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Layout Planning Help

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  • Member since
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  • From: South Eastern, Wisconsin
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Layout Planning Help
Posted by MilwaukeeRoad on Sunday, December 9, 2012 4:44 PM

Hello all. 

I am recently reattempting to build a layout. I first tried when I was 13 but was frustrated with failure. Ever since then I always entertained myself with the idea of having a pristine layout. For Christmas, I asked my parents for the permission to build a new layout in my room. I am now a student in college and must live at home so it took some persuading. Nonetheless, I am having trouble designing the layout. Part of the persuasion process is having an elaborate plan. 

I already have a Broadway Limited SW1 ran on NCE DCC. I would like to incorporate point to point switching while having an urban atmosphere and possibly a yard. I like the idea of Walthers Background Buildings and would like to include those to achieve such an environment. Although I am 19, I am enthused with the 40s-50s era of railroading. Even though I have a SW1, in the future I'd like to have a medium sized steam locomotive (Consolidation, Mikado, etc) which could easily maneuver in the layout. 

My question, I suppose, is much needed help. I do not have the resources to accurately plan out a track plan on paper according to scale. As well as the possible location of magnets to decoupling and whatnot, I am quite stumped on this process... 

ANY ideas would be welcome. THANK YOU in advance!

Alex Czajkowski
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Posted by UPinCT on Sunday, December 9, 2012 5:36 PM

Made your link visible here

Photobucket

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Posted by MilwaukeeRoad on Sunday, December 9, 2012 6:24 PM

I appreciate the repost. I realized that I incorrectly uploaded the picture. The 6 foot side is supposed to be on top with the 5 foot side on the left. I used a scale of 1 inch equaling 1 foot. Thanks again!

Alex Czajkowski
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Posted by UPinCT on Sunday, December 9, 2012 6:42 PM

Oh another thing.

What scale would you like to model?  I am assuming you meant HO BUT given a small space N might be better.  Are you a MRR subscriber?  If so there is a track plan data base that might be a starting point for you.  

http://mrr.trains.com/How%20To/Track%20Plan%20Database.aspx

This shelf layout might be a starting point

http://mrr.trains.com/~/media/import/files/pdf/4/7/2/mrr-g0205_a.pdf

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Posted by MilwaukeeRoad on Sunday, December 9, 2012 7:10 PM

I should have specified... but yes, HO scale is what I am interested in. I already have a locomotive and rolling stock in that scale, so in my opinion it is too late to switch. And unfortunately, I am not a MRR subscriber. 

Alex Czajkowski
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  • From: Corpus Christi, Texas
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Posted by leighant on Monday, December 10, 2012 9:22 PM

I was going to suggest that even though you are mainly interested in a switching layout, you might want to consider making it possible to have continuous running.  Even for N scale, 2 foot layout width would be a bit tight.  I recently suggested to someone planning an L-shaped N layout 2 feet wide that he use larger radius end lobes and make up for it with a skinner layout in other places.  This is NOT your layout space diagram, but it is similar.

However, you say HO, which would rule out end turnback curves  in anything like 2-foot deep shelves, and thus rule out continuous running...

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Posted by rrebell on Tuesday, December 11, 2012 12:30 AM

In the space you have, a switching layout is what you will get, forget the larger steam but a smaller steam will do fine!

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Posted by MilwaukeeRoad on Tuesday, December 11, 2012 9:41 AM

I have a general idea of what I want to have in my layout, just not any clue as to how it would look in real life. I will post a sketched track plan soon. 

Alex Czajkowski
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Posted by cuyama on Tuesday, December 11, 2012 9:58 AM

This HO switching layout is roughly similar in size and arrangement and may give you some idea of what is possible. The structure footprints are all actual kits. You may not be interested in a "granger" portion of the Milwaukee Road, but at least you can get an idea of relative sizes of things.

Best of luck.

Byron

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Posted by Eric97123 on Tuesday, December 11, 2012 9:59 AM

MilwaukeeRoad

I have a general idea of what I want to have in my layout, just not any clue as to how it would look in real life. I will post a sketched track plan soon. 

If you have track, lay it out and see what you get.  You don't have to nail or glue it down right away.  As for buildings, use some  boxes for buildings, if you are going to have silos, some empty soda bottles or paper towel rolls will work.  A box may not be the actual size of the building but it will give some idea on clearance when going around a curve. 

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Posted by MilwaukeeRoad on Tuesday, December 11, 2012 10:10 AM

Alex Czajkowski
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Posted by MilwaukeeRoad on Tuesday, December 11, 2012 10:12 AM

Is the above plan feasible? As previously stated, I have no idea how to scale out track or what turnout I would specifically need. However, with this plan I have an enjoyable yard and the possibility of many background buildings/industries.

Alex Czajkowski
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Posted by cuyama on Tuesday, December 11, 2012 10:19 AM

MilwaukeeRoad
Is the above plan feasible?

Your turnouts are drawn much shorter and sharper than the space actually required for them. So no, unfortunately, not feasible as drawn. And with no runaround, that plan would be very difficult to switch.

In that tight of a space in HO, to-scale drawing is critical. This can be with CAD or hand-drawn with accurate turnout templates.

If you wish to design your own layout, careful study of John Armstrong's Track Planning for Realistic Operation is an important first step. Another good resource for switching layouts are Lance Mindheim's books. I like 8 Realistic Track Plans for Small Switching Layouts as a more general overview, How To Design A Small Switching Layout is also helpful.

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Posted by Eric97123 on Tuesday, December 11, 2012 12:10 PM

MilwaukeeRoad

Is the above plan feasible? As previously stated, I have no idea how to scale out track or what turnout I would specifically need. However, with this plan I have an enjoyable yard and the possibility of many background buildings/industries.

I would downloan Anyrail http://www.anyrail.com/index_en.html and give that a try.. You can put in the area you have to work with and it has rail and turn out sizes from the major makers of track.  You can play around with what will work and what wont.  In a space this small, less might be more. 

There was an LA area layout in either the Layout Planning or Great Model Railroad issues in the last couple of years that was very similar in the size you have to work with.  When I get home tonight I can look it up unless someone here knows which one it was. 

Or check out Lance Mindheim CSX layout of the Maimi area.   http://www.lancemindheim.com/index.htm

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Posted by cuyama on Tuesday, December 11, 2012 1:16 PM

Eric97123
There was an LA area layout in either the Layout Planning or Great Model Railroad issues

You are probably thinking of Keith Jordan's layout for "The Patch" in downtown LA from Great Model Railroads 2012. At roughly 8X8 in HO, it's a bit larger than the Original Poster's space. Keith Jordan's Patch website.

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Posted by Eric97123 on Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:04 PM

cuyama

Eric97123
There was an LA area layout in either the Layout Planning or Great Model Railroad issues

You are probably thinking of Keith Jordan's layout for "The Patch" in downtown LA from Great Model Railroads 2012. At roughly 8X8 in HO, it's a bit larger than the Original Poster's space. Keith Jordan's Patch website.

That is the one.. thanks! 

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Posted by rrebell on Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:11 PM

MilwaukeeRoad

Is the above plan feasible? As previously stated, I have no idea how to scale out track or what turnout I would specifically need. However, with this plan I have an enjoyable yard and the possibility of many background buildings/industries.

I find it easier to build the space, then photo copy the turnouts and for curves and straits use cheap sectional track, you can lay it out and actually see the spacing finding that sometimes a slight change can mean another spur.

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Posted by dehusman on Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:15 PM

Frankly the easiest thing to do is to buy a left and right hand switch of the size you want to use, then photocopy the switches.  Cut out the copies and lay them out on the benchwork or a piece of brown wrapping paper cut to the size of the benchwork.  then just play around with different options.

Here is a thread on a different forum that illustrates how you can use photocopy templates to look at your planning options.

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/9599

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by MilwaukeeRoad on Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:44 PM

I will have to try photocopying as posted above. No track plan program is compatible on my Apple unfortunately. 

Alex Czajkowski
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Posted by cuyama on Tuesday, December 11, 2012 11:33 PM

MilwaukeeRoad
I will have to try photocopying as posted above. No track plan program is compatible on my Apple unfortunately. 

Photocopied templates work fine, either full size or reduced to some scale.

As far as the Mac, some have used XTrakCad on the Mac, and there is Railmodeller, designed specifically for the Mac

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Posted by Paulus Jas on Wednesday, December 12, 2012 4:23 AM

Or design by the squares. You'll find the needed information in John Armstrong's Track Planning For Realistic Operation

An older plan by me,  the cassette can't be omitted.

The length of the lead or drill tracks has to be sufficient. The plan above does not lean on that much on switchbacks like in your original plan

Smile

paul

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Posted by MilwaukeeRoad on Wednesday, December 12, 2012 2:13 PM

Thank you very much for the much needed help guys. I honestly didn't expect such insightful and prompt feedback. I really enjoy the yard that was included on the "patch". Furthermore, Paul, you're plan is basically what I am striving to build. Instead of the cassette, I have space to add more operation in that area. 

Alex Czajkowski
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Posted by MilwaukeeRoad on Wednesday, December 12, 2012 8:49 PM

Paul, 

How do operations play out on your track plan?

Alex Czajkowski
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Posted by dante on Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:13 PM

cuyama

As far as the Mac, some have used XTrakCad on the Mac, and there is Railmodeller, designed specifically for the Mac

There is also Empire Express by Haddon Software.  Easy!

Dante

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Posted by Paulus Jas on Thursday, December 13, 2012 7:41 AM

Hi Alex,

1) imagine a train, engine up front on the cassette. After the train is on the layout proper, the engine will have to make a run-around-move.

2)The cars are then divided in two cuts, one for the facing spurs along the upper wall, the other cut for the trailing spur to the freighthouse. Here the small yard is handy.

3) Then the cars from the facing spurs are pulled and placed on a free yard track. After this is done the cars heading for these spurs can be spotted before their dedicated doors.

4) Then pulling and spotting cars for the freighthouse and team track is done. This will require some extra run-around moves.

5) the outgoing train can leave the area, back to the cassette.

The above could be made more complicated when the yard also is an interchange with an other RR. The number and length of cars can add a lot of problems. Anyway the maximum trainlength, due to limited length of the cassette and the run-around-track will be playing its limiting role here.

The engine service and drill track too can cause complications. If oil or sand are brought in by rail its length might partly be unfit for use. Pulling cars on this track might be needed before working the freighthouse track. The small yard comes in handy again.

BTW "How To Design A Small Switching Layout" by Lance Mindheim might be a good investment.

 Smile

Paul

 

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