can put the ballast down, and it will soak in wetted/ thinned white glue and everything is just so stable on that sheet of foam.
Gonna miss it
Depends on where you live.I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area, and most Home Depots & Lowes have stopped carrying the Pink/Blue foam (respectively) in favor of some extruded white stuff with a metallic sheathing (that's a pain to remove).
HOWEVER!
Find the nearest Home Depot PRO store, and they carry a healthy supply of Owens Corning Foamular 150 (and 250, sometimes).
For example, the HD Pro in Colma, CA has plenty of pink stuff.
Personally, I use DAP clear caulk to secure foam to benchwork (either on ply or on stringers), & caulk again to attach flex track to foam.(And cork roadbed if necessary between, i.e. mainline)
In foam, track nails take more work, press down on ties (pinching rails), pop out, or allow flex to slide.Personally I see no advantage, but whatever floats yr boat.
Hope you find the foam.
M.C. Fujiwara
My YouTube Channel (How-to's, Layout progress videos)
Silicon Valley Free-moN
I had seen references to DAP caulks, but being a caulk virgin until recently I kept using glues. "Clear Caulk" is it? I will get me some.
Colma isnt too bad from Palo Alto, but the link you sent does not show any 8x4 sheets. Just the project boards ... But when I force to the Colma store returns 0 results for Fomular. I will call them and see.
Re: my stack up: the pain of putting in nails in plywood is just not bearable for me and I am too new to do a one-shot-glue it down like you guys. I use Midwest Cork roadbed and that holds the track nails well for me for a few weeks until I am ready to ballast.
When I built my last railroad I was living in Scum City (Houston, TX) and I used blue foam. I looked in the yellow pages under plastics and all the other things you could possibly think foam could be under. The plastics place I found had 4x8 sheets in every size you could possibly use. I got 1/2, 1, 2, 4 and 6" thicknesses. Much nicer than the crap HD and Lowes were selling at the time. They also were willing to make good deals on some of their damaged stuff too so that's a plus.
I also used carpenters wood glue to glue it all and it was holding together well when the railroad was disassembled for the move.
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
Keep trying other places as MC, Roger and others recommend. Pink is Zero CFCs etc, so wouldn't think it's completely gone in your area. HD has some weird stocking patterns at times.
Having used homasote, if you're used to foam, you'll have a hard time adjusting your methods. It's a really different product...and a lot heavier, too.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
mcfunkeymonkey Find the nearest Home Depot PRO store, and they carry a healthy supply of Owens Corning Foamular 150 (and 250, sometimes). For example, the HD Pro in Colma, CA has plenty of pink stuff.
I just checked at Lowes' website and they carry 2"x4'x8' sheets of Dow R5 insulation board for $39.98 a sheet.
Dow R5
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
The white expanded styrene; with the foil on one side, is light.
Getting the foil off of one side can be an exercise in patients.
It is good for making scenery but...
One thing I noticed about the white stuff is that it dissolves under solvent based paints.
I learned this the hard way when I built a viaduct out of this material only to have it disappear before my eyes when I tried to paint it with rattle can (solvent based) primer.
Since that expereince I now apply a layer of latex based paint or starch based paper mâché to "protect" the white foam. I'm not sure if the weight savings of the white foam with a covering is worth the time and expense over pink or blue foam.
Where I live I don't think it's legal to pour a foundation without some sort of insulating foam (pink, blue or white). Everyone from the Big Box stores to the mom & pop hardware stores carry several versions of the same sheet foam products from the various manufacturers.
I swear that each town has a stipulation in the building code as to what color to use!
That being said, the foam you are searching for is available no matter what the "professional" at HD or L's say.
Great suggestions on sources from everyone!
I especially like the prospect of going to the factory for "seconds" because we're going to poke holes and make random cuts in the stuff anyway. Great find!!!
That's a common use for it - outside a foundation wall for insulation before the dirt is backfilled. A construction site might net you some broken pieces to use for scenery.
Pretty sure most solvent paints and glues will attack the pink and blue stuff as well. It's just that the effect is different. The expanded foam surrounding a big screen tv in teh box is probably an ounce of actual material, so when a solvent dissolves it, it pretty much disappears - a long time ago when i discovered that I on purpose dripped some model cement (the old stringy stuff in a tube) on the foam packing for a car model I had, just to make big holes in the foam.
NP01 Randy, I was saying it IS stable ... The pink foam that is. I woulnt want to even try the white (packaging) foam, it's too squishy From the start plus has a foil cover (If you buy the insulation sheets). I will check if I can find the Dow (blue) variety. I do have a three layer stack and I use Midwest cork roadbed. My usual method is to glue 1" or 3/4" foam to plywood with white glue. Then roadbed goes on also with white glue. Then track with track nails. Once satisfied with the track work, one can put the ballast down, and it will soak in wetted/ thinned white glue and everything is just so stable on that sheet of foam. Gonna miss it NP.
I use the white stuff, peal off the foil. Have never had a problem with it but places that don't get cork roadbed get coated with plaster cloth, then zip textued, no problems at all.
I really don't like nailing track to plywood: it's just very hard to nail esp turnouts and I think the foam is dimensionally stable. White glue hold everything together quite well. Any thoughts? Maybe hoamasote? NP.
Have you tried using Atlas track nails? My in-progress layout (linked below) uses no foam or adhesives, but rather track secured with Atlas track nails or Micro Engineering spikes. The track is either layed directly on half inch homasote that was painted (to help seal it against moisture and give a base color) in the yards or on good old fashion cork on wood on the mainlines.
Yes, you do bend a few nails sometimes when nailing the track down, but really the 2nd one usually goes in ok after that and so what, you bent a few nails and tossed them out. Big deal. Overall it goes quickly and if you need to remove any track, which I have umpteen times, you just pull them out with needle nose plyers. I'd much rather not have to pry up track that was glued down when that happens and risk damaging it and having to replace it. Track comes up cleanly with no risk to damage if you pull the nails out.
Most of the track you see on that layout was salvaged over 15 years ago from a layout I had to tear down due to a divorce, which had not yet been ballasted. That would have cost a great deal of money to replace, but hey, it's you money, your track - you can choose which method to use. I know what worked for me was "old school" and I still don't understand why a few bent nails is such a deal breaker these day. No messy adhesives which are instantly permanent, no waiting for drying or curing. Nails/spikes in, tracks down. Works for me.
http://atlasrescueforum.proboards.com/thread/3737/jims-layout-progress
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I actually use scraps of the blue foam to hold my models while painting with solvent based rattle can paints.
To my surprise the paints don't "eat" the foam. I've used several different brands of paint and the foam stands up very well, to my disbelief!
I wouldn't use solvent based paints on my pike; because of ventilation issues, but the blue foam holds up better than the white stuff I mentioned earlier.
I guess it depends on just what solvents - I've sprayed on foam scraps too and it didn't do any visible damage, but that's a spray can and the target wasn't the foam surface. Sort of like using Floquil on plastic - if you use light coats you can get away with it. You do have to watch with adhesives - that's why there is a special Liquid Nails for Foamboard. I haven't spilled any lacquer thinner or MEK (or similar - like Tenax) on any pink foam to see what happens.
I rattle can foam without any real issues by priming it first with Zinser 123 in the spray can. After that dries, paint it with just about anything and it's fine. Sculptamold in a thin layer will also work and sometimes you want it down for other reasons, so can serve two purposes.
$40 for a 4x8 sheet of 2"foam are they NUTS!!
NP01 I see that Home Depot has completely stopped carrying the pink foam, except for 1" thick 2'x2' project panels for $5.48 each (that's $44 for an 8x4, more than 2X the price). The 3/4" variety is nowhere to be found. My layout depends upon an area raised 3/4" over the plywood base. I really don't like nailing track to plywood: it's just very hard to nail esp turnouts and I think the foam is dimensionally stable. White glue hold everything together quite well. Any thoughts? Maybe hoamasote? NP.
Shop at Lowe's? Or Menards Depending on where you live :P
Have you asked Home Depot or any other supply store if they would order pink foam for you?
Try some buiding contractors that build homes. Sometimes theythrow it away after some uses.