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Lakes and rivers

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  • Member since
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  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, March 28, 2013 8:36 AM

doctorwayne


The plaster and paint method is an alternative to resin-type "water" products, but you should choose the method best-suited to what you wish to accomplish.  There's no single "right way" to represent water.

I seemed to have missed this thread when it first appeared about a month ago.

I have just emerged from a 4 month ordeal using Woodland Scenics Realistic Water to model a river in an urban environment (the south branch of the Chicago River in downtown Chicago).

Admittedly, I brought this on myself by making the river bed too deep, requiring a 1/2 inch pour in stages.  Woodland Scenics instructions call for pours at a depth of 1/8 inch or less and recommends no more than two pours.  I poured Realistic Water in 1/8 inch or less increments, and it took 5 pours over a 4 month period, because it took as long as 50 + days each for two of the pours to clear.

Throughout this period, in addition to being tempted daily to tear it out and start all over, I often thought about just painting the Hydrocal river bed, just like the first time, followed by a varnished finish as an alternative to Realistic Water which I will never use again.

After reading this thread and viewing the photos, that is surely what I will do next time.

Rich

 

Alton Junction

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Posted by matthewd5 on Thursday, March 28, 2013 9:25 AM
I've had much better luck with magic water

I have done some deep pour tests and it cures overnight and is pretty much crystal clear

So far on my layout I've only used it on the river section, I'm working my way down to the ocean/harbor

Matthew
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Posted by Mavryk on Thursday, March 28, 2013 10:11 AM

I've used magic water only in a test making a small pond. Wasn't overly impressed. It was only one pour of roughly 1/8" deep, but was very bubbley. The water effects turned out nice, however. Was thinking of trying the water effects on the plaster water and seeing how that turns out. But for the price tag attached to magic water, I won't be using that again.

 

Lorne

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  • From: Visalia, California
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Posted by dcfixer on Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:36 PM

Mavryk

I've used magic water only in a test making a small pond. Wasn't overly impressed. It was only one pour of roughly 1/8" deep, but was very bubbley. The water effects turned out nice, however. Was thinking of trying the water effects on the plaster water and seeing how that turns out. But for the price tag attached to magic water, I won't be using that again.

 

Lorne

Sorry to hear of your troubles with Magic Water.  There's a couple of important points about using Magic Water that may be of interest and worth repeating.

(1) The 2 part MW must be mixed really well before pouring.  Not fast and hard, but a gentle stir until the mix turns clear again - no streaks.

(2) When teasing  MW during it's last hours of cure, to get a texture, there's a point where it's cured too far, and more teasing will trap air bubbles permanently and the mix will start to cloud.  Stirring/teasing 1/4 - 1/2 inch deep Magic Water at this point in the cure really made it bubbly and cloudy.  For the surface texture, I kinda paint on partially cured MW (after about 12 hrs of cure) with a craft stick on top of the fully cured level pour, teasing and spreading it around about every 15 mins until it gets too cured.  I have not been able to achieve a very high/coppy texture. The MW keeps settling a little.  I use the gel (both medium and thick) to get more roughness and a higher chop where desired.

When I tried the MS Realistic Water, it lost too much volume and cupped a lot at the edges.  I never experienced these long cure times with it, though, that others have reported. Confused  The cured Realistic Water was soft and scratched easily. 

The cured MS Water Effects discolored on a test falls within 24 hours when I covered it with Magic Water.  I have had no such reactions when using the Liquitex gel and Red Devil caulk with the MW.

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Posted by selector on Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:19 PM

I prepare a vessel to contain the pour, even to the extent of using hydrocal or plaster of Paris.  I paint the bottom and banks, and then make a least two pours of a two-part epoxy, a finish grade epoxy.  I tint the epoxy and add a pinch of plaster of Paris to make it appear to be turbid.

The top layer is stippled gel gloss medium.

Crandell

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  • From: Visalia, California
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Posted by dcfixer on Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:57 PM

Real nice, Crandell.Smile

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Posted by JoeinPA on Thursday, March 28, 2013 5:53 PM

Crandell:

You have nicely captured the look of turbid water. To me it looks more real than the effect you get with just adding paint for color. I'm going to file our idea of adding a little plaster to the mix to use when I finally get around to adding water to layout.

Joe

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  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
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Posted by selector on Thursday, March 28, 2013 7:55 PM

Thanks, guys.  Joe, I can't stress enough that I'm talking about a 1/4 tsp of the plaster powder in about two cups of the epoxy mixture, and I only do this for the topmost layer of two or three.  In this case, I poured two clear layers and left it for about three years.  I got tired of the artificial look and  added the tinted and plastered layer over it, plus a fourth layer of the stippled gel gloss medium atop that last epoxy pour.

Note the look prior to the two top layers, both clear:

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Posted by matthewd5 on Thursday, March 28, 2013 8:45 PM
Selector, I'm confused, are you saying the top two layers being transparent with the color only being under those clear layers got to be old?

I'm getting torn between just an 1/8" of magic water or like an inch or so of magic water

I was planning on my river being transparent and then going to tinting at the line where you crossover to the ocean/harbor

Matthew
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  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
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Posted by JoeinPA on Thursday, March 28, 2013 9:12 PM

Crandell:

Thanks for sharing your method. The contrast between the two photos really illustrates the effect of adding the plaster to the finish layer. The water looks just like the creeks I used to wade in as a boy.

Joe

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Posted by selector on Thursday, March 28, 2013 11:38 PM

Matthew, the last photo, just above, is what it looked like with the first two clear layers that I left as-is for about three years.   I then added one more epoxy layer with the tiny pinch of the plaster powder and a half drop of Huader Medium Green from the craft paints at Wal Mart.  Once that cured fully, I spread the gel gloss medium like a thin layer of mustard, and turned the brush on its side to stipple the gloss medium.

Note that each of the layers, except the thin top layer of gel gloss medium, amounted to a thickness of about 1/4" or less, usually less.   Don't pour depths of over 1/4" if you can help it because it may do weird things, or so I have read.

Crandell

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Posted by matthewd5 on Friday, March 29, 2013 12:28 AM
I'm going to try out the pinch of plaster with water tint on my test board as I really like that shot of the two canoes, that is exactly what im looking for!
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Posted by mononguy63 on Friday, March 29, 2013 8:53 AM

For this little creek, I just put down a layer of plaster over my plywood base and glued some broken rock casting pieces to it. Used craft paint washes for the rocks, letting the washes run and mix in the creek bed to color it. The water is just a few layers of Modge Podge stippled on with a foam brush. Cheap, easy, quick, and pretty effective.

Jim

"I am lapidary but not eristic when I use big words." - William F. Buckley

I haven't been sleeping. I'm afraid I'll dream I'm in a coma and then wake up unconscious.  -Stephen Wright

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Posted by matthewd5 on Saturday, April 6, 2013 1:50 PM

selector

Matthew, the last photo, just above, is what it looked like with the first two clear layers that I left as-is for about three years.   I then added one more epoxy layer with the tiny pinch of the plaster powder and a half drop of Huader Medium Green from the craft paints at Wal Mart.  Once that cured fully, I spread the gel gloss medium like a thin layer of mustard, and turned the brush on its side to stipple the gloss medium.

Note that each of the layers, except the thin top layer of gel gloss medium, amounted to a thickness of about 1/4" or less, usually less.   Don't pour depths of over 1/4" if you can help it because it may do weird things, or so I have read.

Crandell

There was a video tip on here from the magazine and they used magic water and said that you can't use acrylics, that you had to use oil based...never heard this before

matthew

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Posted by selector on Saturday, April 6, 2013 3:15 PM

The epoxy I used was made by Swing Paints.  It is a fine finish quality epoxy of the kind you would pour over a large wood tree trunk slab that would end up as a table at a cottage....that type of finish.  The product is called 'Nu-Lustre 55".  There should be similar kinds at your hardware/paints stores.

I consulted the Swing Paints forum on their site and they said that it shouldn't be a problem with only a tiny amount of acrylic paint, even though their instructions say not to use any water-based products mixed with the epoxy.  So, I figured I was okay, and the result is what you see.

When you squeeze one of those small plastic vials with the acrylic craft paint from Wal Mart, with the vial held at right angles to the floor, you would just touch a bamboo skewer to the paint and then begin to mix the two liquids that form the epoxy, resin and hardener.  The paint tints it nicely, unless you are mixing a substantial batch totalling six cups, say.  My batches were never more than about two cups because I like shallow pours and I only ever make small 'river' surfaces...otherwise it gets very costly..  So a swipe or two into the gob of paint that appears when you squeeze the tipped vial a bit, will be lots of tinting for the topmost of two or three layers that will comprise all the epoxy you intend to use.  The amount of plaster powder would come to about 1/4 teaspoon.  Mix really well (!) pour, let it find its reach on its own, but you can aid it by using the skewer to stretch it toward the far reaches...or just mix and pour another batch within about 10 minutes if it looks like you haven't mixed enough.

Crandell

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