I am new to hand laying track. What are the best spikes to use? ME medium spikes 3/8" or ME small spikes 1/4". Also, can this be done on standard cork roadbed? any information will help.
Thanks, Mark
I liketo use small spikes. The mediums are huge unless you are doing G scale.
There are people who spike into cork, I don't like spiking into cork roadbed myself, I prefer Homasote.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
In HO, you'll want the Mediums. They are long enough to penetrate all the way through the cork and get just the point embedded into the subroadbed.
The small are better with N scale or with smaller rail like code 55. You should use homasote or something soft like luaun for the subroadbed, because they're very thin cross-section and prone to bending if driven into plywood.
What I recommend that you'll likely find even better than the ME Mediums are the Walthers/Shinohara 948-360 spikes. Those babies are sharp! Literally. Slightly longer than the ME Mediums, their shank is a thinner cross-section, but a very stiff wire so much more resistant than the ME Smalls are to bending. They're easier to get down and clear wheel flanges on the inside of the rail. the MS Mediums will, too, but you have to be fussy to get them right. The 948-360s are just a mattter of getting them in and they clear.
I use both the ME Mediums and the 948-360s. The ME Mediums are very strong with a thick cross-section if you need to apply sideways pressure in some spots.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Kadee Spiker looks good. I used one back in the 60s at a club layout once. Even then it was old. I don't think they make them anymore, though can still get spikes and parts. Maybe you can find on on Ebay.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Thanks for the information, I forgot to mention...I'll be using ME HO code 83 rail. The Walthers/Shinohara 948-360 spikes are for code 70 rail according to the website. Will this make a difference? Also, can anyone share a method for staining the wood ties?
Thanks again, Mark
The Kadee spiker is no longer made, and they do not have all of the parts in stock to build one. It was discontinued due to reliability and product liability issues.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Why spike at all? Use latex caulk.
Lefty
mrazz Thanks for the information, I forgot to mention...I'll be using ME HO code 83 rail. The Walthers/Shinohara 948-360 spikes are for code 70 rail according to the website. Will this make a difference? Also, can anyone share a method for staining the wood ties? Thanks again, Mark
Mark,
I have handlaid a long time and find it relaxing. As others have mentioned, ME medium spikes will do nicely. I use code 70 and 55, but these spikes will be fine for code 83.
Many years ago ME medium spikes had a shorter offset head. I liked this because I drive the shank of the spike up against the web of the rail and at a slight angle so the tip of the offset head just clears the railhead when I drive it the rest of the way home.
But a fews years ago when I bought a fresh bag of spikes, noticed right away that the offset head was much longer. I can't get in as close the way I like to drive spikes. So now, I snip that little extra bit off the offset with my rail nipper. An added step! ME: Why make us work more than we have to?
The Shinohara spikes work fine. They are sharp, but I found they have a tendency to split my Campbell low profile ties and even some ME full profile wood ties, so I prefer the trimmed ME medium spikes. Goes in nice without splitting.
I know folks have handlaid on cork, but this is a non-traditional way of doing it. I use homosote exclusively because of its' ability to firmly hold spikes. The hold gets even better after ballasting because water rusts the spikes, which give them more bite.
As far as staining, I use Minwax dark walnut wood stain. You can get different shades by varying how long you soak batches of ties.
A trick: After fishing the ties out of stain, put them in a brown paper bag and shake the bag like crazy. The paper bag will draw away excess stain. I found that if you don't do this and go directly on paper, ties will stick to each other more and get glued to the newspaper too!
Joel
Modeling the C&O New River Subdivision circa 1949 for the fun of it!
abbieleibowitz Why spike at all? Use latex caulk. Lefty
Caulk works for laying flex track. The OP is "spiking" down ME code 83 for hand laid on wood ties.
BTW, used to use Old English walnut , but needs 2 coats and can fade. I perfer Minwax walnut for that new creosote color. Don't forget to "block' sand the ties after laid, prior to stain. Some in my club will ballast or partial ballast before spiking rails
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
For staining, you could also make your own, rail tie colored paint and isopropyl, super thinned. Use an old coffee can, poor in just enough to cover the bottom, throw in a layer of ties, close lid and lightly shake, poor contents out onto paper towels. You want coated, not saturated. Swelled wood ties do not work with hand laying. Another technique, only if the glue is not dissolved by stain/isopropyl, (don't ask), is to glue them in place "natural", and then stain them with a paint brush, just make sure you cover all exposed sides. (Yes, I did change glue, so, yes, now I have this option.)
And, if you don't have it, I highly recommend the Xuron hand laying kit. It has rail nippers, and two specially made spiking pliers. One for spiking, one for un-spiking. (You will use it, as it will happen, and quite frequently when you first start handlaying. Reason for plywood remark further down.) Also, use a three-point gauge. Actually, use more than one. At least two. That way both ends of the rail have at least one three-point gauge on it, to properly gauge the spacing. This is a must have. Another useful tool, is a tie jig, you lay the ties into the jig, take a thin strip of masking tape, pull out the strip, flip it over, and you now have a line of evenly spaced, mostly straight ties. Fast-tracks makes this, in mainline, siding, and branch line spacings, along with some other useful jigs for when you get into hand laying turnouts. They also carry lasercut wood tie strips, if you would prefer wood ties, but grow to dislike spacing individual ties. And, yes, cork will work, just have some kind of sub layer under the cork that is relatively stiff, but accepts spikes well, like the aforementioned homosote, or, even something like basswood if doing a shelf style layout where thickness is an issue and it will be straight. (Amazing that basswood, cork, hand layed track, and shelf mourning brackets will stay straight, if brackets are evenly spaced, and not just one on each end and that's it, I used three per three foot section, spaced about 6 inches in from each end, then one in the center, under 1/2 inch basswood. Still not warped after 2 years. Layout I use thinner basswood, but more on that later...) Cork over plywood will not be good. Don't ask if cork on foam is good either, and really don't ask how I know that one.... And woodland scenics trackbed will not work with hand laying. Even after ballasting before spiking, and hard-ish sub layer. Don't even think about trying that one.
Spoken from expirience, I have hand layed, still occasionally do when I am rehabbing sections of my layout, I use the tie jigs, and the paint thinned stain, and prefer to use the brush method. And the pliers specially made for spiking are worth their weight in gold of you will be doing quite a lot of it. And, one more suggestion, try it on a display shelf, get the homosote/basswood, to see how it's done, on something that you can do while sitting at your workbench, or at your counter in the kitchen, if the family wouldn't mind that option. Good, easy way to get the hang of it, and you end up with something you can use anyway, if your like me and have more trains than layout space....
And, speaking of doing it, now that I am currently out of work, and have the supplies on hand, and time, this is sounding like a really good idea, as the temperature outside here is now -4F, wind chill -34F, giving a feels like holy crow, welcome to Siberia folks temperature. And getting colder this weekend. Thanks for reminding me I had this I could do.
And, thanks for letting me ramble about hand laying track. Yes, it's detail oriented work, but I enjoy it. Hope you have the same enjoyment while you do it too.
(Edit: I see my rambling took to long, and others covered some of the same things. )
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
mrazzThanks for the information, I forgot to mention...I'll be using ME HO code 83 rail. The Walthers/Shinohara 948-360 spikes are for code 70 rail according to the website. Will this make a difference?
They work fine with code 83. They're rated as code 70, because they are small-headed to make it easy to clear flanges inside the railhead and to look good on the outside. For code 83, they just look that much better.
They are hand building rail from scratch. Loose ties and lengths of loose rail. I suppose you coul caulk that, but to me it seems better to use spikes in that case. Little movements in setting caulk will derail your railroad.
ROARING
MRAZZ like you I am just starting to hand lay track. Joel, thanks for your helpful comments about snipping the ends of ME spikes. I was having problems as I have to quess on how far away from the actual rail web to pilot hole the spike. Clipping the heads should allow for spiking right next to the bottom web on the rail. As far as staining ties, I have been using about 15% ebony stain diluted with low odor mineral spirits. I dip the ties, fish them out and drain them on a paper towel and then lay them out to dry overnight. I do sand the top of ties and plan to brush stain the tops when done spiking down tracks before ballasting.
Track is ME code 83. Using a Xuron rail nipper and a Xuron spike pliers. I am pilot holing all spikes with a pin vice to match spike diameter. Seems to be working out as I have yet to split a tie end (something I did before pilot drilling for the spikes. I have a good clamp on light with a 3000K LED bulb I move around to work on layout benchwork. Sure improves vision of work area. At 72 I still can do most modeling work without magnifiers. Hopefully the vision will hold up a few more years as cataracts have seemed to stabilize and not getting any worse. I have been told that literally everyone over fifty has cataracts to some degree.
Picture is of a siding. The black lines are location for mainline which will be on milled Homesote.
Ok, for all you non carpenters out there, Shinohara spikes can split wood because they are too sharp so you have to dull it some (capenters whack their nail ends with a hammer when splitting maters).
rrebellOk, for all you non carpenters out there, Shinohara spikes can split wood because they are too sharp so you have to dull it some (capenters whack their nail ends with a hammer when splitting maters).
Thanks for mentioning that. I was going to note that seems to me easier than cutting half the head off ME Mediums. To me, each spike has specific uses, which can vary depending on how you lay track and your materials. In my case, I usually use spikes to hold down flex track (although I spike a little track on special occassions), so usually no issues with splitting ties.
i alcohol soluble leather dye in brown and black to dye my ties. Gives me a 'sunbleached" look.
mrazzany information will help.
I'd use PCB ties every so often and solder instead of spikes. Even the smallest of spikes are too big to look realistic and they really stand out when they are not in every rail. IMO, no spikes looks better than infrequent spikes.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
On my last HO layout I used ME code 83 & 70 rail and ME small spikes. Kappler ties were glued to Midwest HO cork roadbed which in turn was glued to 3/4" MDF using Titebond Carpenter's glue for both.
I never had any issues with the spikes backing out or rail changing gauge. The track was ballasted with Highball HO and N scale ballast bonded with diluted Titebond Carpenter's Glue. The ballast glue also helps retain the spikes and rails as well as the ballast.
The railroad operated fine for over 6 years before I changed scales and tried all over again with S scale using ME codes 100, 83, 70 & 55 with everything else being the same except for 3/4" plywood rather than the MDF.
Hope this helps you.
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
I have used brown Rit dye in various strengths to dye wood ties. I'll also do a few black ones to represent new ties...
I always use Minwax stains for my ties. I use a few different colors like Walnut, Driftwood, Oak, Maple and Ebony. Thin each stain with some thinner and soak a batch of ties in each stain, shake off and spread on newspaper to dry. As they are drying stir them up so they don't stick together. As the stain in the container gets lower mix a couple stains together and do another batch until all the stain is all in one container. Rinse and repeat...as the commercial says! Mix all the dried ties together and then randomly apply them to the roadbed. They will give a great and varied look to the track.
My 2¢.