OK CALL ME DUMB, STUPID, OR KNUCKLEHEAD ( like my dad did when he was alive) but I need real answers please. I am using SHINOHARA turnouts and PECO flex track , all code 100 ( new to hobby after many years wanna make it simple). I have watched videos on youtube , read every article I could find and now I just called my LHS and still dont know what to do!! My layout is in an uncontrolled area meaning there is only a propane heater for winter and nothing for summer, no insulation in the inclosed porch that my wife said is now my hobby room ( DONT ASK! ). My questions are #1 do I really need to leave gaps between rails for expansion and if so what gap size is good. #2 - I am using PECO flex track as I said and all the videos I watch say to put the notched ties to the inside of the curve and I get that but PECO track has cut ties on BOTH sides staggered every 4 ties so when I bend the track 1 of them always ends up slipping out of the rail joiner at the starting point ( like the switch end ) not to mention the ties become crooked from the raidius.# 3 I just called my LHS for some advise and told them that I was using 1/2" plywood with 1/2" homosote for roadbed and they told me that should be painted so it dose not expand and contract!!! can anyone help me so I dont just give up like I did years ago!!! THANKS JOE
It's not that the track expands and contracts - even over a wide temperature swing, the difference in 100 feet of rail is a small fraction of an inch. It's the base materials that change to a greater extent - and mostly through humidity rather than temperature. What to do now depends on your climate. Where I am, it's cold and dry this time of the year. Provided the wood has been sufficiently dried, right now things would be at their smallest size. When summer comes, it gets very humity around here, and wood will swell. If your climate is like that, I'd lay the rail pretty tight now, because the gaps will open up in summer. If it's more of the oppsite, humid now and dries out later, leave gaps, or else whent he wood shriking the rails will kink. How muich gap? It doesn't have to be much, a sixteent of an inch is plenty. Over the length of the track there will be enough gaps to absorb any changes. You don;t want to leave big giant gaps since this will cause problems with keeping the track in alignment and could lead to derailment issues.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Thanks Randy , I am in eastern PA. and its cold and dry here too so do I try to seal my homosote or just let it as is , I have never used homosote before I always used cork roadbed in the past but was afraid too do to humidity where my layout is now. its get really hot if I don,t keep an eye on it
Hey Joe, take it easy.......... the good folks here can and will help you out, but lets take it one question at a time.
As Randy wrote, its the underlayment that expands and contracts, and not so much the track itself. I found this out the hard way a couple years ago. A good practice is to let your lumber dry out, and then paint it on both sides.
Homosote is something we don't normally use down here (Gulf Coast) as it absorbs moisture. But if I did (if I could even find it), I would paint it thoroughly to seal it as best I could.
You are using very good track, and that's a good thing. Considering that you are putting the layout in a closed in porch, and the temps will definitely vary, I would put gaps in the rails. Just my best guess, but I would gap every 4 feet, with the gaps being well staggered (i.e. don't gap the left rail where you gapped the right rail). An easy way to gap is to lay the track, make sure it is how you want it, and then make a slice with a Dremel cutting disc. When doing this, be careful, and WEAR EYE PROTECTION!!!
Laying curves with flex track is a knack, only learned by experience. On my current layout, I would bend a section by hand and mark where the longer rail would need to be cut (to somewhat match the shorter rail). Then I would un flex it, and with a pair of rail nippers make the cut. Then, file off the rough edges, and nip off the excess ties. Save the ties, for you will slide the under the tieless joints later on. Then, install your track and secure it down, and to the previous section.
Ok, may I add.......... This is a hobby, so take it easy. Do one step at a time, and make sure it is right and you are happy with it before moving on.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
It's the wood framing and surface, plus the roadbed that swells in humidity and pulls joins apart. The opposite problem happens when the wood shrinks as it dries too much seasonally. Tight joints haven no compression left, and the track has to give. It make a big bow sideways, but sometimes in a hill.
For flex track, the best practice is to solder the joiners together with the rail lengths laid out flat and joined on a flat bench. Bend the two to form your curve, but let the inside rails on both ends slide outward. You can trim those later. The soldered joiners make for a strong joint that won't kink...very important.
If you would like to try it, you can slide the one inside rail into the spike heads of the other section and bend them to the curve you need. Hold it all in place and solder the joiners. For the inside rails, they'll meet between two closely spaced ties. Not ideal place for a joiner, but if you slice off a tie or two that interferes, you can set the curved length into place where you need it and then slide the ties under the joint. However, you'll need to file or to sand off the spike heads and most of the tie plate on which the spike heads rest. In other words, make vertical gap for the joiner thickness.
Crandell
thanks for the input CRANDELL , you are the first person to mention solder witch I left out of my original post, however the information I have been seeing says never solder joints in extreme temp. changes. is that true?
Oh, so near me then. So I do know the kind of weather you get
If your space is anything like my back porch, which is unheated and uninsulated, and has lots of big windows, it is unbearably hot out there int he summer. My laundry is there and I've had the big dispenser bottles of laundry soap literally melt into shape over the back of the washer. And now - it's freezing out there.
Not a place I would build a layout.
Thats it Randy minus the washer and dryer. I can heat when I am working out here and be ok in a t-shirt , but when I am done it gets cold at night! Not sure what is gonna happen in summer, I can open 8 windows but with 6' high fence not much air moves through here
Have you considered building on extruded foam? It reacts much less to climate changes than wood. As mentioned above, other parts of your layout may be effected by the wide swings in climate.
When making gaps, I have seen a number of folks say they have used a spacer made from a sheet of styrene, 0.06" if I remember correctly. Just stand it between the rail ends, secure your track, pull it out and move on to the next joint.
Good luck,
Richard
I would solder on the curves to keep the joints strong, but I would let the tangent lengths slid in non-soldered joiners. Just do solder feeders to every such sliding length; don't count on the sliding joiners for continuity. The feeders do a much better job.
As Richard suggests, using 1.5" foam or 2" foam would be a better choice in your porch room. Fasten the rails to roadbed if you wish, but use acrylic latex caulk because it will have some give. Just don't solder every joiner. The big thing, to me, will be direct sunlight. It will guarantee you two, maybe three years of use of your unpainted/weahtered/ballasted ties. That's it. They'll literally evaporate, the spike heads will let go, and your rails will do really weird things. You'll have to shield the ties from UV. Even blinds will be a big help.
Joe 10 years ago I built a 12 X 16 2 story shop downstairs is my shop and upstairs is my RR. No insulation pretty close to your problem. I have found living in North Carolina that with temp change Shinohara turnouts and peco, and Micro Engineering track requires at the min .015 clearance. Sometimes it takes trial and error. I have learned over the years be careful as to what type of track you put in your area. Track that is more precisionly made like Micro Eng. needs climate control temp within 15 deg I've learned vs Atlas code 100 which has looser ties for room to expand.also watch the video on laying track by Cody Grivno. it is very informative. Good luck. Also there are some good track laying text like " How To Build Realistic Reliable Track". By M.R. It has helped me allot
NickyB
In a harsh environment like that - I second using alternative materials. Extruded foam insulation doesn;t have much expansion and contraction, and pretty much none with humidity. Cork roadbed would probably dry out baking in the sun all summer, so Woodland Scenics foam roadbed would probably be a better option. Wood for the frame is probablky ok but in extremes it may pop the foam off - steel studs are an alternative.
I agree that most of the traditional benchwork products may pose trouble in that environment. Many have given good advice to maintain some stability throughout radical temp/ humidity changes. I'm not a great fan of the extruded foam as I prefer open grid and cookie cutter approach mainly for ease of elevation changes, bridge placement and drastic scenery contours. The foam base would provide a stable base and if your layout is to be relatively flat and/or have minor elevations it would be a good method. Other materials as metal stud benchwork or the use of masonite splines on traditional grid w/ risers would also allow for stability in that somewhat uncontrolled enviorment . Insulating the porch as best as you can and some window tint/ blinds may also help. You will probably find that a small room size A/C will work wonders for summer layout enjoyment.
I have a back porch quite similar to you. The climate here in Boston is not that much different either. If I had to build a layout in that space, I would build the room to more of a "real" 3 season room w/ elec baseboard and AC.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org