I know I'm a little late to the party (been out of town for a few days), but it sounds like the new guys have it figured out.
You don't want to come here to get "approval" for anything. The ONLY, and I repeat ONLY, approval you need is yours. "Model Railroading" is a term that encompasses a broad swath of activities (and yes, I know I'll raise some hackles here) from the guy running a loop of track on his ping pong table to the guy with a 20,000 square foot museum quality layout and $1M worth of superdetailed brass locos and rolling stock. Only you can say for sure what is right for you.
The idea of having a "starter" layout and building a more advanced one later is an excellent one.
FWIW, sectional track, with or without roadbed attached, takes a lot of the guesswork out of tracklaying, and is a great option if you're just starting out. True, it can be very limiting, but that's probably not an issue for someone who just wants to get something up and running, and will learn what he likes over time.
Have at it and have fun!
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
I too, just started in the hobby, and started with EZ track. It's now boxed up, haha. It lasted about a month. Like most guys said, you do the hobby for you, so if it works for you, then by all means! Personally, I found the switch quality lacking. More importantly for me, the sound and noise from plastic roadbed did not work for me at all. I switched to cork and flextrack and am much happier with the visual and audio quality. That said, I would recommend that if getting setup quickly is a bigger priority for you so you can start operations, then EZ track or Kato unitrak are great options to fit those priorities. Best of luck and have fun!
Thanks CTvalleyRR - That philosophy is what brought me to this hobby. And, yes, to me it's "just" a hobby. The basic idea is get involved with something for fun.
MattD - I appreciate your time and effort to respond here as well. I'm glad you've been able to find the "sweet spot" of the hobby that gives you the most enjoyment too. That appears to be so many different things to so many people. This great pastime has something for any personality, and I can't think of many things that do.
There was another forum I had been on, that tolerated me for a while. Most of the members were helpful and patient with me, but my attitude just wasn't one of them.
Although I've been a subscriber to MRM for a while, I never thought about there being a forum here. I'm glad to find a place where all it takes is enjoying this hobby to become "one of them". For any newbie lurkers, or seasoned veterans who look at things a little differently, now is your time to post.
My name's Pops, and I'm a model railroader.
By the way - I've found another neat forum that is worth checking out -
www.thewhistlepost.com
Though most of my garage layout is laid with Atlas and Sinohara flex-track and Sinohara turnouts, I do have several sections in which I've used the wide radius EZ track, simply because it's bullet-proof and the areas are where the trackage hugs several sheer cliffs (one of them an actual 6' drop to the cement garage floor). And painted and ballasted, it's very difficult to tell the EZ track from the flex-track.
This is one area with the 6' sheer drop:
Another area:
The track is their 34 and 36" radii, respectively. The track has been in place for 10 years or so and has been absolutely trouble-free. Not even the hint of a derailment. In fact, I'm thinking of replacing a couple of other curved portions using the EZ track.
So for me, it's worked out VERY well.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Awesome work. And thanks for sharing the photos. What an inspiration.
I knew it couldn't be just beginners using EZ Track. Neat work.
Pops
Anyone else using EZ Track?
Don't take this the wrong way, but my son's layout is made of nickel silver HO EZ Track. Mine is flextrack with some sectional pieces.
On one of my earlier layouts I used Atlas Code 83 sectional track along with their code 83 flex track. To get an easement I had one curve with 22" radius curves (in the tightest part of the curve) joined to 24" radius curves to form an easement. It actually worked pretty good. I made this my tightest curve and used it as a guide to make adjacent tracks with the flex track.
Concerning EZ track there is an ad where it is ballasted sitting on top of painted deep pile carpet that looks pretty good in my opinion. It is done by Bruce Carpenter, I believe. Maybe some of you guys have seen it.
Make your model railroad however you want because if you are not happy with it you can always tear it down and start over using different materials and methods later. That is how we grow in this hobby. Even masters like Pelle Soeborg do it!
My advice to you is that if you are open to using other track than EZ track for your time period modeled I would go with at least Atlas Code 83 sectional track without the roadbed. Railroads back then were mostly laid directly on a dirt roadbed. As your skill level improves and if you feel like you need to go to the next level you may want to switch to Micro Engineering Code 70 or Code 55 flex.
Happy Modeling!
Fun Senior CitizenI have one strong advantage over most here. Most posters can't remember before they were first involved with this hobby. At 68 now, and never having a train in my life, I can truly enjoy the start of this great adventure for the first time. The fun and surprises will never be better.
Another fellow was Grandpa Coyote. He was interested in Route 66 and had just purchased a Walther's superchief set.
It is really great to work with people just starting. It is challenging not to overload them with too much jargon and try to not push our own prejudices.
CTvalleyRR - Nothing to take wrong. I appreciate all input. It all contributes to my education and I don't take different thoughts or views as negatives. It just gives more depth to the subject. Besides, I take your input seriously.
EMD#1 - I've seen the ad you mentioned, and thought it looked great. Sure, my first attempts probably won't look like that, but it's something to shoot for. Also, I had never thought about the dirt road bed. Thanks for bringing that up. Definitely something to consider.
Texas Zepher - Thanks for your outlook. It's a big part of why I decided on this forum. "Community" seems to mean more here, encompassing all. Your input is very encouraging.
By the way - TOM - I'm using your second photo as my screen saver. Just awesome! Thanks.
(any chance you could email me a higher resolution copy - hiny, hint)
racevid@earthlink.net
Fun Senior Citizen CTvalleyRR - Nothing to take wrong. I appreciate all input. It all contributes to my education and I don't take different thoughts or views as negatives. It just gives more depth to the subject. Besides, I take your input seriously.
Thanks! Not everyone does. I tend to be very direct. I wanted to make sure that by telling you we made my son's layout out of it, you didn't think that it was only appropriate for a child's layout. Actually, part of the reason I used it was that the layout -- at least the basic track work, had to go up after the kids were in bed one Christmas eve. I had cut the benchwork and foam insulation earlier, but I still had to whip the thing together in a couple of hours (I hate being up all night, in that I am awakened at an ungodly early hour on Christmas morning).
Fun Senior Citizen EMD#1 - I've seen the ad you mentioned, and thought it looked great. Sure, my first attempts probably won't look like that, but it's something to shoot for. Also, I had never thought about the dirt road bed. Thanks for bringing that up. Definitely something to consider.
What a great attitude! Thinking like that will take you a long way in this hobby. It separates you from the two biggest groups of failures: those who use the "c" word (as in, "I can't do that") and the instant gratification crowd, who want a basement-filling, museum quality layout in 2 weeks for less than $1000 (slight exaggeration here, but not much, to read some of the posts).
I recently helped a older gentleman who has some physical problems with his layout. He had EZ track and eight switches on a 12x4 table. He had tried to fit everything together and things did not fit because he had neglected to use the smaller straight section to make things aline. At first i was not happy working with the track( I have code 83 on my home layout) but as things progressed i became a happy camper. The layout is bullet proof and looks good on the sections that have some scenery. The quality of the turnouts is the only thing that left me with a less than positive feeling. From a cost standpoint the EZ is quite expensive compared to atlas flex and cork roadbed, but from a construction standpoint the EZ track for my friend"s application turned out fine.
Thanks for the continued comments.
It seems as if the chief complaint is the turnouts. That's good news to me, as my plan doesn't have any. It's a folded dog bone, over and under so none needed. I'm a happy camper.
I posted my layout plan in the gallery - at least I think I did - but can't find it. it must take a while for it to come up.
It's titled "Pops Plan - The Heritage Valley Railroad"
If anyone finds it, let me know what you think.
No turnouts. Yes that definitely eliminates 90% of the gripes I've heard about EZ-Track.
Fun Senior CitizenI posted my layout plan in the gallery - at least I think I did - but can't find it.
Maybe it's not up because it's the weekend. Seems nothing posted after 5/3.
The picture by the post is of a layout using EZ track on the floor....the late, great Santa Clause lines...It started out as a circle around the tree on Christmas.....then there was the first switch....then I tried the magnetic uncoupler...then a couple more sidings were added. Pretty soon it was like the eggplant that ate Chicago. One nice thing for beginners is to be able to change the track plan to see what you like and what works. Hard to beat a steam engine coming out from under the dining room table....Just great fun for what it is and if you decide to move on to something else it can be cleaned up in a couple of hours. After a while I was hooked and the G/F who gave me the small set to run around the tree at Christmas was freaking out cause I was channeling my Dad and the great times we had from all those years ago and the empire I had dreamed of building....So anyhow I moved my bed from the big bedroom to the small bedroom and built benchwork for this great plan from Lance Mindheim for a room layout. I'm saving for the track and switches now but in the meantime I splashed down the EZ track and Viola!....trains are running at eye level and I can work on the lighting angles and other things you don't think about till you are actually using what was on paper.
You may or may not get to the point where something different may suit you better but by then you will have all the experience of running trains and setting up a layout you like....invaluable experience for a beginner and maybe the best thing EZ track provides.....a way to get things rolling and the fun begun....
Above all....Have Fun! Bob
p.s. the switches do suck, though....
Fun Senior Citizen Thanks for the continued comments. It seems as if the chief complaint is the turnouts. That's good news to me, as my plan doesn't have any. It's a folded dog bone, over and under so none needed. I'm a happy camper.
I can't see your layout yet. I've got my fingers crossed for you.
Since this is your first layout, and you admit to the possibility of changing / expanding it later, it will probably be an excellent way to get your feet wet and learn some basic skills and techniques.
I suspect, however, that you will soon become bored with the fact that your trains have nothing more to do that run around in a circle, no matter how big. Personally, I would never build a layout that doesn't have the capability for continuous running -- we sometimes "take laps" to lengthen times between stops -- but generally a railroad becomes much more interesting when there are industries to serve, and you pull that train up to a siding, only to find that the cars you need to drop are buried in the middle of the consist and the 9:05 Hartford Express is bearing down on you, so you need to clear the main quickly!
Of course, one big advantage to EZ Track is that it will allow you to pop some segments out and throw some sidings in quite easily.
Well, I've given up waiting to see if I posted it correctly or not.
Meantime, anyone who would like to check it out, can do it here -
http://www.thewhistlepost.com/forums/gallery/index.php
Here is in principle how you post a picture:
1) Upload picture to some photo sharing service2) Get a URL that points directly to the image (not to the general gallery front page at the whistlepost)3) Use the "insert media" icon (looks like a film strip), paste URL into popup and post.
Done.
Here is a link directly to the page I assume you meant to show people (it also contains a description of your layout):http://www.thewhistlepost.com/forums/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/12068
Here is the png file displayed as an image (some older web browsers may not display png file):
Smile, Stein
Fun Senior Citizen If anyone finds it, let me know what you think.
It has several challenges.
1) It makes fairly inefficient use of floor space. You will need access corridors on at least three sides, so your 6x8 foot layout will bind up 10 x 10 feet of floor space in the room you have your layout - space which cannot easily be shared with other uses of the room (unlike what you can if you e.g. run a layout on a shelf along a wall, above your computer desk or TV or whatever and below your book shelves or storage shelves. Not a problem if you have that all floor space left over anyways, and have no use for extra storage, a spot for a work desk for your model railroading or anything like that.
2) Reach wise, three feet is long to reach in to the center, especially when you have scenery etc you are going to be leaning over
Access will be easier if you are tall and thin (so your hips can go right up to the edge without a belly crushing scenery), and the layout is at hip level instead of at chest level. That is a way to trade looks (you will be looking down on the layout instead of looking into a scene) for reach.
3) Scenery wise, it will probably look more like an amusement park ride - lots of track looping here and there, with it being fairly obvious that the train is running around on a closed loop, than look a railroad passing through one or two somewhat realistic scenes, where trains come from somewhere else and continue to somewhere else (or head back to where it came from).
Judicious use of scenery can perhaps hide some of the looping effect, but it is hard to make track configurations where the track crosses diagonally across the table in a figure-8 like way look plausible, especially if you need to keep the layout table low for reach (see point 2).
Scenery wise, it is easier to create 2.5D scenes (scenes showing just the front or just the front and a little of the sides of buildings, mountains or whatever) for something that is at chest level and where you don't see across the table to see the opposite side of the table.
4) There isn't a lot to do with your train. It can run around and around. You can stop at a station, and then continue looping. And that's about it.
In summary, this looks like a classical toy train table layout, which will be fun to build and experiment with scenery on, but probably pretty dull to run trains on. It is not an attempt to model a railroad, or create an impression of a scene from a real railroad.
And if that is what you want, then that is just fine.
Hi, Pops!
I'm currently using EZ track in my new layout, a rectangular 'ceiling train'. So, like you, basically no turnouts. But then there's the 'yard'...with a ladder, using the long #6 turnouts, to create 3 mains, a 4th with an inspection pit with overhead crane, & a backside or storage track...a liberal dusting of ballast over everything & enough scenery to divert a viewer's eye; most of my admirers know even less about the hobby than I do. So, a little smoke & mirrors, & everybody's happy.
And who was that, putting down the Hogwarts Express? I've found it a fun project, from fitting the cars with Rapido lighting to experimenting with old IHC interiors to get those Euro-style compartments...I'm even toying with painting a Walthers Skytop to the Hogwarts colours & putting a mini plasma ball in the end, as a crystal ball. And I got a scale diecast model of a Ford Anglia, which will 'fall' into a big old willow tree, as it goes by...it's MY hobby, after all...(I use short sections of the 33.5" radius curves to 'parallel' the #6's as they come out of the switch.) And you CAN join EZ track with flex; the bases from an old Girder & Panel set are practically the right height, off by only the thickness of a piece of 110lb cardstock...
Keep the faith!
Paul
Thanks guys, I appreciate your time to respond.
Paul - sounds like you're having fun with your layout - awesome. I love "smoke and mirrors," too.
Stein - Wow, thanks for the help with the photo. I'm still hoping mine shows up in the gallery, but it was neat for you to go through the trouble of getting that up for me.
As for your layout thoughts - all valid, considered, and appreciated.
#1 - It's going to be in a corner of an 18x28 room, and we've checked that space won't be a problem. And, my preference is being able to be in one place and see the entire layout. I don't aspire to having a layout spread out all around the room, or hidden behind view blocks, etc. I think they're cool and great for operations, but just not what I want to build.
#2 - Yes, 3' is a long reach, but it seems do-able. The layout is low for various reasons, so that makes it easier. Plus, the track area is only 5' wide, so I have the option of eliminating an extra foot if I have to.
#3 - I agree with your premise, however, I have no desire to represent a real, working railroad, just create an image - kind of like a large diorama with moving parts.
#4 - And here we totally agree. There's not a lot to do with my train. Perfect! I don't want to have to do anything but watch it. No operations, no turn outs, no loading, unloading, changing cars, or anything. I'm sure that attitude is fairly unique here, but, the name of this game is "fun" and as you concluded, "If that is what you want, Then that is just fine."
I hope you'll be able to follow my progress and still give input. I have made many changes to the plan as I go along this journey, and will surely make a lot more based on newly acquired knowledge and suggestions.
Fair enough, pops :-)
Your layout, and it has to fit your preferences, not mine. I still think that if my goals had been yours (ie just watching a train run), and I could have freely used 10x10 feet in a corner of a larger room, I would still have considered some other form factors than multiple loops on a rectangular table. Say a water wing layout:
It has a duck-under access hole in the corner, which may be a no-no for you, but it would allow you to sit back and watch trains run (maybe from a recliner in the lower right hand corner, with a cold beverage in your hand), and it would have allowed several plausible looking visually separated scenes, whether you just wanted the train to run through them, or to stop to pick up cars or go into a siding to wait for another train or whatever.
Anyways - just wanted to introduce the concept - which you may have considered already and dismissed in favor of a table with a 2-foot (or wider) aisle on the backside for access to the rear end of the layout.
Thanks for trying. It's a neat layout, but not quite for me.
Plus, I'm not looking for visually separate scenes, just one that all ties together.
Pop's thought I chime in. While a modeler has to do what will make them happy, I have to agree with Stan on some of his points.
2 Long reaches will get to be a pain. I as well thought I could live with them, it has tuned out to be one of my biggest mistakes.
3 Seeing the train going around and around. Some view blocks do make the train seems like it is coming from somewhere and going somewhere. Maybe build a good sizes hill on the rear 1.5 feet of the bench? (top of plan)
Then there is the S Curves. In your plan I see around 8 of them. A S Curve is where you have 2 turns connected go different ways and it looks like a S. At slow speeds, you might get thought them. At little faster speeds they will cause derailments. You need between 3 to 5 inches of straight track between the turns. Ask me how I know!
Far as not having anything for your trains to do? I have around 50 turnouts and Engine House, Coal Mine, Grain Elevator, Passenger Station and a team track. I might use 4 of the turns outs maybe twice a week. I am more or a rail fan (watching the trains) than a switcher.
Have fun.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
For watching a train run, I have always liked the figure 8 so that one can see both sides of the train close up. I also like how you did not just make straight tracks running parallel to the edge of the layout and 90 degree and 180 degree curves. My only concern is how close some of the tracks are together running almost parallel but they are at different levels (ex the left hand side. I presume the outside track is flat and level while the inside figure 8 track is going pretty steeply up. ). There might be some "verticle" scenery issues there.
I presume your gandy-dancer has an automatic reverse built into it and you won't have to manually be doing that.
Texas Zepher My only concern is how close some of the tracks are together running almost parallel but they are at different levels (ex the left hand side. There might be some "verticle" scenery issues there. I presume your gandy-dancer has an automatic reverse built into it and you won't have to manually be doing that.
My only concern is how close some of the tracks are together running almost parallel but they are at different levels (ex the left hand side. There might be some "verticle" scenery issues there.
Yes, they are close. I plan on an almost vertical cut with cut rock or stone wall sides. I feel pretty sure I've got that part covered. The gandy dancer will be on a Bachmann auto-reverse track set with delay at each end.
Thanks for your input.