I just pulled an old layout out of storage that been there for a few years. I was surprised to see my waterfalls had turned an ugly brown. I’m trying figure out exactly what it was that turned brown so I don’t make the same mistake again.
I used white acrylic latex and paint to make the white splash of the water fall. I also used Mod Podge as recommended to give the bottom a water look, but all of it was encapsulated under plastic resin. BEFORE
After storage
What might have happened is that the resin reacted with the paint. The fact that the paint has changed so much suggests it was the problem. If too much hardener is added some resins will turn slightly brown, but they will also usually shrink away from the sides. That doesn't seem to have happened. If the resin had gone slightly brown what you would see is a darker river, not lighter. That clearly points to the paint and/or a reaction between the paint and the resin. Perhaps a sealer coat on the paint, i.e. shellac, would prevent the reaction.
In my youth I decided to preserve a carnation that had been given to me by a person I dated. I decided to preserve it forever in resin. Unfortunately I added too much hardener and the resulting heat cooked the flower to a nice dull brown. Actually, if I remember correctly the carnation was all I ever got out of that relationship!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Bummer! I'm really sorry. Exactly my worst fear when using clear mediums. The falls?!!? Looks like everything turned to me. I can't answer your question, and am not sure I will ever be able to, but I'll try to help. Could you please provide some brand/product names - the latex, the plastic resin, etc? Was the paint water based acrylics or what?. Maybe it was the mixing of products. Did any product claim "not to yellow"? Since it's ruined anyway, try chipping out a chunk of the resin, and see if it's that, the Mod Podge or area where they meet. I'm not familiar with Mod Podge. I can say this, I have used different brands/kinds of clear and white acrylic latex in the tube to do some exterior and interior sealing/patching. Not only did some of it never turn completely clear, but some of it yellowed in a couple of years.
DC
http://uphonation.com
Pollution maybe, or did they put in a frack well near by. Sorry had to say it here in Ohio and near by Pa thats all you hear now. It does look like some type of reaction to your paint, was the storage heated or cooled that could also be a factor to the discoloration, high heat in a storage unit can really cause some drastic changes as some can tell you. Jim.
Waterfalls are white. As soon as the water breaks over the crest of the falls it turns to spray which is white, so, paint the falls portion white and you'll be good.
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Thanks for all the replies. I think it’s the mod podge, but the spring lake really turned brown and I think I had more acrylic latex caulking because I had sprung a leak and the resin was leaking out so I waited for it to dry and did it again with more caulking.
I’m going to remove the spring lake and just start over but I don’t want it to happen again so I’m just curious as to what everybody else is doing.
I found this old photo of spring lake before the resin
gondola1988 Pollution maybe, or did they put in a frack well near by. Sorry had to say it here in Ohio and near by Pa thats all you hear now. It does look like some type of reaction to your paint, was the storage heated or cooled that could also be a factor to the discoloration, high heat in a storage unit can really cause some drastic changes as some can tell you. Jim.
LOL I guess I could say it was from a frack well.
it was stored in an outdoor shed for maybe 3 years, but I'm not sure how many years, so it did probably did get hot.
dcfixer Could you please provide some brand/product names - the latex, the plastic resin, etc? Was the paint water based acrylics or what?. Maybe it was the mixing of products. Did any product claim "not to yellow"? Since it's ruined anyway, try chipping out a chunk of the resin, and see if it's that, the Mod Podge or area where they meet. I'm not familiar with Mod Podge. ..
Here is what I used and the paint of course was assorted colors. I don’t recall the brand of resin but it was the standard two part mix. I don’t think it was the resin anyway
FWIW, I kind of like the new color better. I think it looks more realistic, at least in your photos.
Yes it does, but there is another small fall farther upstream that doesn’t look so good, but I think I can just paint it. The lake has to go though.
When I was taking the photo of the paint supplies, I remembered that I had run out of the White acrylic caulking and sent my wife out to buy some more, but she returned with a cheap brand of the same type of caulking. I went ahead and used it, but I can’t remember if that was when I was doing the river or if it was on another layout that I was working on
Not only did your water change color, but so did you foliage. This screams light pollution to me. Plastics especially deteriorate quickly when exposed to UV light.
Put UV filters on your lamps, especially florescent lamps, and on the windows too. LION has UV protected windows, but these are still the same florescent lamps that were used when this was a classroom back in the 40s and 50s. I think I will talk to Br. John about getting UV filters for these lamps. I should be able to get the kind that just slip over the tubes.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Well it’s not UV because it was in an a shed with a sheet of plywood and a tarp over it. I also was storing boxes on top of the plywood so it was pretty dark on the layout.
The foliage was damaged buy the dust. I probably should have sealed it with duck tape to keep the dust out
Ok here is one after I cleaned it from a different view.
Oops wrong photo, this is it
Well, it certainly looks good to me. I am working on my model of the Gowanus Canal. Found material, stuck in place, will put more stuff on top of it, and then see what happens. LIONS do not plan very far in advance.
Whoa! Now that looks like a real project you have there and what a great bridge. I sure want to see it when you have it done.
Actually, I agree with that overgrown kitty cat who calls himself a lion. I don't think it looks unrealistic at all. Different, yes. Bad, no.
I think it must have beeen some kind of heat damage, too. But I wouldn't rip it out, just add some surface detail with acrylic gloss gel and white paint.
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CTValleyRR Actually, I agree with that overgrown kitty cat who calls himself a lion. I don't think it looks unrealistic at all. Different, yes. Bad, no. I think it must have beeen some kind of heat damage, too. But I wouldn't rip it out, just add some surface detail with acrylic gloss gel and white paint.
Any art supply or craft store which deserves the name will carry it. Michaels or AC Moore in the US will do. Liquitex is a common brand name. It's a thick paste that goes on white but dries clear. I've been using it for years to make waves, etc.
SleeperN06 CTValleyRR Actually, I agree with that overgrown kitty cat who calls himself a lion. I don't think it looks unrealistic at all. Different, yes. Bad, no. I think it must have beeen some kind of heat damage, too. But I wouldn't rip it out, just add some surface detail with acrylic gloss gel and white paint. Hmm "acrylic gloss gel", I haven't seen that stuff before but the name of sure sound right. I'll have to look for that Thanks
Thanks for the info, JonnyB.
The gloss gel medium that I have been playing around with is by Liquitex, is an acrylic polymer emulsion, and belongs to the latex group. It's not as thick has Effects, and I seem to be able to get a little smoother spread. Takes longer to cure than the effects, but it's pretty clear and durable.
Here's an excerpt that I got of the Liquitex site:
""When acrylic mediums are used as a size for some primed or unprimed cotton, linen, wood or hardboard, the water content may draw impurities out of the support as it dries. A yellow or brown discoloration in the medium may occur over time. It will only be noticeable in areas that are left unpainted. It occurs with all acrylic mediums currently used by major fine art paint manufacturers. Washing the canvas before use can greatly decrease or eliminate SID. It is not a problem if the mediums are mixed with paint or painted over. The amount of discoloration in the acrylic medium will vary depending upon: 1. Quality of the acrylic medium. The unique resin formulation used in all Liquitex® paints and mediums is clear, flexible and non-yellowing. 2. Thickness of the medium application. Gel mediums are more susceptible to SID than fluid mediums. They are thicker, contain more water and take longer to dry. 3. Substrate used. Different surfaces contain different colorants and contaminants. ""
Explains my experiences with acrylic latex. Couldn't find any product details/MSDS on the WS site, but I suspect that Realistic Water and Water Effects are acrylic emulsions, also. I would like to see a "non-yellowing" claim, though.
Wow thanks DC, that’s a lot of good information.
I’ve been thinking about this all day and after looking at everything, I believe that the acrylic latex caulk may have not cured properly before pouring on the resin which would have stopped it from curing by sealing it. It did get hot up in the rafters of the storage shed and the heat may have baked it inside the hardened resin.
I don’t believe it absorbed any coloring from the wood because I did seal everything with primer before I started the river. But I did put the acrylic latex caulk on pretty thick at the bottom of each water fall to add texture and it turned brown at each place it was on thick.
The worst of the browning was in the small lake bed. I mentioned earlier that I had a leak so when I redid it, I was in a hurry because the weather was turning cold fast and I didn’t have much time for the resin to dry outside. I really put the caulking in thick to be sure it wasn’t going leak again and I don’t think it had time to cure fully although it was dry to touch.
I have been away from home the last few days, but had an "experiment" drying while we were gone. Got home today, just checked it, and it had turned slightly yellow where I had covered fully cured Water Effects strips (acrylic latex??) with partially cured Magic Water ( 2 part resin). Going to try that again with the Liquitex gell medium.
FYI: This is my third attempt at waterfalls - all practice/experiment. They're built with 1/2cured Magic Water, Liquitex gloss gel, Red Devil Clear Caulk and white acrylic art paint applied on top of .015 clear styrene. All liquid products claim "non-yellowing". The white is too heavy with the foam/splash, but I was trying stuff. There's cured Liquitex strips and cured Red Devil strips stuck on with and covered with MW. There's a mixture of MW and Red Devil spread on. I laid in some rolled cotton threads that were soaked in the Liquitex gel. Laid in some patches of a fiber mess that I made from cotton and MW. Then a mixture of Liquitex gel and gloss white acrylic paint. Finished up with 3 sprayed coats of Krylon Crystal Clear. No immediate reactions noted. No yellowing after a week of curing/drying. In 10 years? Who knows, but this is the best shot I have come up with.
At this point, I think the OP's drastic problems were due to reaction(s) between some of his products. If some of that "dissimilar" mix wicked up into the scenery, then maybe that's why it turned. Throw in a little dust, heat, humidity...
Here's an email exchange I had with DAP:
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Don, Our 3.0 line is able to accept most latex paints. A lacquer finish may not be compatible with this product. You may wish to do a test application first to see if it yields the results you are looking for. We simply do not test for the compatibility of the results of lacquering this product in the long term. Best regards, JesseJesse HulsebergProduct Information SpecialistDAP Products Inc. | 2400 Boston Street, Suite 200 | Baltimore, MD 21224phone: 410.779.3218 | fax: 410.779.2062 | e-mail: jhulseberg@dap.comhttp://www.dap.com You’ll find us in all the right places. ®
Thank you for contacting DAP Products Inc. with your inquiry. We do not manufacture a sealant we claim cannot "yellow" over time. As you stated, exposure to UV and environmental conditions can certainly contribute to this.
We also recommend avoiding use of cleaners with bleach in them, as residual bleach may discolor the sealant. Best regards, Jesse Jesse HulsebergProduct Information SpecialistDAP Products Inc. | 2400 Boston Street, Suite 200 | Baltimore, MD 21224phone: 410.779.3218 | fax: 410.779.2062 | e-mail: jhulseberg@dap.comhttp://www.dap.com You’ll find us in all the right places. ®
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The tube of Red Devil Clear Caulk I got is really thick and tacky. Hard to work with, without mixing it with some MW, but that mixture results in a more translucent effect than the crystal clear MW.
Wow DC thanks for the information, I’m going to look for some of that.
I just cut the whole top of my spring lake off and made a larger version with a tunnel covering the track in back. I was already to start painting it last week so I sealed it with latex primer and then at the last minute I decide to fill the crevices and edges with Acrylic Latex Caulking. I waited over 24 hours and it was still sticky so I read the fine print only to discover that it takes 7 to 14 day before painting.
When I did this the first time I completed the entire job within 24 hours, so I really think the caulking never had a chance to dry. This time I’m waiting 14 days to be sure.
It’s a little too cold to use resin and I saw some rivers that someone from the UK did with clear varnish, so I bought a can of that and figured if it doesn’t work then I’ll wait until it warns up and do another coat of resin.
Now I may change my mind.