I'm looking at the December issue of MR magazine. On page 58 they have an article about how to build a deep rocky ravine. Now, it looks awesome and I can't even imagine myself doing such nice work.
My question is this. HOW did he know what to do? How did he think ahead?
Did he make elevation or cross section drawings? I mean looking at the photos that accompany the article I'm stunned and amazed at his forethought. Can anyone please explain how this is done so there are no or few blunders? I know it takes a lot of experience but he HAD to think this through ahead of time right?
Thanks for any input.
Paul the newbie greenhorn JUST getting started and blown away at what he sees beginner.
Paul, I'm right there with you. I've often wondered "how did they know what and how to make it look so realistic".
David
After you've done it a couple times, you kinda get a feel for it. It takes a bit of trial and error. It comes with practice and experience. Now-a-days with so many of us using foam, if we don't like the way something looks, it's fairly easy to whack at it with a knife until we have something that looks better. I wouldn't be surprised if he had to mock it up more than once.
Brad
EMD - Every Model Different
ALCO - Always Leaking Coolant and Oil
CSX - Coal Spilling eXperts
Some modellers have a natural knack when it comes to various facets of the hobby, I would hazard a guess, that most of us while we can see in our "minds eye" what we would like to achieve,require practise, from which we hopefully gain experience. These practise attempts may just be a small cutting or rock out crop experimenting with different techniques, which may then lead to bigger things. Whether we achieve the" WOW factor" is sort of irrelevant, at least we've had a crack and hopefully had fun as well.
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Don´t get blown away by what you see in the mags or here. All of us were beginners at one time and we all had to learn the hard way - by trial and error.
Paul_in_GA My question is this. HOW did he know what to do? How did he think ahead? Did he make elevation or cross section drawings? I mean looking at the photos that accompany the article I'm stunned and amazed at his forethought. Can anyone please explain how this is done so there are no or few blunders? I know it takes a lot of experience but he HAD to think this through ahead of time right?
There is no such thing as :blunder free" in scenery...jsut taht some looks beter than others.
One can gather info live in person or online for certain scenes. He may have taken ctures of a ravene and used that as a guiide, or he may have been to one and knows what it looks like.
Blunders happen to even the best Modelers. But as mentioned, with certain products we can jsut redo it.
Did you ever watch Bob ROss, the late painter on PBS? He would start off with a background then fill it in by saying things like " maybe a tree lives here", and if he "made a mistake,, just turn it into a bush or something". He was very good at taking a blank canvas and tunring it into a masterpiece. The THing about Bob Ross is that you can have all the materials he does at your disposal and STILL not come up with what HE did!
Also, construciton master carpenters nad contractors {hopefully} ut into order the things that need to be done to build a house.
Engineers plan out what they build and HOW.
Study teh pics thoroughly and plan ahead as to what need to be done first. Then try to execute it as failthfully in order as you can.
Look at other Mags {MR and others } and they will have "how to's" on scereny order form start to finish on certain scenes. Do a google search for scenery tips.
If you get it done, remember if you don't like it you can tear it out, sand it down, and build anew one.
Have fun and ENJOY the hobby...its not rocket science and there are "no right or wrong scenery"! remember, even Mother NAture is not perfect!!!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Hi Paul, the newbie greenhorn JUST getting started and blown away at what he sees beginner.
What was it that Neil Armstrong said upon exiting his lunar module, one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind. You just start small and work up to something big.
Or as that Nike ad says, just do it. Just like laying track work, you gain experience by just doing it, trial and error.
If you notice, the modeler who built that deep rocky ravine is a pediatrician, not an artist, designer or decorator. Those photos that accompany the article clearly show how working with basic materials can achieve great results with the WOW factor.
And, as noted in the article, this was not the modeler's first effort. His previous efforts made not have been as spectacular, but he learned from his own experience as he improved his technique.
Take my own situation as an example. Back in 2007, i wanted to fill in an open space in a corner behind my layout. My layout was essentially flat, so mountains and ravines would be completely out of place. But, I wanted some modest elevation, so I set out to model a small ridge. Using nothing more than cardboard strips, crumpled up newspaper, plaster cloth and modeler's plaster, I modeled the ridge, then added ground cover. The result was nothing spectacular but, hey, it was my first effort.
Here is a photo of it.
Rich
Alton Junction
Nothing teaches better than "Hands-On" experience. Start with a small area and work up from there. Also, consider that there is a 50-50 chance that a blunder might work out to be an improvement!
I really don't think that working in one media; or, another (Foam or Hardshell) makes any difference as they are both very flexible. I have always used the cardboard strip/lattus type of terrain construction, which allows you to pretty much see the the "Lay of the land", before committing to it's shape by covering in paper towels dipped in plaster; or, plaster cloth.
The reality is: We all work to our own levels of artistic ability, which also improves over time. So above all be patient with yourself, learn to walk before you expect yourself to score the winning Touch Down!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Hi!
I've been an MR since the mid '50s and still ask that question!
For most of us (all?), its about planning. Most every deliberate thing we do has some planning in front of it - be it detailed written instructions, or a list of thoughts roaming in our grey matter. Obviously, for some of us it takes a lot more planning than others.
One recent example of the need and value of planning is my garage workbench project. It started out with freehand sketches, and when I settled on one, I made a scale drawing of front,sides, top, back.
From the drawings I built a scale model with scale lumber (1 inch = 1 foot). Doing that brought out some construction flaws, and as they say, "back to the drawing board". Three scale models later, I am ready to buy the lumber and "butcher some wood".
My point is, those fantastic projects and scenes we see on layouts had some significant front end planning beforehand. Reading the article tends to condense the project into a short time period, but I would bet my oil field that from concept to completion an awful lot of time, thought, and effort was put into play.
My second point is....... don't let that stop you. Start small, learn from mistakes, take notes, and try again.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
richhotrain Hi Paul, the newbie greenhorn JUST getting started and blown away at what he sees beginner. What was it that Neil Armstrong said upon exiting his lunar module, one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind. You just start small and work up to something big. Or as that Nike ad says, just do it. Just like laying track work, you gain experience by just doing it, trial and error. If you notice, the modeler who built that deep rocky ravine is a pediatrician, not an artist, designer or decorator. Those photos that accompany the article clearly show how working with basic materials can achieve great results with the WOW factor. And, as noted in the article, this was not the modeler's first effort. His previous efforts made not have been as spectacular, but he learned from his own experience as he improved his technique. Take my own situation as an example. Back in 2007, i wanted to fill in an open space in a corner behind my layout. My layout was essentially flat, so mountains and ravines would be completely out of place. But, I wanted some modest elevation, so I set out to model a small ridge. Using nothing more than cardboard strips, crumpled up newspaper, plaster cloth and modeler's plaster, I modeled the ridge, then added ground cover. The result was nothing spectacular but, hey, it was my first effort. Here is a photo of it. Rich
That looks nice Rich. That's where I'm at. Flatland and need some hills and valleys. Thanks for the pic!
mobilman44 Hi! I've been an MR since the mid '50s and still ask that question! For most of us (all?), its about planning. Most every deliberate thing we do has some planning in front of it - be it detailed written instructions, or a list of thoughts roaming in our grey matter. Obviously, for some of us it takes a lot more planning than others. One recent example of the need and value of planning is my garage workbench project. It started out with freehand sketches, and when I settled on one, I made a scale drawing of front,sides, top, back. From the drawings I built a scale model with scale lumber (1 inch = 1 foot). Doing that brought out some construction flaws, and as they say, "back to the drawing board". Three scale models later, I am ready to buy the lumber and "butcher some wood". My point is, those fantastic projects and scenes we see on layouts had some significant front end planning beforehand. Reading the article tends to condense the project into a short time period, but I would bet my oil field that from concept to completion an awful lot of time, thought, and effort was put into play. My second point is....... don't let that stop you. Start small, learn from mistakes, take notes, and try again.
Thank you all for responding.
Mobilman, I think you hit the nail on the head for me. It's planning. But HOW do they do it? I mean specifically? Did he make drawings first? Are there any layout plans where there are cross sections and elevation measurements? That's what I'm really asking I guess. When I see a layout plan I think cool but where's the third dimension? Up/down? A cross section would really help to visualize a project I think.
You will never know how easy, or how difficult, it is to do something until you actually try it.
I started by downloading some free layout planning software and learning to work it. I've already got a computer, so that part is free. Atlas has one, and XTrakCad is a more powerful program, but it's got a longer learning curve. I drew layout plans, enlarged the table space I was planning, and thought about how it would look and how it would work. I took old track and layed it out full-sized on the floor. Slowly, I had a plan.
Then, Mistake #1 set in. It's called "analysis paralysis." Those of us who believe in planning sometimes get it. Once that free planning phase is done, we fear the leap to Home Depot, or that first trip to the train shop with the credit card ready. You have to get over it. Nothing you're doing is permanent, and you will make mistakes. I'm not a doctor, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express, but I'm going to make a diagnosis right now. You already have analysis paralysis. Get over it. Buy some lumber and foam.
I've been working on my layout for 7 years now, and I put a lot of time into it. Just yesterday, I was looking at the Elevated Railways thread on General Discussions, and I really, really wanted to do that, but all the layout space is currently spoken for. Back to the drawing board. And that's OK.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasley You will never know how easy, or how difficult, it is to do something until you actually try it. I started by downloading some free layout planning software and learning to work it. I've already got a computer, so that part is free. Atlas has one, and XTrakCad is a more powerful program, but it's got a longer learning curve. I drew layout plans, enlarged the table space I was planning, and thought about how it would look and how it would work. I took old track and layed it out full-sized on the floor. Slowly, I had a plan. Then, Mistake #1 set in. It's called "analysis paralysis." Those of us who believe in planning sometimes get it. Once that free planning phase is done, we fear the leap to Home Depot, or that first trip to the train shop with the credit card ready. You have to get over it. Nothing you're doing is permanent, and you will make mistakes. I'm not a doctor, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express, but I'm going to make a diagnosis right now. You already have analysis paralysis. Get over it. Buy some lumber and foam. I've been working on my layout for 7 years now, and I put a lot of time into it. Just yesterday, I was looking at the Elevated Railways thread on General Discussions, and I really, really wanted to do that, but all the layout space is currently spoken for. Back to the drawing board. And that's OK.
I have the benchwork done, foam glued down and most of the track laid. I am in the process of building some structures to see how the rest of the track will fit. I was just curious about how people did elevation of the scenery and if anyone has done cross section drawings of scenery elevations.
I have some plan on what I want to do but right now it seems like I'm "on hold" for one thing or another.
I'm on hold for laying track till I get a building built and I'm on hold for the building till I get it painted and I'm on hold for paint which I'm gonna buy today.
That's just one example of being "on hold" as we used to say in the aircraft business. Always on hold for something.
Hi Paul,
IMHO you are rather uncertain about how to proceed with your modelrailroad. Many years ago, i am just retired, i asked a friend what to do, to make a girl wanting to be kissed by me. Was planning the right answer? Of course a shower, doing my hair and neat clothes would help. To find out not being to shy and going for it was the real answer.
But some basic planning is needed when building a modelrailroad. When you want deep ravines and rivers well below the railroad tracks a pure flattop sheet of plywood or foam might be not the best start.
A river with mills on both sides and mountains sloping down gradually will take quite some space. When you have a peek at the prize winning trackplan in the december issue you will see a small stream called the Boggie Gut Creek. A scene that could be developed into a riverscene with rapids and mills at both sides. Probably the sawmill with its spur has to be replaced a bit further down to create more space for the river banks.
Carefully looking at plans and the related pictures can give you an idea how much space is needed to create a certain scene. The biggest mistake often is not allowing enough space. No, the biggest mistake is thinking you need very detailed building instructions before starting out; you are not building a Boeing 787. Just go for it, if you do not succeed today, you might be more lucky tomorrow.
Smile
Paul
Paulus Jas Hi Paul, IMHO you are rather uncertain about how to proceed with your modelrailroad. Many years ago, i am just retired, i asked a friend what to do, to make a girl wanting to be kissed by me. Was planning the right answer? Of course a shower, doing my hair and neat clothes would help. To find out not being to shy and going for it was the real answer. But some basic planning is needed when building a modelrailroad. When you want deep ravines and rivers well below the railroad tracks a pure flattop sheet of plywood or foam might be not the best start. A river with mills on both sides and mountains sloping down gradually will take quite some space. When you have a peek at the prize winning trackplan in the december issue you will see a small stream called the Boggie Gut Creek. A scene that could be developed into a riverscene with rapids and mills at both sides. Probably the sawmill with its spur has to be replaced a bit further down to create more space for the river banks. Carefully looking at plans and the related pictures can give you an idea how much space is needed to create a certain scene. The biggest mistake often is not allowing enough space. No, the biggest mistake is thinking you need very detailed building instructions before starting out; you are not building a Boeing 787. Just go for it, if you do not succeed today, you might be more lucky tomorrow. Smile Paul
Thanks Paul.
I am going to cut into the foam and build a trestle bridge with wooden bents. One the other end I am going to make a mountain for the coal company with a tunnel through it. It's only 4 x 8 but I mocked it up and it'll work. It's just my first try but I think I can do it. I know I'll make mistakes and that's okay too.
My original question was does anyone on this Earth make cross section drawings of the scenery elevation BEFORE starting work? I have seen top-down views a million times but never once have I seen a cross section elevation view. Besides, I LIKE measurements. It wouldn't be that difficult to do. Maybe I should just do it myself on my next layout which won't be for several years anyway.
Cheers.
It takes some innate ability to visualize things in 3-D, and also how to create them from a supporting framework and on up. I am building a mountain currently that will be a lift-off structure. I created a frame over which I glued shapes of 1/2" plywood. Onto those shapes I hot-glued part of the under-structure, a critical component, and what was strips of aluminium window screen. Over the whole, I slather ground goop. If I want a cliff or gorge, I have to arrange the understructure to enable that. The window screen will have to be near vertical at some point...which, by the way, makes it a really tough bear to get the wet ground goop to stay in place. But, I create a dam near the screen and begin to build up from the bottom. I coudn't possibly create an 8" high cliff with wet ground goop in one sitting. The first lower layer, between the 'dam' and the screen must be placed first and allowed to cure.
Later, when the rough stuff is in place and the dam removed, I begin to carve carefully with carving tools. You can get them at tool supply outlets.
Seriously, an ability to visualize what you want and where it will be situated leads to the concept of the framing needed to build it.
Crandell
Paul_in_GA My original question was does anyone on this Earth make cross section drawings of the scenery elevation BEFORE starting work? I have seen top-down views a million times but never once have I seen a cross section elevation view. Besides, I LIKE measurements. It wouldn't be that difficult to do. Maybe I should just do it myself on my next layout which won't be for several years anyway. Cheers. Paul
As you advance you will learn a few tricks and as pointed out before, get a feel for it. I did not do cross sectional drawings.. I knew I wanted a hill in the middle of my climbing loop so once I got the loop done I got cardboard box and put in the middle to get a feel for the height, and asked myself do I need to go taller or shorter? Once I got the just right height I then glued the box down and started putting news paper around it to get a general shape of the hill and then followed up with paster. I also don't plan every detail as I got.. I used Anyrail to get an estimate of the layout shape I wanted and how the mainline was going to generally look but once I got the track down I adjusted as I got inspired and I still have a few spots with the track just tacked down because I know I want to add an industry but not sure just what yet. Also keep in mind we are our own worst critic when it comes to scenery. I am sure if you ask all of us we would point out all the things wrong with our layout that one else can see.
selectorSeriously, an ability to visualize what you want and where it will be situated leads to the concept of the framing needed to build it.
That's just it. Use photographs extensively to see how railroads are integrated with the real world, and start to think from there how the scenic components of a model railroad should be assembled. Books like Dave Frary's and Mike Danneman's show pictures of layouts in various stages of construction, and can be a big help illustrating how others do it.
Here are two photos of the same location on my layout, a couple years apart:
And after scenery:
Planning for the scene was done before any benchwork was started. My prototype photos showed me what I needed, and I built from there.
Rob Spangler
Hi Paul
I have just started to expand my layout. I wanted a railroad with a lot of operations so This is how I started.
1. Make a few scale drawings of your available space.
2. Make a scale drawing of the layout. Play around with the arrangement of the main line. This might take a few drawings until you get the one you like. Establish the mainline of your railroad on the drawing. Build your open grid whether shelf, penninsula etc. Do not put the deck on it until your have your wire bus, accessory bus run, and your track leads soldered on connected to the bus. This will save your aching back from bending and crawling under the layout.
3. Nex decide what era you want ot model.
4. Next look in a catalog for the main structures and industries that fit your era. Either buy the models or get the footprint of the structures. You can get these online in most cases.
5.Make a cardboard cutouts of the footprints. Be sure to label the foot print. Include where the tracks and spurs will be placed in relation to the structures. Don't forget about trucking and vehicular roadways.
6. Now lay the footprints on the deck in relation to your mainline.
7. Once you know where all your structures are to be placed, you can draw in your spurs, sidings, passing sidings, other non railroad highways, streets, parking lots, truck loading pads, etc.
8. Figure where you want you other landscaping features to be placed, such as hills, mountains, valleys, ravines, rivers, trestles, bridges etc.
9. Now before laying track over revines and rivers, be sure to landscape those areas so they are pretty complete. Do this before bulding your trestles, and bridges unless they can be lifted out. It's hard to landscape around those structures once they are permanently placed.
9. If making tunnels, be sure you can get to the track. Example have lift out mountains. If its a short tunnel and you want it permanent, be sure to lay and test your track before builing the tunnel.
There are so many things to think of and I didn't go into detail much here. But surf the internet for layouts that you like and try to mirror those, or at least parts of them.
If you are like me, I get antsy and want to get my mainline running, But take your time and take into account some of the pitfals I suggested here.
Hope this helps
Jim
This is Paul , the OP.
I guess what I meant was I would like a book that shows how someone did it from start to finish PHOTOGRAPHICALLY. I think it's kinda hard for me to explain.
The two photos someone posted before and after were cool, and it looks AWESOME! But if you look in the before photo you can see where he has different levels. What I want to know is HOW do you decide how HIGH or the SPACE between levels is going to be?
I have Pelle K. Soeborg's Rebuilding a Layout from A-Z and I am absolutely amazed. It is unreal and when I look at the photos I keep asking myself, "how in the world did he know AHEAD of time what to do? How did he know how high to make a section so a train could go under something, stuff like that.
Someone mentioned books of photos of building a layout from start to finish. Can anyone recommend any titles?
Thanks again to you all.
wp8thsub selectorSeriously, an ability to visualize what you want and where it will be situated leads to the concept of the framing needed to build it. That's just it. Use photographs extensively to see how railroads are integrated with the real world, and start to think from there how the scenic components of a model railroad should be assembled. Books like Dave Frary's and Mike Danneman's show pictures of layouts in various stages of construction, and can be a big help illustrating how others do it. Here are two photos of the same location on my layout, a couple years apart: And after scenery: Planning for the scene was done before any benchwork was started. My prototype photos showed me what I needed, and I built from there.
Show me green with envy. Envy of your talent and knowledge. This is stunning to me.
Well our hosts (Model Railroader) have some info here on their website, and publish several good books on doing scenery, which you can get direct from them or from the LHS (local hobby shop)....
http://www.kalmbachstore.com/modeltrains-railroading-model-railroading-books-scenery.html
I generally try to work out a good trackplan first, and then where buildings / industries will go, and then look at what scenery would fit best in the remaining areas. On a first layout, start simple with a gentle hill or something and see how it turns out. Try different methods.
One thing I'd also recommend is Woodland Scenics foam risers under the track. I generally use the 2" risers. That way you can do scenery above and below track level without having to cut into the benchwork to make a place for a valley or river.
wjstix Well our hosts (Model Railroader) have some info here on their website, and publish several good books on doing scenery, which you can get direct from them or from the LHS (local hobby shop).... http://www.kalmbachstore.com/modeltrains-railroading-model-railroading-books-scenery.html
Yes, and I have a bunch of them but they don't show step-by-step, start-to-finish photos. That's what I'm really looking for. I've even searched YouTube but there's nothing there I need also.
I wish I had a club nearby but I'm out in the boonies and there's no clubs for lots and lots of miles around.
Paul--
SOME understanding of where you want to end up is certainly essential when doing model railroading. Certainly, if you want your trains to run above a deep gorge, you need to build some vertical separation into your layout, either by raising the track or lowering the scenery.
But once again, you're stuck in the precision construction mindset. Yes, if you're building a fighter jet or a submarine, you have a detailed drawing (a metric butt-ton of them, actually) that shows you step by step every little detail that you need to do. But that's not what you're doing. Ever seen the guys design these things? I once watched a designer spend almost two full shifts at a CAD terminal trying to route a pipe through a given space without too many bends. Do you think he spend all that time just making pretty lines? He tried and failed about 20 different times before he got it to work. Were you born knowing how to ride a bicycle or solder? I bet your early attempts at both were rather pathetic, but you can do them pretty well now.
Same story here. The step by step pictures that you want WILL exist, some day, in your mind, after you've tried and screwed it up half a dozen times. You really do, as someone said, have to just stand there and say "does that look right?". If the answer is no, change it a little bit. The only time you have to do it just so is if you're trying to reproduce an exact replica of something (and even then, only the gross detail needs to be right -- the fine stuff won't matter).
And yes, we all understand that there is only so much of you to go around. Obviously, you have to pick which project you want to do today. Rome wasn't built in a day; nor will your layout be.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Paul_in_GAWhat I want to know is HOW do you decide how HIGH or the SPACE between levels is going to be?
Most of that for me is mockups in 3-D, plus trial and error. I try different arrangements with scrap wood, boxes, cardboard strips and such and they show me what's possible in the available space. I will often make a rough drawing first, but usually let the mockup show what will really work.
When you look at a photo that inspires the model scene, look for the general angle of slopes. You can go a little steeper on the model without looking strange. If you know how much horizontal space there is in your planned scene, you can judge how far the slopes can go above and/or below the track without exceeding a realistic angle. The math can "make" many of the decisions for you. Sometimes you have no option but to limit the height of a scenic feature because there's no horizontal space to go up or down as much as you'd like.
Here's another scene:
The grade separation between the two levels of track here was dictated by separation between two layers of benchwork elsewhere, and the need to maintain the grade between them. With that decided, I had to ensure there was sufficient horizontal space to model a realistic slope. At left the lower track negotiates a cut, as there wasn't enough space to model an appropriate natural hillside all the way to the lower elevation. Again, mockups showed what would look acceptable.
wp8thsub Paul_in_GAWhat I want to know is HOW do you decide how HIGH or the SPACE between levels is going to be? Most of that for me is mockups in 3-D, plus trial and error. I try different arrangements with scrap wood, boxes, cardboard strips and such and they show me what's possible in the available space. I will often make a rough drawing first, but usually let the mockup show what will really work. When you look at a photo that inspires the model scene, look for the general angle of slopes. You can go a little steeper on the model without looking strange. If you know how much horizontal space there is in your planned scene, you can judge how far the slopes can go above and/or below the track without exceeding a realistic angle. The math can "make" many of the decisions for you. Sometimes you have no option but to limit the height of a scenic feature because there's no horizontal space to go up or down as much as you'd like. Here's another scene: The grade separation between the two levels of track here was dictated by separation between two layers of benchwork elsewhere, and the need to maintain the grade between them. With that decided, I had to ensure there was sufficient horizontal space to model a realistic slope. At left the lower track negotiates a cut, as there wasn't enough space to model an appropriate natural hillside all the way to the lower elevation. Again, mockups showed what would look acceptable.
I'm using a somewhat different approach. First, especially if you're building in layers, even if it's *NOT* a multi-deck layout, you *need* to know what your vertical separations *must* be. My staging yard will have 10" of separation from the "main" level. Since I'm using 1/2" plywood, this is roughly 9 1/2" of "headroom". How did I arrive at this firgure? Well, mostly by asking in these forums, and an educated guess. On the main level, the track will rise and loop around a couple times, and there will need to be roughly 3" of clearance for trains to do the over-and-under thing. I'm using a no-lix to rise from staging to main level. The next thing we *MUST* know is our maximum grade. Again, this was derived by experience, asking in the forums, and reading. My grade from staging will be about 2.25% Again, how did I arrive at this? Well, I used track planning software to lay out the staging yard. I determined where the grade could start, while keeping all turnouts on the level. I used the software to mark this as "Zero Elevation". I drew out the no-lix, and where I thought the crest of the hill should be, and marked this as 10" of elevation. I had the program calculate the grade at 3%. Too steep, for me. So I added a return loop and recalculated. 2.5% Still too steep. A few minor adjustments later, and I had a no-lix at about 2.25% grade, and routed in such a way that would work for my main level. Mind you, as of this writing, I still have *NOT* drawn out the plan for the main level. But I'll use the same methods to incorporate more grades, knowing I plan to add a mine scene, a couple small towns, and other yet-to-be-determined elements. Some track may be hidden, though my prototype may not have had any tunnels. I may use hills and ridges to conceal the track's disappearance and re-appearance. I will probably make an unwritten rule that no more than 12" of track shall be "unreachable". I may use hinged fascias to access any hidden track, or removable scenery. ......... now that I wrote all this, I should probably photograph my progress to show you all what I'm talking about.
CTValleyRR Paul-- SOME understanding of where you want to end up is certainly essential when doing model railroading. Certainly, if you want your trains to run above a deep gorge, you need to build some vertical separation into your layout, either by raising the track or lowering the scenery. But once again, you're stuck in the precision construction mindset. Yes, if you're building a fighter jet or a submarine, you have a detailed drawing (a metric butt-ton of them, actually) that shows you step by step every little detail that you need to do. But that's not what you're doing. Ever seen the guys design these things? I once watched a designer spend almost two full shifts at a CAD terminal trying to route a pipe through a given space without too many bends. Do you think he spend all that time just making pretty lines? He tried and failed about 20 different times before he got it to work. Were you born knowing how to ride a bicycle or solder? I bet your early attempts at both were rather pathetic, but you can do them pretty well now. Same story here. The step by step pictures that you want WILL exist, some day, in your mind, after you've tried and screwed it up half a dozen times. You really do, as someone said, have to just stand there and say "does that look right?". If the answer is no, change it a little bit. The only time you have to do it just so is if you're trying to reproduce an exact replica of something (and even then, only the gross detail needs to be right -- the fine stuff won't matter). And yes, we all understand that there is only so much of you to go around. Obviously, you have to pick which project you want to do today. Rome wasn't built in a day; nor will your layout be.
Hi again CT.
You're absolutely right. I AM stuck in that mindset, I just can't help myself. After 28+ years in a business where you work with excruciatingly tight tolerances and extremely detailed drawings I want that. But I can't have it so it's hard to try to teach this old dog new tricks. But I'm slowly learning to wing it.
What I'd REALLY love to see is someone like Pelle in action! Watching live while he does it and video taping it while I ask about a googolplex amount of questions.
Yes, photos Brad!
And, what is a no-lix?
You might be familiar with a helix, used to connect 2 levels (or more) of track. They can be complex to design and build, and use considerable valuable space. I forget who coined the term, but a "No-lix" is essentially a long, around-the-walls run of track that rises from one level to another. It serves the same purpose, usually saving space, and eliminates the helix.
Photos (these have been posted before. Sorry they're a bit blurry):
Paul_in_GA You're absolutely right. I AM stuck in that mindset, I just can't help myself. After 28+ years in a business where you work with excruciatingly tight tolerances and extremely detailed drawings I want that. But I can't have it so it's hard to try to teach this old dog new tricks. But I'm slowly learning to wing it. What I'd REALLY love to see is someone like Pelle in action! Watching live while he does it and video taping it while I ask about a googolplex amount of questions.
Paul, here is what we want to see from you.
Get some of the basic materials to build a mountain, or a cliff, or a waterfall, and just do it. If it looks like crap, so be it. Take photos along the way and post them when you are finished, not before. Don't ask any questions along the way. Just do it. Just build it. Then, submit the photo sequence of your masterpiece.
That is your assignment. You have one week to complete it. A week from tomorrow, we want to see photos. That gives you two weekends. Get going.