A couple of comments on layout benchwork forms.
You might look into the mushroom design if you have sufficient overhead clearance. That puts upper surface aisleways in dead space between lower level scenes and allows you to stack two levels of layout one above the other but with no visual connection and widely separated access. This is the method Joe Fugate uses, quite successfully.
A variant designed by, I believe, Paul Mallery, put the layout above the 'walking around' aisleways at floor level. Operating aisles are accessed by short staircases. Space under the raised walkways is available for storage, sit-down work areas and such. This design has the advantage of quick access to exits in case of fire. (It was designed for public display. See The Model Railroad Club for details, including original 40 x 40 track plan.)
You might consider a spiral aisleway arrangement, which will give a very long once-through main line at the expense of easy access to an exit. John Armstrong's Canandaigua Southern layout was of this design, in a similar space and larger scale. (John had the advantage of a center staircase.)
My own design is along the walls and then rolled back into the center of a room 19ft 4in square with some immovable impediments. The aisleway is E-I shaped with the central bar of the E reaching the I. Entrance door is at the bottom right of the I. (Top of the I is a water heater. Additional comments deleted.)
If you want to run long (passenger) cars and long (typical Class I) trains you want to use the biggest curves you can live with. IIRC, Joe Fugate rebuilt his inter-level helix to 40 inch radius after having tracking troubles with shorter radii. (I would have settled for one meter, but that's because I work in metric measurements.)
Just a few thoughts from someone who avoids thinking in rectangles.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
The space was a sound room years ago. Full HVAC, sink and built in cabs. This room is attached to my Hotrod shop and away from house proper. Hotrod shop has a potty, shower, beer frig and Kitchen. Hotrod shop is 1800 Sq Ft with an adjacent machineshop area of 750 Sq Ft. Compressor room adjacent to Hotrod Shop. 240 and 120 Electricity. Just about all a man could need.
When we moved to De Queen I had my list and Deby had hers - We both won!
How comfortable is the room?
This might be a good time to consider all the stuff that would be difficult or impossible to add later - heat, air conditioning, lighting, outlets, carpet and such. My trainroom has them all, and I'm very happy for that.
One thing I do not have is properly painted walls and backdrops. That's a sacrifice I had to make, in the words of Thomas Jefferson, "...to promote domestic tranquility."
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Taking in this information then, would an oval (more like a paperclip) shape be better if room alows it?
Nick
Yeah, you sorta do. Otherwise the grade gets very steep and the trains very short. I n cases where all the trains are short, not a problem, otherwise it can be a big problem.
You can figure out what you need by figuring how much clearance is needed to clear your rolling stock PLUS the height of the track and roadbed. Pick a diameter, then calculate the circumference of the circle. Use that number to figure out the rise over the run. That's why larger diameter helixes are favored, because they have a relatively long run over rise, keeping the grade within acceptable limits.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
A 30" radius? Dang, that's a 5' circle. Will I need that much?
NickPPJRI have no problem with multiple decks/levels at all. Speaking of them, I see so many layouts and notice either oval or circular transitions built to gain access to the next level. What's the radius on those things?
That is something called a "helix."
Yep, goes round and round until you get there. The min radius in HO should be around 24" BUT it really should be larger than that. The issue is the drag when you climb your train through one is that you not only have to lfit the train , but you encounter further resistance from the curve and it's continuous. It's better to go with a larger radius and ideal to have something at least 36" minimum radius.
Another factor is the relationship between the radius and the grade. The result must allow enough room to clear the cars and other equipment, reach in for maintenance and fixing derailments, etc.
Helixes are godo for a lot of things. They can be a bit of a mystersy to operate, since your train may disappear for a long time, so having a way to visually monitor train movement is good. Done right with a large enough min radius, they take up lots of real estate.
That 21+' dimension allows you do do what I had been doodling about hoping to find a house with an empty basement. Alont he top and bototm walls, 18" wide shelves. Then, a 4 foot wide aisle. Then 2 penninsulas, as much as 4 feet wide (2 feet with a center backdrop, more reasonably) and another 4 foot aisle in the middle of the room. Offset the ends of the penninsulas since you will need to widen them to manage decent radius turns, but you can get well over 30" radius turnbacks without restricting the aisles to less than 3 feet at any point. That will get you a LONG main line run, even with just one level.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
My room has about the same issues with the doors in similar places. Your counter/bench is where I have a large opening into the room, plus I had a fireplace and a large window to deal with. Your room is much larger than mine (lucky guy).
I will just post a few pics of how my benchwork ended up and it might give you a couple of ideas. As far as trackplans go I will yield to the experts. I found after trying to make a trackplan for the room that I could never quite get to work, that I just designed the benchwork and made the trackplan to fit that. I am happy with the results.
In the corner on the left by the large window I am going to put a canyon to the floor with a bridge across.
Looking forward to your progress, post pics.
Looking the other way, note the notch cut out for the door.
My canyon to the floor.
My next house will have a basement. They are better for layouts.
An early video tour.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
mbinsewi Wow Nick, that's a lot of space! What an excellent challange. I know how dissapointed one can get to learn all that you once remember is now gone, but, why not bring it back! You sure have the room for it. When I did my quick research into what you had in mind, and the PRR, looking at how the rail lines follow the rivers and streams through the hill / mountains, I was thinking what a great area to model. You could use the track schematics, Google Earth, and your memories, to recreate it all. The line to Buffalo was a major mainline, and from what I have read, the lastest "runaway" train movie, "Unstoppable", with Denzel Washington, was filmed on the Buffalo line. I think it would make a fantastic layout, and just about every kind of freight traffic you could imagine went through the area. Just be prepared to make about a zillion trees! Just my thoughts. Mike.
Wow Nick, that's a lot of space! What an excellent challange. I know how dissapointed one can get to learn all that you once remember is now gone, but, why not bring it back! You sure have the room for it. When I did my quick research into what you had in mind, and the PRR, looking at how the rail lines follow the rivers and streams through the hill / mountains, I was thinking what a great area to model. You could use the track schematics, Google Earth, and your memories, to recreate it all. The line to Buffalo was a major mainline, and from what I have read, the lastest "runaway" train movie, "Unstoppable", with Denzel Washington, was filmed on the Buffalo line. I think it would make a fantastic layout, and just about every kind of freight traffic you could imagine went through the area. Just be prepared to make about a zillion trees!
Just my thoughts.
Mike.
Exactly Mike. I looked at Google Earth last night and could see right where the old house was. I remember my Uncle John taking me to the yard on s many occasions and getting to go north up to Buffalo and back as a kid. Memories I'll never forget. It darn near destroyed me seeing it all gone. Just the bare imprint of the round table and a few other things remain. Even the line that went through town, gone.
Trees! Gawd I hadn't really given that part a lot of thought! Maybe Mount Saint Helens post explosion would be better - (may they that lost their lives there rest in Peace).
I think you have something there (Buffalo to Emporium). Time to research some more.
As an aside, backdrop. Is it possible to take photographs of landscape, have them printed to scale and lay them up like wall paper on the back drop?
TIA,
Thanks Jim. I have no problem with multiple decks/levels at all. Speaking of them, I see so many layouts and notice either oval or circular transitions built to gain access to the next level. What's the radius on those things? With wanting to mix freight and passenger would it be prudent to allow for the longest cars? I hate having to go out and purchase items just to determine clearance and radius, is there some charts or data banks that contain mins and max?
My You Tube
Thats a respectable sized room with enough space to build a decent layout with some good operating possibilities, especially if you can double deck or at least have a sizable staging yard.
As for era and RR, that of course is your preference. I noticed you mentioned Royal Gorge; as a D&RGW fan thats a cool idea and great for scenery but for operations ... not as much save for railfanning. If you like 50's and 60's D&RGW, the Joint Line would be less on scenery although there is a Front Range mountain backdrop but more variety as the Santa Fe, CB&Q and D&RGW, and MoPac and Rock Island was around too. Some industry in Denver for switching and Pueblo, Colorado Springs. If you remember Doug Tagsolds articles, they included a little of that although they concentrated on the mainline up to the Moffatt tunnel, he did have Denver action, might have had Pueblo too. See old issues of MR for that - one my favorite layouts - RIP is D&RGW layout.
Jim
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
That is a very nice sized room with which you can do a lot.
LION has a somewhat smaller room 24'x27' and him runs on the walls three levels, and him has two blobs between which the trains run and find their helixes. Everythng is within easy reach of a LION.
So what ewe haves is a room full of possibilities. Think like a CAT. Think Vertically.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Attached, here is the future Train Room. I have decided upon the gauge -HO. I have kicked about four layouts to the curb and became very dissapointed in finding the PRR yard in Emporium all gone. Even the old homestead is gone from across the street (Google Earth). I had given thought to the Royal Gorge however to capture the realism of the depth the bridge would be plumb up to the ceiling so it's out. I love the 50's to 60's style of trains but just can't put my finger on the area or layout. I have reviewed many online (real) but being so new to this it's a daunting challenge.
I had posted the room with an initial layout but it didn't meet with much approval so I am submitting the empty room for thoughts. I'd like a blend of some passenger and freight with mountains. I'm very open to suggestions.