Sorry if this has been asked before. I am assembling as many building kits in advance of an anticpated lay-out that I plan to construct in the near future. I have assembled the various kits with the option of including lights, as I think this would look kinda neat as a night time scene. What voltage/miliamps (grain of wheat or rice) do modellers typically install. Thanks for your input.
redliteal - Welcome to trains.com!
Darren (BLHS & CRRM Lifetime Member)
Delaware and Hudson Virtual Museum (DHVM), Railroad Adventures (RRAdventures)
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I have seen/used all types used from LEDs, to grain o rice, wheat--1.5 to 16 volt and fuse type bulbs. It depends on what type of lighting effect you're going for and how much heat you can stand. Obviously a 60 mA 12 volt bulb on 12 to 14 volts will burn kind of hot, whereas an LED is cool. But the bulbs look different of course. Also consider walls/floors for view blocks and to control how the light is viewed from outside of the building. LEDs should last a lot longer if you want flashing.
I like the bulbs with screw in base if I use bulbs--easy to replace.
Richard
Yes, this indeed has been discussed often, but we are happy to talk about it all over again.
LION like to use LEDs. Him uses only LEDs which he buys from Walmart. They think that they are Christmas lights, but they are the cheapest light sources I can find. I strip out the LED's and throw the rest of the stuff away. LEDs come in two sized 3mm and 5mm. Or T1 and T1.5 [lamps being measured in 1/8ths of an inch with the letter giving a hint as to the shape of the bulb. A P-36 bulb would be a pear shaped bulb 4.5 inches in diameter, so a fairly large lamp] Ok so in the real world we might say that they are 1/8th of an inch and 3/16ths of an inch in diameter.
LEDs are current sensitive, so they can operate nicely from 3 to 12 volts but need a resistor in series with them to limit the current. LION uses a 1KΩ resistor.
Now you have to watch what color you are buying. Some are a blue-white, others are labeled as warm-white. If you buy sets with plastic doodads on them they will be the smaller T1 size under the plastic. If you want clear lamps, be sure you buy them with clear doodads on them, for others may have a colored bulb under the plastic.
Some LEDs have a rounded top which focuses the light like a spot light. Some have an inverted cone shape which spreads light around them. Most of the newer Christmas sets seem to have the inverted cones inside of the doodad, but this may depend on the vendor.
Of course you have to have a little skill at soldering, but on the other hand these burn without any heat whatsoever.
Bottom Line: LIONS are CHEAP and these are as cheap as lamps can get. But then the LION has a huge layout and will have thousands of such lamps on the layout by the time he is finished.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
LEDs are cool (literally) so you can use a gob of them in each structure for a more realistic effect. And since they last more or less forever (provided you wire them properly) you can pretty much install them and forget them.
Since Lion already gave you the 1,000 words, I'll give you some pictures...
You can also use different colors to achieve different effects. The yellow exterior lights look like soda vapor lamps, while the interior has the blue cast of industrial grade fluorescent lights.
Since the LEDs are smaller and don't give off heat, you can segment the interior of your buildings and detail them so looking through the windows has a more realistic effect...
You can also leave other rooms dark without that unrealistic "black tape over the windows" look...
The overall effect can be quite pleasing...
You can also make good use of LEDs for your exterior lighting as well. I use 1.8mm yellows to make street lights. In N scale, just about anything available commercially looks wrong, so I take the leads of the LED, and bend them into the shape of a typical urban street light, glue it to a telegraph pole, and run the leads through the wall of the building to connect it to the building's lighting system.
The wall mounted light next to the apartment house door is a tiny clear bead glued over a small hole in the wall, with the LED located inside the building. In this location, the LED lights both the interior and the outside light fixture.
Properly placed, they can also highlight details in hard to view places.
Even during daylight hours, it's good to have some interior lighting to highlight your detail work...
I hope this is useful.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
I would go with LEDs. The current load is a fraction of what incandescent bulbs are and they don't burn out. Christmas lights as per LION are one way to go, but you have to watch the light dispersal pattern. I found small square ones mounted on strips that can work with a variety of voltages at TrainAidsA. Great for simulating fluorescent lighting in store fronts. They also sell LEDs in a variety of colors including warm white, yellow and amber.
As to the resistor rating, you can use a calculator on the web for that but you need to know the specs for the LEDs.
Co-owner of the proposed CT River Valley RR (HO scale) http://home.comcast.net/~docinct/CTRiverValleyRR/
I agree LED;s as well though the light from a lamp can be very appealing. I have already had lamp failures and I am not all that excited about having to replace them. There is also a potential heat issue to deal with when using bulbs as opposed to LEDs
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
redliteal!
Welcome to the forums!
I vote for LEDs too. No heat, low power draw, extremely long life....what else can you ask for?
Here are a few points about LEDs that may help you:
- Most LEDs operate in or around the 3 volt range. If you are going to use them, either you need to buy a dedicated 3 volt power supply, or if you are going to use a higher voltage you will need to use resistors to limit the power to the LEDs. There are many options in terms of what resistors will work but generally a 1K ohm 1/4 watt resistor will meet most of your needs. Resistors are available REALLY cheap from Digi-Key (like 100 for $2.00 or so) http://www.digikey.ca/ca/en/digihome.html. Digi-Key is an excellent source with great service.
- REALLY CHEAP LEDs can be found on eBay if you are careful. (Digi-Key has good prices too).
- LEDs come in many different sizes and shapes and colours. When I first started to use them I favoured the 3mm size with the typical round head. They are good for structure lighting and they are a good fit for most HO locomotive headlight replacements. More recently I have discovered SMD (surface mount device) 0603 LEDs that are much smaller. They are a bit tricky to solder but once you have done a few they become easy to handle. I use spring loaded tweezers to hold the LED steady while I solder the leads to it. You need very fine wire (I believe it is called 'magnet wire'). Also, I you are really pressed for space, you can get tiny SMD resistors to go with the small LEDs. That won't be the case in most interior structure lighting but if you want to add small lights over doorways or porch lights or street lights then the SMD LEDs are great.
- The colour thing can be a challenge. You will want to buy 'warm white' LEDs for most everything except imitating fluorescent lighting, where 'bright white' LEDs will do better. If you purchase LEDs that are too blueish for your tastes then all you need is some yellow paint (I use a Sharpie Paint Pen) to correct the colour.
- Typical round shaped LEDs focus the light in one direction. If you want a broader dispersal there are cone shaped LEDs that are designed to spread the light around, which is usually more effective inside a structure. These are usually 5mm LEDs, not the small stuff.
- To light most structures you will need multiple LEDs. To connect them together I usually use stiff wire as bus lines and solder the LED/resistor combos to the buses. Here is an example:
The bus wire I use is phospher bronze from Tichy Train Group. Anything that you can solder to easily will work. LION suggests welding wire. Apparently it is dirt cheap. I have never used it.
Hope this helps a bit.
Good luck with your structure lighting!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Wow.....thanks for the responses. What an amazing group of modellers.......and advice. Thanks so much.
redliteal Wow.....thanks for the responses. What an amazing group of modellers.......and advice. Thanks so much.
Man, you have no idea! These guys (and girls, I'm sure) are awesome, a ton of experience and don't have that "I found out on my own, so you need to do the same thing" attitude. Always helping out, even if it is a question that has been addressed before (like I asked a few days ago, too!) Hat's off to this community of fellow modelers!!
hon30critter The bus wire I use is phospher bronze from Tichy Train Group. Anything that you can solder to easily will work. LION suggests welding wire. Apparently it is dirt cheap. I have never used it. Hope this helps a bit. Good luck with your structure lighting! Dave
Dave, that looks fairly simple, but I bet I'm not the only one out there that would like to see what your structure looks like when lit.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Medina1128
Here is a pic of the lit structure. The quality of the shot is not too good and obviously I haven't done anything yet to stop the light bleeding through the walls:
hon30critter Here is a pic of the lit structure. The quality of the shot is not too good and obviously I haven't done anything yet to stop the light bleeding through the walls: Dave
Dave, this is why I prime and paint the interior walls before I install the windows. With an industrial building, a coat of grey auto primer blocks the light and looks totally "industrial". Depending on the buildings, I paint them different colors, usually sticking with pale pastel colors (off white, yellow, etc.) I really like that your building is very evenly lit, though.
hon30critter and obviously I haven't done anything yet to stop the light bleeding through the walls:
What about interior details (even photos sitting behind the windows)? Nothing like a well lit, see in structure that is an empty warehouse waiting for an owner or tenant.
Marlon and Doc in CT:
You are right, I should have painted the interiors of the walls before fitting the windows. I actually installed the windows before assembling the walls. I will know better next time. There may well be a next time because the windows distorted a bit from too much of the wrong type of glue so I am considering cutting all the windows out and replacing them.
I am planning to detail the interior and I have collected a number of machine tools and other shop detrius to do it with. The roof will be removable. I am also going to redo the lighting system with SMD LEDs and resistors and lamp shades so the effect will be more realistic. When I started this structure I was not familiar with the SMD 0603 LEDs. I will redo the buses too so they resemble a normal wiring system.
This was one of my first scratch built projects. I wish I had known more before I started it but heck, that's how you learn!
EDIT:
Marlon - I was trying to copy the style of the shop buildings on the East Broad Top Railway so the structure will be painted boxcar red with white trim outside, and brown inside to resemble unpainted wood. To block the light I was planning on spraying the whole thing black first.
Several manufacturers make cardstock material decorated to look like wood that would look nice as an interior, but if it doesn't need to be too detailed, you can just use construction paper too. You'd have to cut around the windows, but it can be done.
I've been using some LED's from the Walthers catalogue that are a bit pricey compared to some, but that come with diodes and resistors already attached, so you can power them with AC or DC - I've even hooked some up directly to the 14V AC track power of my DCC system and they work fine.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/266-U50
OK, I'm going to be a contrarian. I like incandescent bulbs for my structures. They naturally throw light in all directions, unlike LEDs, and I like the warm glow they give off. Of course, I model the Transition Era, so the more white or blue color of LEDs isn't the shade I'm looking for. This is a room of a structure I put a number of lights in:
I divided the building (floors and walls) with cheap art-store foam board. I printed floor and wall sheets to provide an interior, and lit a few of the rooms. The shades and venetian blinds are from City Classics. I think they add a lot to the windows. Here is the whole building, from the back without the back wall.
The interior walls and floors provide extra structural integrity to the building, but they also are effective light-blocks, making it possible to have some rooms lit and some not, which is much more appealing than an entire building of this type lit up completely.
I regret that I still haven't finished the interior for this building. I put it aside waiting for the "Shamrock Hotel" sign that will sit on top, and I just haven't gotten back to it.
I use 16-volt bulbs from Miniatronics. I run them at 12 volts, which gives me a nice, warm glow, runs the bulbs a lot cooler and greatly extends the life of the bulbs.
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