Thanks for the props.Not sure about "excellent" track work, as most of these posts are about me trying to fix my own mistakes.
But getting closer to figuring things out with manufacturer's turnouts.For the Altas C55, just slipping in the shims helps keep the point rails from popping up, no matter what method of turnout control you use.For the ME C55 #6s, my "fixes" are to repair my own bungling in snapping off the throwbars by accident.The holes in the ME throwbars are smaller than the Atlas, but I've found a slight filing / grinding of the wire takes it down enough to slide through just fine.Easily distracted, I tend to make a lot of "D'oh!" mistakes, like installing one Bullfrog close the cross-support before inserting the z-bend connector:No biggie, as I just unscrewed the Bullfrog, inserted the z-bend, then re-attached the Bullfrog.But I tend to do a lot of forehead-slapping moves like that.And if you can't laugh at yourself...By the way, you can see the support for the red control rod sheath still attached to the Bullfrog on the left.Those are totally unnecessary on this module: just having the red sheath can work fine for the 11" max on this module, and the structure gets in the way when using the z-bend and using both sides, so I just chop it off.After a lovely day yesterday with a Silicon Valley Free-moN group work session, I got one yard section totally wired up and ready to roll.Came back home, hooked up the small sceniced extension and the DCC, and ran some trains:Except for the rear "2" on my 2-10-2 slipping off the point rails when backing up over ONE turnout coming from the diverging route (need to check the gauge & inspect the rails), all the trains ran fine over all the trackwork.Today will be installing the shelves and control rods on the on the opposite side (now that everything underneath works fine, don't need to prop it up on the workbench), and then hooking up all the wiring on the other yard section.Should have a fine & operational staging yard with powered frogs and turnout control for the setup at the Coast Division meet June 10th.Thanks for looking.
M.C. Fujiwara
My YouTube Channel (How-to's, Layout progress videos)
Silicon Valley Free-moN
Wow, now that is some excellent track work. "Yard work is pointless".....excellent track work and a sense of humor, keep up the nice work on both fronts.
Wayne
Modeling HO Freelance Logging Railroad.
mcfunkeymonkey Though sometimes I find all this yard work pointless:
Though sometimes I find all this yard work pointless:
MC.
Don't give up your day job or stop posting your terrific how to series. You will surely starve as a 'Stand Up Comedian".
By the way, my compliments to having your kids involved. Your daughter does better track work than I do and I have about 60 years + on her.
Well done MC.
Blue Flamer.
Soooooo, after fixing one turnout, I tried installing Bullfrogs on the two ME C55 #6 turnouts I used for the diesel service (and which, if you remember, I installed yesterday).Well, the hole in the throwbar is a bit smaller than the Bullfrog wire (which fits the Atlas just fine), and so I thought I'd just ream it out a little.HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAHASnap:No matter how careful I was, either in reaming or in inserting the rod, the throwbar snapped off.Luckily, the ME turnouts are much sturdier (in general) than the Atlas one and the point rails don't have those clips.So I popped the throw bar off and slipped an HO PC board tie under there:There are tiny bumps under the ME point rails, so, after soldering, in order to keep the points down below the stock rails, I had to slip a small strip of styrene on top of both sides of the PC board throw bar and under the stockrails.Turns out 0.02" styrene is a smidge thick, so I filed it with a couple of passes and it fit real purdy.For the other ME C55 turnout, I took the point rails out of their seats (which look remarkably like rail joiners) and filed off the little bumps. The PC board tie then sat too far below, so I propped it with slightly filed 0.02" styrene:Turns out that this actually makes the throwing action a little stiff, so I might drop it a little tomorrow (put the throwbar on the ground) or trim the plastic ties next to it, as I think that might be pinching a bit.So lots of frustration and swearing today, mostly aimed at myself.But in the end, it all turned out:Tomorrow: wiring up the underworld.Thanks for looking.
Turnout Trials & Tribulations!But first, I wired up the outer diesel engine service track to this nifty DPDT On-Off-On toggle (rated at 20amps):that will allow that track to become a programming track when hooked up to the portable Powercab panel toolbox I hope to build this weekend at our group build party.So I totally butchered a turnout experimenting with different ways to "fix" it.('Nam flashback: "We had to destroy the village in order to save it.")So I needed to install a new one.(No, really, it was ugly)As I had already soldered everything together, I just used the Dedeco thin disc in the Dremel and cut it close to the original joint:After filing & fitting & filing to get a close fit, I slipped some HO PC board ties under the new joints, laid down some caulk and then slipped the new turnout into place & soldered:Turned out rather well!And now I know what NOT to do to an Atlas C55 turnout: namely, don't try to cut the point rail throwbar clips as the point rails twist as soon as you breath close to them, and soldering doesn't work very well.Must be the kryptonite in the rails.So a key Atlas C55 is back in business & works great with the Bullfrog.Think the turnout troubles are over?Heck no.[cont.]
Finished most of the Bullfrogs on one staging yard section, so started in on the other (the one with the cans on it):I've left the shelves off the UTP side as I've found it's a whole lot easier to install spacers and Bullfrogs when it's tipped up on the workbench, rather than trying to screw up (done enough of that)(and probably will again).Speaking of which, for some reason I could not get the screw to hold one spacer flush while the woodglue dried, so in the end I just ended up taping it in place:Worked like a charm.A sticky blue charm.In that photo you can also see my sophisticated and hi-tech method of bundling & securing the wires up & out of the way from the Bullfrogs.Same sticky blue charm.The reason I had the partially-finished Bullfrog section up is because I laid the track and turnouts for the diesel engine service area (under the cans) and, since I had the chop saw out while making a pair of detachable extensions, I went ahead and cut slots to make this section's legs slip-on-able:I just cut straight from the top of the panel down to the holes I'd already drilled for the bolts.If anyone is making a module, I strongly recommend making your legs slip on.It's, like, totally 20 KABILLION times easier and faster to put the legs on (can even do it one handed).Also had to cut out more of the wire channel because flipping the legs around to the other side of the cross-support threw off my aim.When I first made the legs, I used a router to smooth the edges of the channel, but this time was too lazy to get the router out and went with the more direct route of a curved file.If anyone is making a module, I strongly recommend rounded and smoothing any areas on which wires will rub, as a sharp edge with tear the wires to shreds over time.So here's the overview of the second section of the staging yard module (though technically both are modules with standardized endplates on both ends):The two long tracks at the upper right are the diesel engine service.The one on the far left will double as a programming track (will hook up a DPDT in the fascia that will flip it between the main bus and a short section of bus-ish wire with powerpole connectors that can hook up with the portable PowerCab Panel / Booster I'm building in a toolbox).The short track between the engine service and the main is the fuel / sand supply track.I used two ME #6 turnouts for the diesel service.Why?LHS was out of Atlas #7s, and I wanted to try ME (first time).Free-moN standards allow down to #6, so it's all good.I popped out the spring underneath to allow easier movement for the Bullfrogs.And, like Adam (Steamdonkey74) said earlier (or maybe on a different thread), it's a PITA to solder the green wire to that little disc under the frog.Hope it holds.The grey rectanglish shape on the far left is the Machine Shop base, whose track might also double as a programming track so there can be one on each side.Both programming tracks will be long enough for at least 2 Big Long Locos for consisting.Tasks this week:--Fix / replace 1 turnout I butchered while experimenting on ways to improve it--Finish installing all Bullfrogs--Finish wireing up all Bullfrogs--Hook up some juice and run some trains to find out the bumps before the group run on June 10th--Start to figure out how to build the 8" pit turntableBut things are moving again.Thanks for looking.
Thanks, Stein & Wayne, for the positive feedback.And glad you find it useful.(Just like Thomas, I want to be a very useful engine )
Finished installing all 4 shelves and most of the Bullfrogs on one section of the yard:The mainline turnouts are centered between bottom of shelf and bottom of module.Yard turnouts knobs are raised or lowered 1/4" depending if throwing a near or far turnout.I might notch the knob to indicate direction of diverging route, but I'll wait to see if it's necessary when we use the yard at a show next month.One of the knobs is not under the shelves:But still protected.I've been playing around with the control rod supports on the Bullfrogs.If the Bullfrog is in the middle of the module, then no Tadpole or other support is needed.But some are on one side or the other, so I built some with the control tube support mounted on the Bullfrog.Seems to work fine unless very very close to the side, then the threaded z-bend tends to scrape a bit as the motion carries it down as it goes around.Here you can see some distances:Overall, the red tube is enough for good operations.I really like the Bullfrogs, except for the 1 1/8" travel distance.The only other issue I can see that might come up is the lateral movement of throwing the turnouts rocks the module a little side to side, but I'm guessing when both yard sections are joined with the smaller curved insert, and connected to other modules the movement won't be too bad.Time to build more Bullfrogs!Thanks for looking.
Thank you for taking the time to photograph, video, and post examples of your superlative work for the entire modeling community. This posting is most informative, I have learned a lot and can't wait to try some of your ideas and techniques on my own layout.
Thank you again,
mcfunkeymonkey Not sure about "ingenious" solutions: more like scrambling to right the ship after running aground (a la Exxon Valdez with a slightly lower blood alcohol content )
Not sure about "ingenious" solutions: more like scrambling to right the ship after running aground (a la Exxon Valdez with a slightly lower blood alcohol content )
Well, in that case - well scrambled :-)
Grin, Stein, who also are enjoying your build threads
Thanks, Frank.Not sure about "ingenious" solutions: more like scrambling to right the ship after running aground (a la Exxon Valdez with a slightly lower blood alcohol content )
Here's a shot of my high-tech white glue applicator:
I really dig toothpicks.Probably my most useful modeling tool, with tweezers and Bear Republic's Racer 5 IPA tied for a close second.For my birthday a couple months ago my kids got me a bunch of boxes of 'em (toothpicks, not IPAs).Just gotta remember not to use them for the teeth after using them on the modeling ;)
Cranked out 4 more Bullfrogs this morning, so 10 down, 10ish more to go!(and installing them, and connecting the control rods, and wiring up the frogs, and... )
Thanks for rolling with the rambles.
Hi M.C,
I was just wondering if you were using one of Tim Warris' "Best Glue Applicator Bottles Ever" to apply glue during your Bullfrog Assembly Marathon! Seriously though, very nice work on the staging module. You never cease to impress me with your steady stream of ingenious solutions to problems which pop up as you go. At times my inability to solve some unforseen problem on my own layout in a timely fashion leads to prolonged periods of zero progress. You don't seem to suffer from this!
As always, your posts are highly informative, so keep 'em coming.
Frank B.
Dorval, Canada
So the two mainline turnouts of one section are now Bullfrogged:I'll hook up the wires after I install all the Bullfrogs.They work pretty awesome (though I did cut the red sheath a little short on the left one).Also installed the shelves on the handle side:I used woodglue and screw on the first but then I realised that the paint might prevent a great bond (will the wood still emulsify if there's a layer of paint? wouldn't think so), so I tried... that's right: Gorilla Glue! on the second.Both seem equally firm and steady, so we'll see over time.I'm not going to install the shelves on the other side until I install 10 Bullfrogs on this section (much easier to work propped up and clamped on workbench like in photo above)So I've been installing more spacers on which to mount the Bullfrogs, and came upon a new issue:Originally, the bolts would stick out to the left.While I was smart enough to plan ahead with the cross-braces to place them not under a hole for turnout actuating rods, I was not smart enough to think about the bolts for the legs and how they stick out into the Bullfrog.So I've reversed the direction of the bolts so the leg plate goes on the "right" (outer) side and... that's right: Gorilla Glue!The bolt and washer on the inner side (where the Bullfrog will go) are now rocksolid attached to the crossbeam.If you look at the first photo in the post, you'll see I have room to slip the leg frame over the bolts, but I think I'm going to cut channels in the leg frame panels and make it a "slip-on" rather than "bolt-hole only" because I really don't want to whack the Bullfrog too much.Plus, slip-on is soooooo much easier & quicker.Just hope it doesn't over-weaken the 1/2" ply panel on the legs too much.Alrighty, back to building more Bullfrogs!Thanks for looking.
Oh, yeah: there'll be ground cover, ballast, cinders, gravel, etc.
There'll be a turntable with coal, sand, ash, water, etc. and a double-track deisel service.A machine shop (that might double as a programming track) with some welding flicker inside and a MOW track and shed for the wreck train/crane that we'll need when people lean on the modules and throw the the joint alignment outta whack ;)
You didn't think I'd leave it JUST plywood, did you?
I had an issue with HO-scale Atlas turnouts, Code 83 snap-switches, about a year and a half ago. Atlas is in the process of moving their flex-track production from one Chinese factory to another. I'm wondering if some of these quality control issues are a result of the move, or perhaps a reason for it.
On a brighter note, I know this is a "staging" yard, but since it is seen by the public, will you be putting in some scenery, at least?
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Here's a short "How To" video on how to improve the Atlas C55 turnouts by adding shims to the throwbar:watch?v=CA87ZvHJQd8I'll do another one on how I replace the throwbar with a PC board tie later (probably this weekend).I've also started installing the Bullfrog turnout controls to the module.As there's no 2" pink foam, I added a spacer made out of 2" chunks of 1"x2"s.Here's with the control knob pushed in:And pulled out:Notice that I built the turnouts without the rod support option: the Bullfrogs in the center don't need the Tadpoles as the red control rod sheathes are stiff enough when short enough.When I install one on the side of the module I might need a Tadpole for the far side.We'll see!The travel distance is about 1 1/8".Not thrilled with the distance (or the bright yellow of the rod), but I really dig the Bullfrogs themselves: keeps the points firmly secured and easy to power the frogs.To protect the knobs and have something useful on the yard module I built some small shelves 4" high that stick out about 2":[Haven't installed them yet: will drill all the holes for the Bullfrog knobs first]But not only to they protect the knobs, but will give us a surface other than the layout to place our Powercab and iPhone throttle, as well as any car cards / paperwork when we get to that point.The mainline turnout knobs are centered equidistant between the bottom of module and bottom of shelf, while I'm going to offset the yard track turnout knobs: 1/2" higher for far side and 1/2" lower for near side.Also will carve a slight notch top or bottom to indicate direction of diverging route so operators can feel it rather than lean back to double check all the time.Two Bullfrogs down & only 18 more to go!Thanks for looking.
Sooooooo, last night I tried replacing a throwbar on an already-installed turnout and tweeked the point rail: they really like to bend and pop out of the hinge!I think it'll be repairable, but otherwise I don't mind replacing one with a handlaid turnout.But, thinking about how people had been talking about shims, I decided to give it a try.There's a little channel in the throwbar under each stockrail, so I just slipped a small section of 0.02" x 0.06" styrene strip into the space:Seems to work great.I also tried 0.03" x 0.06", but that thickness doesn't allow any give around the point clip, and the tension pops the point rail out of the hinge hole after a bit.The 0.02" x 0.06" is still thin enough to slide under the point rail clip & allow it some play, while still keeping the throwbar down under the stockrail to keep the point rail flush (and not ride up like it had been).So far, I think you only have to do it on the side opposite the ground throw / bullfrog wire, but the groundthrow might be keeping that side down.When I install a Bullfrog I'll see how it works, but it seems the worst case is that I slide another styrene strip on the throwbar under that side of the stockrail.K.I.S.S. really is a great principle to live by.Thanks to all who made all the suggestions / alt ways to skin the cat!
Thanks, Frank.Usually I handlay turnouts myself, but as I built most of this in less than a week for a show, I went with the Atlas (though now I wonder if I could have built 20 turnouts in a day. Hmm...)
The other issue with Atlas C55 turnouts is with the "bumps" / tie clips.For some reason, they seem to be a hair tall for many wheel flanges, leading the wheel to "pop up" right before the frog.
A few passes with a file seems to do the trick, as does making sure your wheels are perfectly in gauge.
If I do get major issues with the Atlas turnouts, then I'll definitely replace them with handlaid (unless it's the day of a show ;) )
I too have had issues with the quality of Atlas Code 55 turnouts in the past, the weak throwbar being one issue. Or in other instances one or both of the point rails come loose from the pins holding them in place. Lately I've noticed that I have problems with certain cars derailing on a couple of my installed #5 turnouts. Eventually I figured out that the metal frogs were slightly raised and were not flush with the rails. I've had to file down the frog to fix the problem.
I am building any new turnouts I need with Fast Tracks products which always results in smooth problem-free trackwork. I don't want to rag on the quality of Atlas products, as for the most part they're pretty reliable. But it's definitely annoying when these problems pop up.
Keep the updates coming, I always look forward to your informative posts.
Thanks, Jeff.The whole point (flush butt?) is to take the mystery out of modules and other aspects of model railroading so people spend more time building and less time worrying.The same technique can be used for bridges, docks, lift-up & swing-out sections.
Built a couple of Bullfrogs and started figuring out how to install them.While I could just screw them into the 1/2" ply, that wouldn't leave much room for the control rods to drop 4" to the sides, especially when install right next to the edge.So I'll probably mount the Bullfrogs on some 1 1/2" square blocks (leftover leg material), but we'll see.First, though, I have to deal with another issue thrown my way, specifically this:The Atlas C55 turnouts, while nice for their power routing & easy-to-wire frog set up, have a weakass plastic throwbar / point rail clip that actually pushes the point rail up over the stock rail when thrown to the far side."You're throwing too hard!" you might say.Well, so does the Bullfrog, so I gotta work with that.And I have no problems with the Bullfrog working my handlaid turnout with PC board throwbar on the Shoofly.So, before I started butchering the turnouts already installed on the staging module, I practiced with an Atlas C55 turnout I'm saving for another project (muhahahaha):Just cut the point rail clips with rail nippers and soldered.I use HO scale PC board ties for throwbars as I'll be drilling holes for the Bullfrog wire & the N scale ones are a little thin.[Note to self: remember to cut the gap on the throwbar before installing & soldering ]Seemed to work out pretty well, so now it's on to performing surgery on the 17 Atlas turnouts already installed!Thanks for looking.
MC:
Thanks for the video. It is incredible! I think I now have the confidence to try something similar in HO scale.
I can't wait to see what you tackle, next.
jeff c.
Here's a video I made on how I make the butt joints over a Free-moN module section:watch?v=wM1H0URvKX8Again, I apologize for the length & rambling, but I wanted to take the mystery out of a potential deal-breaker for anyone wanting to build a Free-moN module.This is for 7 tracks on plywood, but can also be used for 1 or 2 tracks on foam / cork.The same technique can be used for other modules, or swing-out / lift-up sections.(At the single-main endplate of a module you can just solder the rails so they stick out & file back flush)Hope this helps spread the Free-moN flow, and thanks for watching (and for all comments / suggestions!)Cheers!
mcfunkeymonkey I might have over-emphasized the finickiness of aligning butt joints in the early posts.Yes, it's not a two-second snap together, but it's not that hard to get the modules aligned.Especially with two people: one to align, the other to clamp.And most modules have a single main, so all you have to align is two rails (no matter the off-chance of endplate warping or wacky floor).
I might have over-emphasized the finickiness of aligning butt joints in the early posts.Yes, it's not a two-second snap together, but it's not that hard to get the modules aligned.Especially with two people: one to align, the other to clamp.And most modules have a single main, so all you have to align is two rails (no matter the off-chance of endplate warping or wacky floor).
Gidday MC, I certainly do not think you have "....over- emphasized the finickiness of aligning butt joints...."
It, to my mind, it doesn't matter now fantastic the scenery, the rest of the track work is, in fact all the aspects of what makes a great model railroad, if the butt joints aint right, the rest dont work!!, detracts from the modular experience, much "ness"
Keep having good days.
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Thanks.
All the music in the videos was written by my brother (and used by permission).The super-cheezy elevator-type music was the background muzak in a supermarket for a Doritos commercial, so imagine it coming out almost inaudibly from a very crappy speaker while cruising the snack aisle at 2am.I'm trying to get him to record some Johnny Cash-ish / Neil Young-ish / Tom Waits-ish more train-like music for me, but he's a busy guy down in LaLaLand.
So until then, you're stuck in the elevator, just like Shallow Hal with Tony Robbins.
Now onto today's adventure!
I might have over-emphasized the finickiness of aligning butt joints in the early posts.Yes, it's not a two-second snap together, but it's not that hard to get the modules aligned.Especially with two people: one to align, the other to clamp.And most modules have a single main, so all you have to align is two rails (no matter the off-chance of endplate warping or wacky floor).And what we've found is that even if there's a significant gap, trains will still run over it fine!It's pretty amazing what long trains are able to run over.Now, of course, it's better to get as close as possible to flush & smooth.But there's a lot of lee-way.Drop-in sections of track or even the pre-ballasted joints where you drop in two rails also have their place: we've found that those options actually have more variables than necessary (and the drop-in rails can get bent very quickly), and take longer to set up & take down.Bolts & pins are great between sections, but not between modules: it's just too hard to get people from all over to precision-machine-place pins in the correct spot to allow alignment on either side of the module in any combination with anyone else's module.Maybe if we machined endplates out of steel and then all used the same...Ugh: the weight!So butt-end joints over 6"-tall 3/4" birch ply have proved (for us) to be the most practical and repeatable.Just to prove a point: today I connected the 2-foot, 15 deg. insert between the two yard sections in less than a minute, all by myself:Perhaps having multiple tracks actually makes it easier to align, as (theoretically) just aligning the two outermost rails should line up all those in between.But sometimes the Free-moN gods are with you, and sometimes they give you the fumbly finger.You can see I also sprayed on the first layer of flat black along the sides.Once I got the insert aligned and clamped, I cut track to fit the three remaining curves, laid down some caulk, placed the track, eyeballed it to have a 2" straight off the sides and then a smooth curve (1 1/2" track centers).The caulk gives you plenty of time to adjust, test with a car, and then solder at the ends:The fun thing about this part is that there are no rail joiners and you don't have to put styrene between the sections.Just run the rails up to the ones already flush on the yard sections (ok, leave a slight gap, like hair-width).So no cutting with the Dremel or filing, either.And everything lines up lovely:Now I've only tried the insert in one direction: I'm really really really hoping that it all lines up when I flip it around (and there might be a slight bit of filing to be done).But as of now, we have all 7 yard tracks (a main with two staging tracks and a runaround on each side) up and running.Or will, once I drop feeders on the insert section after the caulk cures.So here it is:While I was working on this, my daughter was using her model railroading skills to build a diorama of the BFG's cave for a class project (many layers of carved pink foam caulked together, sculptamold slathered on top, now painting the blue rocks), and my son was... ??? dancing / practicing karate / painting water pictures on the driveway.So it was a good day.Thanks for looking, and for all your comments and suggestions.
Love the videos, your skills as a modeler are unparalleled in this universe... HOWEVER, could you please ditch that elevator muzak soundtrack and replace it with... oh, I don't know, just about anything! Maybe some AC/DC,,, yeah, that's the ticket...
mcfunkeymonkey When laying the track over the middle section, I first put a sheet of 0.020 styrene between the sections before clamping:Even though I use a Ultra Thin Dedeco separating disc, the styrene makes sure that there's rail to file back flush with the endplate instead of wishing it'd grow a 1/32" to prevent a wheel-grabbing gap.
When laying the track over the middle section, I first put a sheet of 0.020 styrene between the sections before clamping:Even though I use a Ultra Thin Dedeco separating disc, the styrene makes sure that there's rail to file back flush with the endplate instead of wishing it'd grow a 1/32" to prevent a wheel-grabbing gap.
A simple and smart way to get straight rail cuts with minimum track gaps at the module boundaries.
Thanks MC - yet another good build thread that both shares enthusiasm and good ideas !
Smile, Stein
Gidday, Have you ever considered putting "Super" in front of "Mcfunkeymonkey??
Great to see people enjoying themselves at the show. Viewing your posts always puts a smile on my dial.
Thanks, guys, for the kind words.
Free-moN standards call for butt joints: I gorilla glue about 4 PC board ties at the ends and solder the rails, then file back flush with the endplate.
Works out great, with barely a bump between modules (though sometimes it takes a few tries to clamp them in the right position ;) )
Here's the last video of the Hiller show, showing steam & diesel running through the whole layout:watch?v=CBWYq0wMVbs&feature=plcp&context=C433f96bVDvjVQa1PpcFPo5FJc9Aov08UbbGiy6815n6vRlpl9Fg=Thanks for watching!
Thank you for sharing another project with us! Your project threads are always entertaining and very inspirational.
I love the whole Free-Mo concept, but I'm not familiar with all the details. Does the specification not call call for rail joiners between modules? I've never looked carefully at that detail of the layouts I've seen at shows.
Right now, building my own layout takes all my train-time, so joining a club or doing Free-Mo isn't really a good option if I wish to, in the words of Thomas Jefferson, "promote domestic tranquility." But, if we decide to relocate after we retire in a few more years, I think a locale with an active Free-Mo group would be something to seriously consider.
Again, thanks for taking the time to document your fine work. I look forward to seeing the scenery that develops around the yard.