Nandina grows kind of wild around here though it is usually pretty scraggly. I never thought of trying it for tree armatures. I am going to have to do some looking around to see what I have and experiment with it.
Huntington Junction - Freelance based on the B&O and C&O in coal country before the merger... doing it my way. Now working on phase 3. - Walt
For photos and more: http://www.wkhobbies.com/model-railroad/
Since moving to TN from GA, I moved my Nandina bushes with me. They make superb tree armatures, after the red berries fall off. You just have to remove the tiny ends that look like bulbs, then you're good to go. I've used them naturally and have painted a few of the trunks a light grey to mimic ash trees. I really love all your (every post) posts in this section and it has given me more insight into making trees than any other post I've encountered on the inter-web. Continue your good work and keep us posted.
HO and Lionel 027
Just to add some possibilities to your list. Sedum also makes good tree armatures. Once the flower dies in the fall they can be cut off and dried. Some folks leave them until the flowers fall off, others leave the flowers on. They can give you quite a tall tree. I planted a few several years ago and haven't come close to using all the armatures they have produced.
If you have a neighbor with these they may not have cut them off yet, so ask around. They do need to be cut off annually.
Good luck,
Richard
Jim, I really didn't get to play around much more with the azalea cuttings. I think it is possible but it would be hard to get a bunch of trees that look as good as the supertrees, and modeling Appalachia I need a lot of trees. So I pretty much shelved the idea.
The branching is a bit odd since azaleas tend to branch out in several directions all in one spot. And you need to use fiber like Wayne does, or 3M spray glue, or something else to build them up. That said, I had two that were good enough to sneak into the background, and one is quite visible in the diesel side-view pic if you know where to look.
Playing around I did find other uses for Wayne's fiber method- using it to make pretty good looking ivy and other odd plant growths.
Walt, have you tried using any azelea cuttings for armatures? Am getting ready to trim a couple and wondered if saving cuttings would be worth the time for model trees. I am at the stage you must have been a couple of years ago. I am also looking at using goldenrod as there is a lot growing about a block from my house and is dried out now. Have seen articles on making goldenrod trees before and think it is cheap, available and worth a try.
Jim
Walt:
The trees look really 'natural' which is often not the case with HO scale trees IMHO.
Well done!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Very nice looking results, Walt.
Wayne
When I started this thread I was a raw rookie. I had a couple of years to think about it since then, and also got to see how my original trees held up. So I was better prepared this time.
Actually all of the originals have held up just fine. The only trees that really want to shed a bunch if handled are the ones made with Noch leaf flock glued on with hairspray. I used a variety of gluing methods back then and this time went with the one that I think is most simple and easiest to control. My original Supertree starter kit came with two little plastic containers that look like they were intended for grocery store sub sandwiches. I thinned matte medium concentrate and filled one of them up, and one at a time, rolled a tree in the matte medium to soak the branches in the glue but avoided getting it on the trunk. Then I flocked the tree and went on to the next. After the trees dried completely I sealed the the flock with hairspray like I did before.
Of all the flocking materials I tried three years ago the regular old (grass) green foam was the easiest to work with and most versatile. So I bought a bunch of that for the base color of my "forest", and then some Noch tree flake in green, dark green and olive to add variety. And also some of the new Superleaf flock to try out. This time I paid a lot of attention to each tree shape and the branching density when selecting the flock to use. I only used the Noch flake on trees that were very full and would not show much branching or trunk. Rounded trees all got the olive color. I used Superleaf on trees that were full but would show some branching or trunk. Over half of the trees still got the foam, but I varied how much I put on to make some very dense and some very delicate depending on how the armature looked.
Overall these trees look better and make much more sense than my first effort- there is still variety, but a pattern to it all.
I also put a lot of thought on how to arrange them and that is really making a big difference. Short, full trees at the back of the hill, then gradually taller with more shape working my way down the hill. I saved the most delicate of the large trees for front of the track so you can see the trains through the branches. I am also being particular in placing the trees up front so that different view angles highlight features of the layout behind them, like the small rockface. I am using foam as the landform base everywhere on my layout just because it makes trees easy to arrange. Make a hole in the foam with an awl and plant. If it doesn't look quite right then pull it out and move it, or try another.
I've learned there is a lot more to trees than just getting the flock to stick. But hopefully the flock will stay stuck...
Looks like you've been pretty successful. Nice work.
Rob Spangler
I know this thread is getting old, in fact it was one of the first threads that I started when I decided to build a layout three years ago. But I am pumped, and since this is where my tree-making journey started...
I spent the last few days making trees, and this afternoon started planting them in the newly constructed area of my layout. Take a look at the results.
All of the trees in the pics were made with a 1/4 bushel of Supertrees (less than $30) and I only planted about half of them so far. I just had to take a break and get some pictures, and then of course I had to share.
It took a while and a good bit of experimenting, but I think I have a system for trees figured out
I was figuring on cutting off that bushy looking tall limb, and nipped it right after reading your comments. It looks a lot better without it.
Agree on having nicer trees out front to fill it out, but in this case there is very little room for trees behind the cabins- in fact I intentionally selected "armatures" that were very flat to get them to fit back there. I am sure I can do better but going to concentrate on construction of my phase 2 for now.
I like the Supertree and Supersage armatures for foreground trees but with a little practice I think your method will work nicely for areas of thick growth. So that's my plan.
Walt, the trees on the left and the flowering shrubs alongside the company houses look the best, but the others aren't bad either. The bushy one in the centre would likely look better if you were to snip of the taller portion on the left - it could be a smaller tree or shrub on its own - and then touch-up the spot where it was removed with a little more polyfibre and an application of ground foam.You've captured the airy look quite nicely with the other two in the right background, but they'd look even better if you had similar but shorter ones in front of them or shorter bushier ones in front - that would hide the spindly trunks.I usually try to hide my poorer efforts behind or among the good ones. After all, scenery, unless it's really poorly done, is more noticeable by its absence than by its degree of perfection. I have some fairly large areas to forest, but wouldn't even attempt to make every tree a masterpiece. If the ones closest to the viewer are pretty good, the less good ones in the background probably aren't even noticed by the majority of viewers, and even less so by the people running the trains. I also notice, on my own layout, that the trees look okay when I'm running trains, but not so good when I view them in a photograph - it's easy to spot the too-thin branches and trunks, or the limbs which have somehow poked through the fibre and the foam, etc. When I see such things, I sometimes make an effort to correct it, but a layout is a mistress greedy of our available time. I have places where I'm still laying track on bare plywood.
Go with the super trees. The material is available longer, got some in a super box but don't know of someone who sell just the bigger stuff, forget the name of the actual material is.
OK Wayne, I gave your method a quick try this evening- polyfiber over dead azalea twigs then flocked using hairspray. I didn't get fancy or spend much time on it, just grabbed what was handy in the shop and made two trees. Then populated all the bushes and trees around the two cabins that I finished just before taking "time off". I had already made a bunch, just never planted them after finishing the groundwork and painting the track rails.
The polyfiber definitely helps promote thick "growth" using readily available materials, but like anything else it seems like it will take some practice. I tried one azalea armature with tight "branches" and then one with more delicate, spreading branches. It was easy to get a bunch of green (tree behind the left cabin) but controlling the polyfiber to get a good effect on the delicate tree (to the right of it) so that the branching shows was a bit more tricky. The two trees to the far left and all the bushes were made using Supertree material. As far as I am concerned this scene is complete for now.
But take a look- any suggestions for improving technique on the trees? I am definitely going to work on it and make a bunch more this way.
There are more permanent methods of attaching foliage, but the hairspray seems quite durable and is certainly easy to do. Many older layouts begin to look tired because dust accumulates on it over the years. Trains and structures can be cleaned, but trees not very easily. In some cases, though, they can be refreshed with a few careful spritzes of hairspray and a light dusting of ground foam.
My layout has been around for a while (I don't recall when it was started, but it would have been some time in the early '90s), but it is in its own mostly-finished room, so dust isn't a major problem. I do vacuum it, track, structures, trains, etc., every year or two, but details like vehicles and small scenic items are removed for that (none are glued in place, as I like to alter things periodically to keep it "fresh"). Trees, of course, are not removeable and they're too fragile for vacuuming, but they've been in place for at least 7 years, and look the same as seen in the photos.I'm currently working on a partial second level over the area where most of the trees are located, and while it does create some dust, I often vacuum while working and always when the day's work is done. Here's a photo taken recently on what is now the lower level:
...and an overview of part of the room:
The lower level is operated from a rolling office chair, and the deep upper fascia controls the viewing angle so that only the layout is visible, none of the support structure for the upper deck.
The problem with hairspray is you have to use the right amout to seal it. When you seal it, it will looked sealed but will flake off after a year or two unless you really soak it. You see a light seal will hold for awhile, just like hair but you need a more permanent seal.
Thanks for the very kind comments, guys.
Other than the bottle-brush Christmas trees, all of the trees were made using natural weeds and twigs as the armatures, but I'm afraid that I'm unable to name any of them. I use twigs, mostly from bushes growing wild, and weed stems. If you look at real trees, you'll notice that many have shapes peculiar to their species, and often colours specific to either the species or the time of year. It's not really necessary to know the type of tree, only that you find something in a scaled-down size which ressembles that shape or can be trimmed to that shape. Trimming includes shaping its silhouette and/or removing excess branches from its interior. Goldenrod, with the leaves and other non-scale stuff cleaned off, makes a good support system for the interior of a forested area, but the stems are a little scrawny for the edge of it. To make fatter trunks using just about any type of weed stems, I use multiple stems and combine them using florists' tape, available in most craft stores. It comes in several colours, but I use dark brown, then paint the wrapped trunk dark grey. The tape is somewhat stretchy and sticky, but I usually add a drop of white glue to secure the free end. The last photo, with the cows in the shade, shows a tree built-up in this manner.I think that polyfibre has been one of the biggest boons for tree-making, as it saves having to do a lot of work on the armature (unless you're building foreground trees which will be under more scrutiny). On many examples I've seen, however, the fibre isn't stretched thin enough, with the result that the shape of the trees appears too well-defined. You can get away with that in a large expanse of forest, or on distant trees, but if the trees near the viewer are done with a little extra care, it will give an impression that the whole scene is of similar quality.After trimming a bunch of weeds and twigs to suit, I usually group them according to type, then do all of the similar ones at the same time and usually with the same method.I work on the floor of my layout room, with newpapers spread to catch the spilled ground foam, overspray from the pump-action hairspray and broken twigs - this is not detail work and definitely involves making a mess. Having separate newspapered areas allows you to keep the different colours of foam separate.I use Finesse "Firm Hold" non-scented hair spray in a pump-type sprayer. The advantages over an aerosol can are twofold: first, the force of the spray is more gentle and controllable, so it doesn't blast away the results of previous applications of foam. Second, when the aerosol can gets to a certain point, there may be hairspray remaining, but no propellant to make it available. With a pump, use a second one, and when it too gets low, dump the 1/2"-or-so remaining in the first one into it - nothing wasted. I've already used four or five, and they're completely empty when discarded.
Stretch the polyfibre as thin as possible, then stretch it again. I sometimes add drops of white glue to the tips of the armature, but in many cases, it goes for naught as the tips slip right through the fibre material. Don't worry if some tips poke through. You should be aware, though, that these trees will not withstand a lot of contact - most of the branches are thin and brittle, and the foam foliage can be dislodged or the whole shebang catch on a tool or shirtsleeve and pull right off the tree.
I start by applying a fairly heavy coat of hairspray over the stretched fibre, then sprinkle on some ground foam - I usually start with a medium size in a fairly dark green, working over the first newspaper station. If there are areas where the foam doesn't stick, re-spray and re-sprinkle at those places. This first, and darkest, colour can also be applied from the bottom, too, especially if that portion of the tree will be viewable. The dark colour here represents shade, so apply all subsequent lighter colours only from above. Don't, however, attempt to make the canopy opaque. If there are bare stems poking through the fibre, stretch a bit of fibre to suit and drape it loosely over the offending area and gently poke the edges, in a couple of places, into the nearby foam-covered fibre. Spray these patches and add foam locally. Move to the next newspaper section, re-spray, then sprinkle on more foam - a lighter colour than the previous one, but don't attempt to re-cover the first completely - the two different colours will add depth to the appearance. Depending on how many colours you wish to use, simply repeat these steps as you wish.For the final application, I use Woodland Scenics Burnt Grass, also in medium size, and apply it very lightly to only the tops of the tree and any protruding area such as the repair outlined above. If you apply this lightest colour only from what will become the top of the tree, it will give the impression of sunlight hitting the highest parts of the tree.
When I've finished a tree-making session, I re-cycle the ground foam remaining on the various newspapers. If not much hairspray has fallen on it, it goes back into its original container. Where a lot of hairspray has made the foam clump together, I combine the various clumped material and put it in a separate container, as it's usually too large for tree-making. It works well, though, for underbrush or as bushes around structures.
Tree-making is more art than science, I think, and there are many other methods that will give good results, too. Don't be afraid to experiment, but don't forget to observe your prototypes, just as you would for any other model.I have a great many more trees to create, even just to complete the first part of my layout, and I'll try to take some photos of the process. Please, though, don't hold your breath for it.
Wayne: Pls explain your tree making techniuqes. Those look so realistic! I def need to copy that and your creek.
Private msg (copy from above) sent.
Wayne, just like the rest of your work your trees are outstanding. I also really like the way you are able to get a great looking "dense woods" effect.
What do you mean by "natural armatures"?
For those relatively new to the site here are some pics that I posted long after first starting this thread. All were made with Supertrees experimenting with a variety of gluing techniques. This is the only area of my layout that I consider fully "detailed"- and not much has changed since then except the rails have been painted. I am happy with the way it turned out but want to get a more "dense woods" look for other areas.
It will be a while before I get back to making trees. Right now I am concentrating on terraforming and installing a ME viaduct that I just finished building for phase 2 of my layout. Foam is flying and plaster is drying
Walt
I don't yet have very many trees on my layout, but most are natural armatures with polyfibre stretched over them. I then spray them with hairspray from a pump-type sprayer and sprinkle on some ground foam, repeating the spray and sprinkle operation until I get the shape and colours I want. I also use lichen as underbrush, sometimes with ground foam added or, where it's just filler between the other stuff, unaltered. Here are a few:
These background evergreens are bottlebrush Christmas trees. I trimmed them somewhat to break-up their too-regular shape, then stretched a little polyfibre over them, gave them a few spritzes of hairspay and sprinkled on some ground foam:
These scrub trees and bushes grow alongside a small creek, almost obscuring it from passing trains (and their operators):
A view from the east bank of Chippawa Creek:
Funny you just posted on this old thread. I took a break from model railroading over a year ago and just got back to working on the layout the last few weeks. Not much new progress to report (though it has come a long, long way since this thread was started- this thread is OLD!)
You are right, I've lived in the Augusta area for 25+ years now and my layout is the only one I've ever seen around here. No clubs or local support, but that's OK. I've always done what I want to do how I want to do it anyway.
HObbyguy Wow, lots of really great looking trees using a variety of methods! Yes there are a lot of links on the internet, some very amateur and some way too time consuming for a heavily wooded area. Suggestions here are much more in line with what I am looking for. Interesting that nobody is really recommending using the matte medium for the foliage even though Scenic Express really pushes it. I was thinking of trying azalea branches as armatures. No lack of those here on my property (Augusta GA.) and some of the smaller varieties have a lot of branching near the tips. Based on what you guys are saying its worth a shot.
Wow, lots of really great looking trees using a variety of methods!
Yes there are a lot of links on the internet, some very amateur and some way too time consuming for a heavily wooded area. Suggestions here are much more in line with what I am looking for. Interesting that nobody is really recommending using the matte medium for the foliage even though Scenic Express really pushes it.
I was thinking of trying azalea branches as armatures. No lack of those here on my property (Augusta GA.) and some of the smaller varieties have a lot of branching near the tips. Based on what you guys are saying its worth a shot.
After using a variety of adhesives for making trees. I finally tried Woodland Scenics Hob-E-Tac, and really like it. You just brush it on the branches, let it sit for about 10 minutes, then dunk it into the flock, or if you prefer, use it to hold their Poly Fiber in place.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
oregon shayAs for the gray shrubs to the left of the trees, did you make those as well, as if so, what materials did you use?
The model sagebrush are made from 3M synthetic steel wool (a coarse gray scrub pad material). It's pulled into small pieces, coated with Super 77 adhesive, and covered with ground foam. I like AMSI "Eucalyptus" and Accurail's "Sagebrush" colors.
Synthetic steel wool can be used for all kinds of shrubbery. I used it for many of the shrubs in this scene.
Rob,
Those are about the most realistic trees I've ever seen. As for the gray shrubs to the left of the trees, did you make those as well, as if so, what materials did you use?
Wilton.
HObbyguy,
You mentioned the lack of height variety using the tree making kit. I walk the road I live on out here in cow country, and find many suitable armature-type materials. Sage is good, and grows several feet tall. There are several others that I don't know the name of as well. I have also used cuttings from my privet shrubs in the yard. I have seen modelers use the heads from yarrow, a tall shrub-like flower. The point I guess is the height variety that you can achieve from looking for materials out in nature.
The row of trees along the backdrop are all made with natural cuttings from my surroundings, except for the conifers, with are Woodland Scenics and Grand Central Gems. I use diluted white glue or hairspray to attach the ground foam to the armatures, and sometimes use poly fiber to bulk-up the shape first.
HObbyguySo, here's the question- are there any advantages or disadvantages to the different adhesives long-term, or is it just a matter of taste? I would hate to have "leaves" falling off or turning an un-natural color a few months or years down the road.
Hairspray CAN fail over time, but not always. Of the adhesives commonly used for making model trees, I've seen and experienced hairspray failing most often. I haven't seen it causing discoloration, but it can become brittle and lose its grip. After all, it wasn't formulated to be permanent. Something like 3M Super 77 has serious durability. Matte medium is somewhere in between.
These trees were built from Supertree armatures glued to sagebrush trunks, and the leaves are attached with Super 77.