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Lakes and rivers

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  • Member since
    December 2012
  • 166 posts
Posted by matthewd5 on Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:30 PM

Great water effects...

im doing a layout with a rather large river emptying to a ocean harbor

im a bit stuck on prepping the little details like painting the areas that will be the high water mark as I'm using magic water and I'm not 100% sure where the high water line will be

im thinking the best bet is to do a "dry" run where I just fill it with a measured amount of water and then somehow find a non permanent way to mark that line...

Any suggestions?

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, February 24, 2013 2:50 PM

Thanks for your kind remarks, guys. Embarrassed


The plaster and paint method is an alternative to resin-type "water" products, but you should choose the method best-suited to what you wish to accomplish.  There's no single "right way" to represent water.


Wayne

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Washington, IL
  • 15 posts
Posted by AussieRescueIL on Sunday, February 24, 2013 1:26 PM
Wayne,

That is one of the most realistic water scenes I have seen. Wow!

Dave
  • Member since
    December 2012
  • 166 posts
Posted by matthewd5 on Sunday, February 24, 2013 10:29 AM

Your work is amazing, it's as good or better than any of the DVDs, books or layouts at shows that I've ever seen!

my layout is about 1/3rd water between a long river emptying out to a harbor/Oceanside 

i never thought of painting on top of the texture effect, everyone always paints under the clear water effect, I have a 2'x2' practice piece, I'll have to try airbrushing a layer of magic water

matthew

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: US
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Posted by jmbjmb on Saturday, February 23, 2013 9:07 PM

Drwayne that is awsome.  I especially love the looking outward from the shore over the lake effect.  Usually we see the opposite modeled where we're standing in the "sea" looking toward shore.  The view you create is closer to what we usually really see.

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, February 23, 2013 1:30 PM

Alan, I think that not much skill was required, as these were my first attempts.   I probably should have done a small "test run" off-layout, but I often like to jump right in when I think I can do it.  Whistling   I'm satisfied with the results, but it's only one of many ways to create "water".


Wayne

  • Member since
    November 2011
  • 27 posts
Posted by iwander on Saturday, February 23, 2013 12:22 PM

Thanks Wayne for the great photos. Your skill level is way beyond my capabilities but I'll try.

alan

  • Member since
    November 2011
  • 27 posts
Posted by iwander on Saturday, February 23, 2013 12:17 PM

Thanks for the info. I'll look it up.

  • Member since
    November 2007
  • From: California
  • 2,388 posts
Posted by HO-Velo on Friday, February 22, 2013 12:49 PM

Oops, sorry, spoke too soon, just talked to my son, he didn't use acrylic gloss medium over the paint, he used an Ace-hardware product, Poly-finish water based gloss.  As the gloss finish dried, he stippled in the "chop".

regards,  Peter

  • Member since
    November 2007
  • From: California
  • 2,388 posts
Posted by HO-Velo on Friday, February 22, 2013 12:39 PM

Wow, Doctorwayne, that is some great work, fantastic!  My son did this little experimental water scene, he airbrushed the shiny side of a small piece of masonite with acrylic paint, then coated and stippled the surface with a couple of coats of acrylic gloss medium.  Don't know if this method qualifies as "cheap" as I don't know the cost of gloss medium.  While this method looks good, especially when photographed, it loses a lot of effect from certain viewing angles and lighting.  Cost and difficulty aside, to my eye the depth and clarity of two part epoxy is hard to beat and from any viewing angle or lighting.

regards,  Peter

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Friday, February 22, 2013 11:08 AM

Mike, thanks for your kind words. Big Smile


I used Durabond-90 patching plaster for my water features.  It's a hard plaster which contains a catalyst, and the setting time, in minutes, is represented by the number following the name.  It comes in setting times of either 45 or 90 minutes.  It will set regardless of how thick or thin the mix and regardless of the thickness of the application, and it won't crack even in thick applications.

The riverbed is 3/8" sheathing plywood, supported by a 1"x4" open grid framework, with the joists 16"o/c.  The bridge piers and abutments are also Durabond, cast in homemade moulds made from .060" sheet styrene.  They were attached to the plywood using yellow carpenter's glue.


After first removing the bridge (it lifts out as a single unit)  I sprayed some "wet" water onto the plywood to prevent it from drawing too much water out of the Durabond.  The "water" is a fairly stiff mix (about the consistency of peanut butter), and I simply slopped it on and then levelled it as best I could with various drywall knives.  I then used a narrow drywall knife to "tease up" some turbulence around the piers - this step was repeated as necessary until the plaster began to set, as this was my first attempt and I was unsure of exactly when the setting would begin.  After allowing it to fully cure (I left it a couple of days, as it's only about 1/8" thick), I used a 2" or 3" brush to apply a coat of flat interior latex house paint - I used a dirt brown which is my basic "earth" colour, and a dark grey/green which is used on some background trees, applying them wet so that they could be blended somewhat where the colours meet.  The next day, I used a 1/2" brush to apply some PollyScale Reefer White to the turbulent water.  After a couple of days, the entire river got three coats of water-based high gloss urethane, applied according to the manufacturer's instructions.


Here's a look in the opposite direction:


...and one from above:


I used pretty-much the same techniques to model the shallower and faster-flowing Chippawa Creek, seen here during an especially dry summer:

...and after the deluge:




I had an area near Port Maitland which I was originally going to model as a swampy spot, but instead I opted to make it an inlet of Lake Erie.  This allowed me to include a fish packing plant, a much-needed additional industry.
This spot was already done as a land area, using Durabond over aluminum window screen, as is most of the rest of the layout, so after a spray of wet water, the area was filled with a stiff mix of Durabond.  Much of it is almost 2" deep.  Here, I wanted to have some choppy waves, plus the effect of small waves breaking on the shore.  To create the "chop", I dabbed at the surface of the plaster with a damp sponge, lifting small peaks of plaster.  To create the curl of a wave, I used a drywall knife, dipping straight into the wet plaster, then moving it away from shore as it was lifted, then back towards the shore - again, this process was repeated until set-up commenced.    I think that this scene would be better if it were deeper, but the layout here is only 20" from aisle to backdrop.

- again, this process was repeated until set-up commenced. 


A closer view:


...and as seen from above (picture courtesy of Secord Air Services):


Wayne

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,483 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Friday, February 22, 2013 6:53 AM

iwander
Cheap water ideas world also be greatly appreciated.

I use Envirotex Lite for my water.  It is not cheap, but it's a great product that produces great results.  It also has a very long shelf life if kept properly sealed between uses.  I finally used the last of my first bottles a few weeks ago, after about 5 years of small to medium-sized bodies of water.  Buying a big jar of something that is going to harden before you've used a third of it may be cheaper to begin with, but the economy vanishes if you can't use most of it.

And now for that "cheap trick."  Go to www.michaels.com or www.acmoore.com and find their weekly coupons.  One of them always seems to have a coupon good for 40% or 50% off of one item.  That will bring down the cost of any of the popular "water" products considerably.  The two competing craft stores will accept each other's coupons, too.  I've found that Michaels is more likely to actually have Envirotex in stock, although both generally carry it.

While you're there, browse the aisles of craft stores.  They have lots of things we use all the time, like paints, brushes, balsa wood and stuff to make trees from, generally cheaper than train-shop prices, too.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Brisbane, Australia
  • 784 posts
Posted by mikelhh on Friday, February 22, 2013 12:09 AM

Forum member doctorwayne has some of the best waves on his layout. From memory I think it's paint and varnish over waves that were sculpted in plaster.   Hopefully he'll join in here. You could always shoot him a PM.

Mike

Modelling the UK in 00, and New England - MEC, B&M, D&H and Guilford - in H0

  • Member since
    November 2007
  • From: California
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Posted by HO-Velo on Thursday, February 21, 2013 8:15 PM

The June 2010 issue of MR had a small article about using silicone caulk  for modeling water, it was part of a featured layout called the Suarez Southeastern RR.

Peter 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Central Vermont
  • 4,565 posts
Posted by cowman on Thursday, February 21, 2013 7:49 PM

I have seen posts where folks have used matte medium gel for ripples and moving water. 

In a recent post, they had "teased" the Envirotex as it cured.  Looked good but sounded like a lot of time and work to me.

For moving water some use clear silicone caulk, expecially for waterfalls.

Good luck,

Richard 

  • Member since
    November 2011
  • 27 posts
Lakes and rivers
Posted by iwander on Thursday, February 21, 2013 6:04 PM

I remember the MR had an article which mentioned the use of a DAP product to mimic waves and currents but I can't find it again. Does anyone have an idea how to make waves without using "WS water effects" which is way to expensive? Cheap water ideas world also be greatly appreciated.

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