I am of the school that "there is no such thing as a dumb question", so here goes - Is there a optimum dimension or a maximum dimension for the thickness of the board and foam and roadway for an under-mount tortoise switch machine? I have 1/2" plywood plus 1" insulation foam plus 1/4" foam roadbed then N-gauge Code 80 track and Peco turnouts. Can the standard tortoise installation handle this assemblage?
Thanks in advance
You'll almost certainly need a thicker piece of piano wire than comes with the Tortoise, both for the extra distance through the foam and because of the spring in the Peco turnouts. That can be removed, and probably should be if you actually want to get slow motion on the points, otherwise the Tortoise will move untilt he tension on the actuating wire overcomes the Peco spring and the points will snap over just liek with the Peco motors.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I ran into the same problem while using woodland scenics risers. I just went and purchased some thin copper rods and extended the rod that came with the machine. You can use whatever works just as long as its about the same size as the original. Pain in the you know what.
If you use the Remote Tortoise Mount it changes the motion from a sliding action to a twisting action.
You will still probably need to remove the springs.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Look for Yankee Flyer's post in the topic on Atlas undertable switch motors, what he did there does exactly that - turns the Tortoise into a twist action that will work through any thickness (ok, after a few feet it might not work as well...) and all you need is a brass tube and a length of music wire. You cna even mount the Tortoise laying on its side to reduce how low it hangs. Without the expense of the remote mount. Though there still may be other uses for the remote mount.
The twist method works for other options like servos as well, I have one that way since there wasn't clearance directly under the throwbar.
LION has never had any luck using piano wire in place of the wire that came with the Tortoise.
When him needs something different him uses 1/16" welding rod. I have used it directly in the Tortoise in place of the wire that came with it, but then you have to enlarge the holes in the tortoise and in the throw bar. It is a bit too stiff, but seems to work anyway.
LION also off sets Tortoise machines to the edge of the layout, and used the 1/16" rod to connect from the turtle to the turnout. In some places this rod is in a "trench" that was cut out with a motor too. In other applications that was not necessary.
Tortoise are the most forgiving and most versatile machines that the LION has found, and if all else fails they will make a good soup too.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
As a follow up, I got an informative, responsive email back from a Circuitron representative regarding my question of "reach" for the Tortoise machine. Here are a few informative snippets:
The stock TORTOISE wire is adequate for a total of about 1 1/4" of combined thickness.
The TORTOISE is actually capable of over 16 ounces of thrust (side-to-side).
Not sure what issue you'd have with piano wire, but .037 or .039 is sufficiently stiff for more than 2" of foam plus plywood. Heavy duty lineman's pliers or a cutoff wheel in the Dremel will cut it, and a pair of needlenose pliers (mechanic size, not model size) will bend any hooks or loops you need to fit it in the Tortoise and turnout.
rrinker Not sure what issue you'd have with piano wire, but .037 or .039 is sufficiently stiff for more than 2" of foam plus plywood. Heavy duty lineman's pliers or a cutoff wheel in the Dremel will cut it, and a pair of needlenose pliers (mechanic size, not model size) will bend any hooks or loops you need to fit it in the Tortoise and turnout. --Randy
I guess there must be piano wire, and there is piano wire. I do not recall what size I tried, but it was not stiff enough move the switch points. Maybe my switch points are too tight.
It comes in any number of sizes, the stuff that comes with the Tortois eis like .020-something, and too flexible for anythign more than a short thickness of benchwork, 0.39 is quite stiff over a few inches, and they make even larger (as well as smaller, not that that is useful in this application).
JT505 As a follow up, I got an informative, responsive email back from a Circuitron representative regarding my question of "reach" for the Tortoise machine. Here are a few informative snippets: The stock TORTOISE wire is adequate for a total of about 1 1/4" of combined thickness. The TORTOISE is actually capable of over 16 ounces of thrust (side-to-side).
After all of this time, I don't understand why Circuitron does not simply include a heavier wire.
I always switch out the Circuitron wire for a .040 piano wire from K&S Engineering.
LION, what kind of problems do you experience with heavier gauge wire?
Rich
Alton Junction
I gues the majority still use hinged freely moving points like Atlas turnouts, so there's no bother. But with more of a trend towards extruded foam and thicker subroadbed than the 'traditional' plywood, maybe they will rethink it. I think the wire that comes in the Motak mounts for servos is .032, it's plenty stiff enough and would be fine if I only used 1 layer of 2" foam but I used 2 layers and the piece of wire supplied is not long enough. I gave all the included ones to my friend when he started going ot servos, he just glues them right tot he bottom of his plywood subroadbed so he doesn't need a long wire. The .032 operates his scratchbuilt all-rail (no hinge) N scale turnouts with no problem - then again code 40 rail is pretty flexible. He's used the stock wire on turnouts controlled with Tortoises as well, with just a 1/2" of plywood to work through it's strong enough.
I think Tortoise uses 0.022" wire attached to the throw bar. I've just installed a Bullfrog Manual Turnout control which uses a 0.037" wire, which is very stiff and should be strong enough for your application. BTW: the Bullfrog Manual Turnout control works extremely well, and I'm very impressed with its ease of installation and performance.
Wayne
Modeling HO Freelance Logging Railroad.
I'm telling the other piano players.