Hey Everyone,
I'm in the greater Chicagoland area in the western suburbs. Does anybody know or could recommend someone who builds layouts or at least trackwork. I have been having problems nonstop with my track work. I've worked on it time and again with the little tools that I do have but I'm just a beginner and work alot of hours so I would be willing to pay someone to come look at my layout and possibly rebuild the trackwork or repair what I most likely screwed up. But I also think I just need a fresh pair of eyes as well. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Reggie
Probably the best bet is to join a local model railroad club and inquire from them who you may hire or better yet some club members could help free of charge.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Reggie,
What type of surface is supporting your layout, plywood, foam?
What type of track are you using, flex track, sectional?
I assume the problem with the track work is derailments.
Locos, rolling stock, both?
Rich
Alton Junction
Hey Rich,
My benchwork is made of plywood, and Im using combination of sectional track and flex track by Atlas. Yes I keep having derailments and by me being a beginner I don't know where to turn to. I probably would be all good if I had a person that has alot of experience with trackwork help me or would do it for me. My rolling stock doesn't derail all that much but definitely the locomotives both 4 and six axle engines. I have 22'' and 18'' curves but it seem like everytime I get one area under control the trains start derailing at another. All my switches seem to be getting messed up as well. I don't know if its due to expansion, humidity from the recent flood, etc. But I'm about ready to tear up all the track, and start over.
@ Pete
I do belong to a club but they don't seem to be much help. It seems like everyone comes to run their trains on their layout and go home. When I asked about it before it was the perception of do it yourself....so I just left it alone.
How do you secure your track to the plywood, nails or caulk?
Is your track on some form of roadbed?
Most of it is nailed down but I don't have it down too tightly as I've read that it causes the rails to bulge and kink up. There are some areas that I also have glued down such as the bridges....My layout is basically a over and under double main line where the lower level main splits between a narrow river gorge. The plywood was custom built professionally with cuts to allow for as smooth as elevation changes as possible. I have put little sheets of paper under the tracks in areas to shim it out and keep the track level in places where I saw the rails were not even on both sides.
Therein lies at least part of the problem, uneven rails.
Once the surface of the layout is uneven, the problems start to build up and the more you do to compensate, the worse the problem becomes.
It is ironic that locoi1sa (Pete) is one of the repliers to this thread. Pete gave me great advice some time ago when I posted a thread about my poor track work including uneven rails, kinks, humps and valleys. Pete's advice: FIX THE HUMP. I've never forgotten that advice, and I took it to heart, leveling the rails, undoing the kinks, eliminating the valleys and fixing the humps.
As much as you probably don't want to hear this, you need to fix this problem yourself for two reasons. One, the experience will be invaluable as you likely grow your layout in the future. Two, as you are already finding out, it will be difficult to find someone with the time and interest to correct existing problems.
Patchwork solutions such as shims will not solve the problem because it just shoves the issue down the line to the next section of track or turnout.
Not being able to run a four axel diesel means you really have bad track.
Since most of the track is nailed down it will be easy to take it all up and start over.
As Rich said you need a flat & level base for your road bed. When you put it back down use a very thin layer of latex caulk to hold it in place.
There are occasions when a shim is needed but paper isn't the best as it won't hold up over the long haul (no pun intended). I've used toothpicks, wire, etc.
I had a kink or two that my eyes didn't see but my camera surely did,
Good luck and as Rich said, do it yourself and your railroad will mean a lot more to you in addition to the learning experience..
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
My suggestion is that you put aside this layout for the time being and build a very simple layout using a single 4x8 sheet of plywood. This will allow you to reduce the number of potential problems. Use 1/2 inch A/C or B/C plywood supported by benchwork with cross members on 16" centers. Make sure it's flat when you buy it - use birch plywood if you have to. Make sure it's flat both ways after building the table - use a long metal straight edge or level. If it's not flat, fix it now - some cross members are high or low.
Lay down a simple flat oval using sectional track and get trains to run on it. Add a couple of turnouts test running after each one.
Things to watch for as you lay track.
Each piece of track should lay flat on the plywood before you connect it - both side to side and lengthwise. This is very important for all track and more so for turnouts. At this point do not try to fix any bad track - either set it aside or return it if new.
The track should meet squarely end to end at the joints. Run your finger over the joints checking for bumps. Put your eye down to the track and sight along it looking for kinks especially at the joints.
Turnout points should be snug to the running rails in both positions.
Nails are used to keep the track from shifting - it should be correct before using nails With sectional track you should be able to lay an oval with turnouts and run trains before fastening it down.. Use track nails and pre drill the holes in the plywood so that the nails fit snug in the holes - only needing light tapping with a small hammer and nail set. Leave the head very slightly off the tie - don't nail down tight.
Good luck
Paul
Good track is the heart of a fun layout. If you get even a few derailments it really spoils the effect you hope to get when you power up the rails and want to watch the trains. So, in your case, in all sincerity, and with my best intentions for you...rip it up and start all over. It's not working, and in view of all the constant repairs and tweaking, it's all temporary anyway. Start over.
First, establish a good roadbed. Find some homasote or cork roadbed or some 1/2" plywood good on one side and cut it to fit. Remember to be generous and careful with your curve radius. When you are ready to lay the roadbed, just dab the underside with a few beads of acrylic latex adhesive or caulk, say PL300. Then invert it and lay it into place, but don't press it down, and repeat for the other sections. Before you walk away, put a bubble level in several places atop the roadbed to ensure it is level across...you don't want trains wobbling and tilting UNLESS you mean to have some superelevation on curves, and that's a bit more tricky. Go light on superelevation.
A day later, take a sander and go over an joints between roadbed sections that catch a thumbnail. I mean an orbital palm sander, and just a few swipes for a second or two...NO BELT SANDERS!!!!
Next, lay your track segments, but figure out how to keep flex track from sagging in the middle if it is suspended between sectional track with plastic roadbed already attached. Shimming is fraught with errors, as you have learned, so find something of uniform thickness that you can slide under there so that it does a good job of keeping the rails at grade.
Once you have it all hooked up, and you have honest-to-goodness consistent curves of a decent radius for your rolling stock, hook up power and try it with a train. If it is a lot better, then you can begin to fix the rails into place with acryic latex caulk, just a think sheen spread over the roadbed...enough that it does not well up in between the ties when you press the tracks down into place.
Test with a train again. Then ballast and continue with the scenery.
Crandell
Thanks Paul
But unfortunately I don't have the space, or money or time to set this layout aside and build a 4x8.....this layout itself is just a tad bigger at 5x9'so I'm right there. I probably will start over and build the track again. I really didn't want to do that but at this point I'm having too many problems. I just came from running it and my four axle GW GP20 runs fine for the most part and I even put a SD40-2 on the outer mainline and its running decently.......FOR NOW! Tomorrow would be a different story as it seems to be the story of my layout. My bi-level commuter cars I just parked for right now because they weren't really derailing too bad but they would not stay coupled to the F40PH especially going up and down elevation, etc.
@ Crandell
Thanks so much for the advice. Yes that's what Im leaning to is starting to redo the entire track work. Might take a couple of weeks but I know it probably will be worth it in the end.
Hi
You are going to have to start over.
No matter how "little" you have attached the track nails, ANY deflection of rails is going to casue derailments! The nails in the hole, if the hole is jsut a fraction of a hir's width too small, can cause a deflection when a nail is inserted that is not readily apparent.
I Hiss, snarl and growl at track nails [and screws for that matter}!
I used latex caulk to secure my track to the layout base of blue extruded foam. I knew from just laying out the trackwork and tesitng it that there were NO problems with the tracks BEFORE I attached it permenantly.
I have 15R" and 18R" curves and 10 switches which gave me NO grief for the locos i was running.
Then I attached the track with a thin bead of caulk spread out thinly evenly with an angled cake spreader {available at craft shops that sell cake decorating supplies like AC Moore's or Michael's- get the 40% off coupon in the Sunday Paper}
Then I pressed the track gently into the caulk and CAREFULLY weighted down with little sandwhich Ziplocks filed with one half measuring cup of play sand....for a day or two.
Then I test ran the locos and RR cars again to be happy.
Get Thee away from the NAILS!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Regg05 Yes that's what Im leaning to is starting to redo the entire track work. Might take a couple of weeks but I know it probably will be worth it in the end.
Yes that's what Im leaning to is starting to redo the entire track work. Might take a couple of weeks but I know it probably will be worth it in the end.
And, before you begin to lay track, make certain that the surface that the track will be secured to is level, even if on an incline, free of humps and valleys. And be sure that the surface will accept track without forcing one rail higher or lower than the other rail. If the surface is smooth and level, the track work is more likely to be bullet proof.
There is a hobby shop in Batavia called Structures and trains by Fred. It is at 60 N. Island Ave.
The phone # is 630-761-6550 I know he did build layouts in the past. I am not sure if he still does.
Good luck from the trainnut.
BrianinBuffalo . . .Have you looked at Kato Unitrack? It is in HO and N. I love it!!!!!!. . .
. . .Have you looked at Kato Unitrack? It is in HO and N. I love it!!!!!!. . .
+1
I am only five months into the hobby, and, at the recommendation of the fine folks at the San Diego Railroad Museum, I am using Kato Unitrack. I currently have a relatively basic layout with 5 turnouts and no elevation change. I have grown to 8 engines, all Kato except my pair of steam engines, and rolling stock from Kato and Micro-Trains. I have never had a derailment except when I have failed to correctly seat one of my cars. My experience is the track is bullet-proof. I have to wonder if the attached roadbed/ballast doesn't insulate the track from expansion problems.
There are a couple of cons: First, it is more expensive. Second, you are limited to the curves that are available. There is no flex track. Likewise, you are not able to cut the track to fit, though they do have a expansion section in their N scale line. This makes designing a more complex layout a bit of a challenge, sort of like building a large puzzle. (Hope this isn't too much of a thread jack.)
Richard
Regg05 I really didn't want to do that but at this point I'm having too many problems.
I really didn't want to do that but at this point I'm having too many problems.
Resist the feeling that you are overwhelmed. The trains really don't derail everywhere, they probably derail at specific points. Don't tear things up yet. You'll destroy the evidence at the "crime scene". If you don't know what's wrong, chances are you'll just repeat it if you lay the track back down. Until you know what your problems are I wouldn't glue it down either.
Take a deep breath.
Start with an engine. Run it around the layout and put a push pin or post it note down at the spot every time it derails. Swap to a different engine and do the same thing, marking them with a different color pin or note.
Where are the derailments happening? Curves? Joints? Switches?
Realize that you may have multiple problems. For example the passenger cars not staying coupled to the F40 is either a coupler alignment problem (one coupler is too high or too low) or its a track problem (there is a hump in the track or a sharp vertical curve at the top or bottom of a grade. None of those problems will be helped by relaying the track. Identify the spot where the cars come uncoupled. Put a straight edge on a rail. Is the track humped? Is there a sharp vertical curve?
If the derailments are at a joint, make sure the rails are aligned and the joiners are secure. Make sure the rails are aligned in a smooth curve. Running 6 axle diesels and loooonnnnngggg, tall, top heavy passenger cars on 18" radius is pushing the envelope so you are right at the edge where things start to go wrong anyway. Think of minimum radius as the edge of a cliff. Yes, you can stand right on the edge of a cliff, but if you are right on the edge it doesn't take much to push you over the edge.
If the engines derail at every curve, then that means there is something happening with the engine or that the track is too sharp for the engine.
The whole key is figuring out where the derailments actually happen, then solving each individual problem.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I actually seriously considered switching to Kato's Unitrack but felt it would look out of place or too toy-like. I heard from my hobby shop that it is indeed bulletproof reliable but for the reasons you mention above many people don't purchase it. It is very expensive and you can't modify it so for someone who has the curves that I have and the way the layout goes up and down with elevation changes I don't know if it would work. I also like the natural look of real ballast. I was wondering have anyone still put ballast over the imbedded roadbed already attached to the track????
Regg05I was wondering have anyone still put ballast over the imbedded roadbed already attached to the track????
Yes, the track needs to be ballasted. Think of the plastic as roadbed like the cork many people use. Kato puts little bumps on it so it looks better than cork and it doesn't cost them any more to do it.
But still, Dave has the right approach. The more you know about your track work the better. And you will make it bullet proof -- and learn a lot about your track, engines, and rolling stock in the process.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Not on the current layout, but plan to on the next one. Kato sells ballast that matches the fake stuff attached to the track. Also, it is possible to do elevation changes. Here is a thread showing the excellent layout Brian built using Unitrack. Doesn't look at all like a toy. http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/213745.aspx?sort=ASC&pi314=1
One more caveat: There is a wide selection of track in N Scale, the HO options are much more limited in Unitrack.
Regg05 Hey Everyone, I'm in the greater Chicagoland area in the western suburbs. Does anybody know or could recommend someone who builds layouts or at least trackwork. I have been having problems nonstop with my track work. I've worked on it time and again with the little tools that I do have but I'm just a beginner and work alot of hours so I would be willing to pay someone to come look at my layout and possibly rebuild the trackwork or repair what I most likely screwed up. But I also think I just need a fresh pair of eyes as well. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Reggie
Dunno if you can find anyone to fix your track. But you can do it your self. You fix it one spot at at time. Take your best running locomotive running without a train. Run it around the mainline a few times. Mark every place it derails with a post-it note. Pretty soon it will be clear where it's derailing and which is the worst spot on the layout. Start with the worst spot and work til you have fixed it.
Get the NMRA gauge and check the track gauge very carefully. If the track gauge is off enough to see it with the track gauge, it's off enough to derail a train. Track nails driven down too hard will put a bend in the tie, pulling the rails closer together. Make all the track nail heads float a tiny bit above the tie. Replace any pieces of track that remain out of gauge. Model track should be level. Don't bank the track in curves. If the roadbed is not level, take up the track, level the roadbed with a power sander, and relay the track.
Check the rail joints. Make sure both ends of each rail as inserted INSIDE the rail joiner. Use new rail joiners to replace old and weary joiners. Eyeball the track joint to see that it is smooth. If one piece of track is higher than the other, you will have a bump, and bumps cause derailments. Use a yard stick on straight track joints to make sure they are really straight. On curves use a really big compass, or a pencil on a string, to draw a true arc on the roadbed. Make the track follow the arc, don't allow kinks between pieces of sectional track to sharpen the curve. When laying flex track on curves either avoid a joint on the curve, or solder the rail joiners between two pieces of flex track before you lay them, so as to get a smooth curve without a kink at the joint.
Get your eye, and/or your camera, right down to railhead height and sight down the track. The eye is pretty good at picking up kinks. Works on straight track and on curves.
Run your fingers along the rails. Use a file to smooth any rough spots you can feel.
Keep at it until the locomotive can run thru the bad spot without derailing. Then move on to fix the next bad spot. Keep at it until you fix them all.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
If you are going to tear it up, the best thing to do is lay one section and then test for derailments and if no problems occur, then move on to laying the next section then test it..ect..ect. Do a section at time. It is a lot easier fixing a problem when there are only a few pieces of track laid then when a whole layout is laid. You don't have to tear up as much track to gain access to the problem area. Your issue could be a number of things. Check the bench work first, it could be twisted just enough to throw off the track. If that is your problem then you will have derailments no matter how many times you re do it.
EZ-Track, Uni-Track, and the like are good products for the most part, but they are both limiting in how you can configure tracks that close in a loop, and they cost big dollars. Flex track and Atlas or Peco turnouts work better than the EZ-Track turnouts I used seven years ago. Peco are costly, but I think they're less costly than the EZ-Track.
FWIW, laying flex is a lot more work, but it has its own lasting value from all that labour. Or, so I have found. I know it's not for everyone.
One of my biggest problems when I first laid track on my current layout was that I failed to ensure a level surface. I cut all of the benchwork legs exactly 36 inches, but it never crossed my mind that the basement floor was uneven. Every seem in the plywood surface created a hump or valley. So, when I laid my track, it was not level, rather, it followed the contour of the surface. I had no end of problems, and it literally took me years to work out all of the problems.
Hi Regg,
You have had a lot of great advice so far. I have a question, what track plan did/are you using? It wouldn't happen to be one of the Atlas plans would it? The reason I ask is some (maybe most) date back to the 50's and have a severe fudge factor built in. If you are using an Atlas plan it is best to lay out all the track first and adjust it as necessary.
Regardless of if you are using a Atlas plan or not, it might help if you posted a plan and pics of your trouble spots. We'll then all be able to give you some pointers.
Here is a link to a book on track work basics.
http://www.kalmbachstore.com/modeltrains-railroading-model-railroading-books-getting-started-series.html
In addition to the standards gauge already suggested some track alignment tools could help you to avoid kinks in your flextrack work
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/MLR-HO-5019-Track-Tool-Set-Deluxe-Includes-Track-T-p/mlr-5019.htm
Keep us posted, Derek
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Hi Reggie, maybe you could post some pics of your overall track layout, such as shots from different angles, showing the grades, etc., maybe try to do an overhead? and a video showing a loco running on it. Maybe if we can all get a look at what you have, some ideas may come forward as to improving it. Just an idea.
You've gotten a lot of great advise so far. I personally, when I have a problem area, I run a loco over the suspected spot, back and forth, and watch the wheels and trucks carefully, to see just what is happening. You can usually figure it out, and make adjustments. I also agree that the cars uncoupling is an issue with too quick of a grade change, and / or a coupler height issue, as one is lower / higher than the other, and the slightest change in the track, or the way the cars pull each other, causes the uncoupling.
Good luck ! and don't give up, you CAN figure this out !
Mike.
My You Tube
Hi Reggie
I had outside help with my trackwork and it went horribly wrong. These so called professionals delivered the layout and left me with two months of rebuilding the track. I pulled up my boot straps and started by tearing up all the track (Micro Engineering) and replaced it with Atlas Flex. All I can say is take your time, use all the helpful tools that MR offers and with the help of experienced people on this forum, I'm sure you'll be able to do a good job yourself.
Outside help will be to damm expensive and totally not worth the aggravation.
JC
Hey Mike
http://www.flickr.com/photos/92978045@N06/8633966809/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/92978045@N06/8633961633/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/92978045@N06/8633959949/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/92978045@N06/8633956549/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/92978045@N06/8633954469/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/92978045@N06/8633943431/