Has anyone had any recent experience dealing with Mianne benchwork?
I placed an order about 6 weeks ago. After a month I sent an email just asking politely if they had an estimated ship date. No response. So I called. It seems they remembered talking to me, but had lost my order. I asked what usual shipping time was, and all they said was I should have received it by then. So I gave them the list of items again. They indicated they should be able to get the order out by the next day. I called back again after two weeks to see if they had an estimated ship date. This time they seemed apologetic, remembered talking to me, but couldn't find my order. So I gave it to them a third time. This time they said they could get it shipped that week. Well now its the following week and no word from them yet. I'm afraid to call again because I don't want to be pushy and frankly I'd probably end up getting mad and canceling the order.
I originally placed the order with Mianne for three reasons:
First, I really like their product. It is very nice quality and unlike anything else out there. Since it has to go in my house and not in the garage, it is important to me (and the wife) that it looks nice. This stuff does.
Second, everything I read in previous posts indicated that Tim at Mianne was a pleasure to do business with. That was important to me.
Third, the whole concept of the Mianne benchwork is that it is expandable. However, that "feature" also requires a degree of trust. If I order something from them and then want to expand in six months, I would like to know that I can go back to them and order additional benchwork. The expandability is lost if they are flaky and unreliable to do business with and I can't get the additional items.
So my question: Is there something going on over there? It seems very strange that they keep "losing" my order. I am concerned now that they are going under or have changed priorities in their business and are no longer serving model railroad users. Normally I would have already taken my business elsewhere. However, there aren't any other comparable products that I have seen.
I should emphasize that I'm not here to publicly berate anyone. LIke I said, I really like their product. The quality is excellent and I still really want to buy it. I would think that with the holidays and all that perhaps I am being too impatient. However, that doesn't excuse not being up front with me and giving me an estimated delivery date or losing my order twice..
BTW, I sent a very short email to Sievers a week ago to inquire about their delivery times. They never responded to that. I am going to try calling them next. I would hope that they can be an alternative supplier of quality benchwork. I am capable to do the carpentry myself, but with my busy schedule I don't have much time for this hobby so I was looking to take a few short cuts here and there.
Any suggestions or advice on what to do?
Based on everything you wrote in your initial post, I would cancel the order if I were you.
At a minimum, they are unreliable.
At worst, given their inattention to detail, I would be afraid to see their final product.
Rich
Alton Junction
I agree with Rich. How big an operation are they? If it's one person making the product, there may be health or family issues that are delaying the production and shipment of your order. In any case, they owe you some explanation for the loss of your order and the lack of product. If they can't give you an explanation that seems reasonable, I'd cancel the order and go to another vendor. I'd be really concerned about their reliability, especially if you plan to use their product in the future for the expansion of your layout.
Benchwork is not that difficult to build. I'd suggest you get a copy of Jeff Wilson's book, "Basic Model Railroad Benchwork - The Complete Photo Guide" or the latest edition of Linn Westcott's book, "How to Build Model Railroad Benchwork". Depending on the size of your layout, I think you'll find it doesn't take that long to build good quality benchwork without the aggravation of dealing with a non-responsive vendor. In addition, you'll have the satisfaction of having done it yourself and probably save money in the process.
Good luck,
Bob
I would call today or tomorrow and if it hasn't shipped, cancel the order. If it has shipped, ask who and get a tracking number. That way you can monitor it yourself.
Good luck
Paul
Check your credit card for sure. Regardless of what is going on with-in a business this sounds bad. My advise is, get out, get out, get out! I have had two problems such as this in my 60 yr plus life and never messed with unreliable businesses again. It's called piece of mind. DR
The old saying goes
Fool me once shame on you
Fool me twice shame on me
Don't Ever Give Up
Cancel and call Sievers, e-mails can be lost or misdirected, everyone assumes e-mails are infallable but they are not. Sievers has been arround a long time and if I was in your situation, I would be buying theirs!!!!!!!!!!!!!
K. Holt I'm afraid to call again because I don't want to be pushy and frankly I'd probably end up getting mad and canceling the order.
At this point, you're not being "pushy." If you still want to give them the benefit of the doubt, ask if they can ship in the next two days. If they say no, then cancel. If they say yes, wait two days and ask for a tracking number. If it hasn't shipped, cancel the order. You have been very patient with them already, and they have only themselves to blame.
Check your credit card bill (online if possible) and see if they have charged your card. If they charged it immediately when you placed the order, that's a red flag right there. Contact your credit card company and ask how long you have after a charge is made to dispute the charge. You may be running close to a 60-day limit, and you want to make sure you can get this off your card without having to hassle with the supplier.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Well I went ahead and called them again this morning. This time they definitely remembered me. They promised once again that they would get the order out this week and they didn't ask me to repeat the items I ordered. It sounds like an employee quit there and he is short handed - not sure exactly.
Meanwhile Sievers returned my phone call (how refreshing to get return calls from a vendor!). They said they typically ship in 3 days give or take 1 or 2 days.
So my plan is to give Mianne until the end of the week and then order from Sievers on Monday if I don't get a shipping notice. I hope I don't regret this. I only ordered about half of what I will eventually need, so if I can't go back for repeat business I will have made a huge mistake. My problem at the moment is I already cut all the Baltic Birch plywood to the dimensions of the Mianne benchwork. So I'm already invested a couple hundred dollars into the Mianne solution. However that is a minor issue compared to getting my layout half built and then finding I'm unable to get the follow-on order fullfilled.
I learned a long time ago to trust my first instincts. Usually when something doesn't seem right from 3000 miles away its probably because it isn't. Unfortunately I seem to have forgotten this lesson this time. I'm really relying on the positive comments that Mianne has received from several members of this board in the past. It seems that at least at one time this was a good company that people liked doing business with. I hope whatever is going on right now is just a temporary thing. I really wouldn't mind it if he had just told me up front that he had a 8-12 week backlog. I would have just patiently waited. Telling me over and over that he will get the order out in a matter of days though is not how a responsible business treats their customers.
I'll let everyone know how it turns out.
Another saying
Liuve and learn
I have never actually ordered from them. I sent them an inquiry a couple of years ago about a special need. They never answered it, so I moved on.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
K. Holt It seems very strange that they keep "losing" my order.
It seems very strange that they keep "losing" my order.
Have you seen that new skit they do on one of the ESPN football shows...........
"C'MON MAN!"
Seriously man...do you really believe a small business could "lose" an order. Me, I would have moved on weeks ago. Yikes!
The St. Francis Consolidated Railroad of the Colorado Rockies
Denver, Colorado
This sounds like an iffy place to do business. Assuming you eventually get what you ask, and if they know you need more, now they have you completely by the short ones.
It is nothing short of discourteous to neglect to inform a prospective customer, or one with whom you had agreed to provide materials or a service, that you are falling behind. I think it is unethical, too. If you value people, just for being people, and not because they happen to be customers, you would offer them the courtesy of learning of your predicament, and you would free them to find other ways to get what they need when they need it. Look at it this way: suppose our friend here had arranged, at long last, and after much negotiation, to get three friends to come over and help him to erect the materials on a Sunday afternoon. It took some doing, but finally a Sunday afternoon could be penciled in on a calendar where they were all free. Our friend contracts for the materials to be delivered well ahead of time, say two full weeks. If we go by the timeline he has given us, that Sunday would long since have passed, and he STILL hasn't managed to pry a shipment notice out of the supplier.
That kind of service belongs well sunk in a one-holer out back.
Why didn't you cancel the order like everyone suggested.
This is some Tony The Tiger stuff going on. ie. Frosted Flakes.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Customer service these days is pretty terrible, but this story beats most. Treating a customer with cash in hand this way makes me cringe thinking about how they'll treat you if/when you have a problem. You think you're not getting callbacks now? Try calling with a problem, lol.
Take your money & run.
Let's say they do come through for you. Great. But their customer servicve remains terrible and they're OUT OF BUSINESS by the time you want to buy the items to finish your layout. Judging by this story, it seems likely to happen. Now what? The "what" is you'll have to either build the remaining pieces yourself, which you've already said you don't want to do... or find another place to $$$ custom build $$$ it and hope it matches up, or toss it and start fresh. No options are good options there.
Take your money and run.
-Ed
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." -Aristotle
Wow, I guess I'm a tiny bit surprised by how overwhelmingly negative the consensus view is here. I guess I was somehow expecting (hoping?) someone to speak up for them based on their past positive experience, or perhaps to remind me that most of these hobby businesses are very small one man operations that struggle financially and that I should be more understanding and not have the same expectations as if I am dealing with a more established business outside the hobby industry.
My problem is that I believe in their product. It is very nice. However, if they let me down again this week by not meeting their promises I will willingly admit to being a fool on this issue.
I appreciate all the feedback. It helps me to know I'm not being unreasonable, and if I have to switch to Sievers on Monday I will know that I (finally) did the right thing.
Keith
K. Holt Wow, I guess I'm a tiny bit surprised by how overwhelmingly negative the consensus view is here. I guess I was somehow expecting (hoping?) someone to speak up for them based on their past positive experience, or perhaps to remind me that most of these hobby businesses are very small one man operations that struggle financially and that I should be more understanding and not have the same expectations as if I am dealing with a more established business outside the hobby industry. My problem is that I believe in their product. It is very nice. However, if they let me down again this week by not meeting their promises I will willingly admit to being a fool on this issue. I appreciate all the feedback. It helps me to know I'm not being unreasonable, and if I have to switch to Sievers on Monday I will know that I (finally) did the right thing. Keith
Keith,
I will remind you what you first wrote. Here it is, verbatim.
I placed an order about 6 weeks ago. After a month I sent an email just asking politely if they had an estimated ship date. No response. So I called. It seems they remembered talking to me, but had lost my order. I asked what usual shipping time was, and all they said was I should have received it by then. So I gave them the list of items again. They indicated they should be able to get the order out by the next day. I called back again after two weeks to see if they had an estimated ship date. This time they seemed apologetic, remembered talking to me, but couldn't find my order. So I gave it to them a third time. This time they said they could get it shipped that week. Well now its the following week and no word from them yet.
There is a difference between being a small business and being incompetent. They lose your order, they don't respond, then they lose your order again. They are incompetent.
Wow! Color me really, really cheap, but I just went to the Mianne and Sievers web sites and priced the products. Please don't think I'm bad mouthing these solutions, but I find them very expensive for what they are. I know they have a place in the hobby, but I really didn't expect them to be so pricey. I actually had been considering Seivers as an option, and I didn't know about Mianne, so your OP got me to looking. I will be going with my original domino design using 1/4" and 1/2" plywood witth 3/4" homasote. I can assemble all of the sections of my 8' x 10' x 5' shelf layout for the less than the cost of two 2' x 4' Mianne sections. I have the tools and time to cut and assemble the plywood into the layout sections I need, so I guess I'm in a different situation. Thanks for the push to look though.
Jim - Preserving the history of the NKP Cloverleaf first subdivision.
Jamis Wow! Color me really, really cheap, but I just went to the Mianne and Sievers web sites and priced the products. Please don't think I'm bad mouthing these solutions, but I find them very expensive for what they are. I know they have a place in the hobby, but I really didn't expect them to be so pricey. I actually had been considering Seivers as an option, and I didn't know about Mianne, so your OP got me to looking. I will be going with my original domino design using 1/4" and 1/2" plywood witth 3/4" homasote. I can assemble all of the sections of my 8' x 10' x 5' shelf layout for the less than the cost of two 2' x 4' Mianne sections. I have the tools and time to cut and assemble the plywood into the layout sections I need, so I guess I'm in a different situation. Thanks for the push to look though.
Well, you're right about that... guys like you and me, with decent woodworking skills, can whack this stuff out -- similar quality, even -- for a fraction of the cost.
The other issue is that benchwork doesn't have to be showroom quality. It just has to be functional. A lot of people think they can't build benchwork, but if they can use a saw, a carpenter's square, and a measuring tape, they probably can. Power tools make it easier, but are not essential (and they can be rented pretty cheaply).
For the OP.... you say you believe in their product, but have you ever seen it? The other thing is, you expected people to defend them (I can't... never used them) but the title of your post doesn't exactly pull Mianne users in. Maybe if you started another one, using their name in the title, you'd get better results.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
I have the Sievers benchwork because I have neither the tools nor the time nor inclination to make the benchwork myself. The service was excellent, the product is excellent, and I recommend it although it is admittedly more costly than building from scratch. You might be able to adapt your plywood to the Siever module sizes which are of common dimensions.
Dante
PS. They might even be willing to do custom sizes-for a price, I would imagine.
PPS. It looks good, too, in reference to one of your comments about Mianne. I painted mine because it is in a finished room, and I wanted to minimize moisture absorption although it is in a controlled environment.
K. Holt Wow, I guess I'm a tiny bit surprised by how overwhelmingly negative the consensus view is here. I guess I was somehow expecting (hoping?) someone to speak up for them based on their past positive experience,
Wow, I guess I'm a tiny bit surprised by how overwhelmingly negative the consensus view is here. I guess I was somehow expecting (hoping?) someone to speak up for them based on their past positive experience,
What negative consensus view are you talking about? I don't remember any of the responders saying that they had any personal direct issues with that company, and certainly none of them directly know of any issues that company might be having other than what you posted, nor do they know of any quality problems with the product. Basically they are criticising you for not following their after the fact advice. Sort of kicking you when you're down.
You have to use your own judgement on what course of action to take. If you really believe in the product, then maybe you want to be patient to the extreme. If they charge your credit card and don't ship the product, then that's fraud and an entirely different matter.
I would agree that both Sievers and Mianne are expensive, and although I haven't priced it out myself, I'm not convinced it is "over priced". There is a big difference in the cost of good quality wood that has been furthermore sanded or finished as nicely as these products are vs just buying some construction grade lumber at the local Home Depot or Lowes. In my original post, I explained that in my case it wasn't sufficient for the product to just be functional. I do in fact want it to look nice. It is going in my home and for that reason alone means it needs to be wife friendly if nothing else. I don't have a dedicated room for it. It will go in the game room along with the big screen TV etc. I don't expect furniture quality, but construction lumber isn't getting in the door here. Of course once the fascia board is up and all, it probably won't be noticeable either way, but at the pace I am likely to be able to proceed, that is all going to take time. Also, I'm at a phase of my life where money is much more plentiful than time (i.e., I'm not retired yet). I don't consider the cost to be an obstacle here at all. But I do want to work with a reputable company that I can go back to later.
Anyway, I am digressing considerably from the purpose of this thread.
My choices are pretty simple: either continue to wait and hope or go with Sievers. I guess I have made up my mind in that I will give Mianne a chance to do what they said again this week they will do, but this is their last chance and they won't get another if they don't keep their word this time. I am willing to do this because there are too many positive reviews in this forum regarding this company. Something just doesn't add up. This thread certainly won't help their business and so now I feel a certain responsibility to make sure they don't get screwed by my having posted this. If they come through for me I will make sure that data is posted here to be fair to them, but if they don't, then I guess they deserve what follows.
hi Keith,
the local carpenter or cabinet maker could do it too. he can leave the actual build up to you.
St Francis Consolidated RR Have you seen that new skit they do on one of the ESPN football shows........... "C'MON MAN!"
It USED to be my favorite segment on Monday night... now, my poor Raiders are on it every week. It's a lot more fun when they feature teams I don't like!
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
K. Holt I would agree that both Sievers and Mianne are expensive, and although I haven't priced it out myself, I'm not convinced it is "over priced". There is a big difference in the cost of good quality wood that has been furthermore sanded or finished as nicely as these products are vs just buying some construction grade lumber at the local Home Depot or Lowes. In my original post, I explained that in my case it wasn't sufficient for the product to just be functional. I do in fact want it to look nice. It is going in my home and for that reason alone means it needs to be wife friendly if nothing else. I don't have a dedicated room for it. It will go in the game room along with the big screen TV etc. I don't expect furniture quality, but construction lumber isn't getting in the door here.
I would agree that both Sievers and Mianne are expensive, and although I haven't priced it out myself, I'm not convinced it is "over priced". There is a big difference in the cost of good quality wood that has been furthermore sanded or finished as nicely as these products are vs just buying some construction grade lumber at the local Home Depot or Lowes. In my original post, I explained that in my case it wasn't sufficient for the product to just be functional. I do in fact want it to look nice. It is going in my home and for that reason alone means it needs to be wife friendly if nothing else. I don't have a dedicated room for it. It will go in the game room along with the big screen TV etc. I don't expect furniture quality, but construction lumber isn't getting in the door here.
I have no familiarity with Sievers whatsoever. However, from a quick tour of their web site, there is no assurance that the lumber they use is any better than lumber purchased at Home Depot or Lowes or, for that matter, your local lumber yard.
The web site indicates that they use unfinished 3/4" x 3 1/2" No. 2 pine lumber, accurately cut and sanded. That is what is commonly referred to as a "1 by 4" board. It is construction grade. If you want the top grade of 1 by 4 pine, you would select a No. 1 grade which is a grade higher than No. 2 grade. Furthermore, there are grade characteristics that define finishes suitable for construction, cabinetry, painting, staining, etc. Sievers doesn't specify the finish grade.
Now, I am not contending that Sievers uses lower quality lumber, but I am suggesting that you may be overestimating the quality of the lumber used to construct the framework.
I am not familiar with either product, however I just checked out both Mianne and Siever's wesites for product and specs. As mentioned, the Siever's is nothing more than precut #2 pine (big deal- wiring holes and predrilled countersink assy).
I can see why you do really like the Mianne product. It is hardwood. Legs are 2x2 w/ supplied adjusters. The Joists or I beam is fabricated truss of hardwood/ masonite web. The doweling and camlock feature is rather strong as well as quick. No one her seems to have any experience w/ the product or company. It is quite a decent looking system (this is coming from a quick look and desciption off website) I am a professional woodworker.
It is a real shame that you are having so much trouble with getting your order. There is absolutely no comparison between the quality of these 2 products.
If you really do need to go w/ something else, especially since (I assume you have the 1/2" birch precut), just have a carpenter or someone with tools/ decent woodworking skills cut and assemble the pine structure for you. That extreme cost for #2 pine plus shipping and possible loss of not being able to use the $200 woth of birch, may actually end up costing the same.
This is actually the first time ever really looking at prefabed benchwork of any kind. Why would I? I am an experience finish carpenter/ general contractor. I hope that the Mianne will come through for you.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Yippee!
I just got a shipping notice. My Mianne benchwork is on its way. A big thank you to the anonymous hand that helped pry things loose for me. I am looking forward to receiving this.
P.S. I think this confirms again my suspicion that people are almost always fundamentally honest and will do the right thing eventually. Sometimes they just need a little extra "encouragement" to pay attention and do what they said they were going to do...
richhotrain I have no familiarity with Sievers whatsoever. However, from a quick tour of their web site, there is no assurance that the lumber they use is any better than lumber purchased at Home Depot or Lowes or, for that matter, your local lumber yard. The web site indicates that they use unfinished 3/4" x 3 1/2" No. 2 pine lumber, accurately cut and sanded. That is what is commonly referred to as a "1 by 4" board. It is construction grade. If you want the top grade of 1 by 4 pine, you would select a No. 1 grade which is a grade higher than No. 2 grade. Furthermore, there are grade characteristics that define finishes suitable for construction, cabinetry, painting, staining, etc. Sievers doesn't specify the finish grade. Now, I am not contending that Sievers uses lower quality lumber, but I am suggesting that you may be overestimating the quality of the lumber used to construct the framework. Rich
I can only speak to what I received: the wood is at least #2-very close to #1-and precisely cut and drilled and sanded. Also, straight and true. I painted it because that is the finish I want; however, it would have been quite suitable for stain or even a clear finish if that is what one prefers. The hardware is as good as you can find anywhere. I saw Mianne benchwork at a show some time ago and was favorably impressed, but Sievers seemed to be a more rugged assembly (and it has proved to be so).
K. Holt I would agree that both Sievers and Mianne are expensive, and although I haven't priced it out myself, I'm not convinced it is "over priced". There is a big difference in the cost of good quality wood that has been furthermore sanded or finished as nicely as these products are vs just buying some construction grade lumber at the local Home Depot or Lowes. In my original post, I explained that in my case it wasn't sufficient for the product to just be functional. I do in fact want it to look nice. It is going in my home and for that reason alone means it needs to be wife friendly if nothing else. I don't have a dedicated room for it. It will go in the game room along with the big screen TV etc. I don't expect furniture quality, but construction lumber isn't getting in the door here. Of course once the fascia board is up and all, it probably won't be noticeable either way, but at the pace I am likely to be able to proceed, that is all going to take time. Also, I'm at a phase of my life where money is much more plentiful than time (i.e., I'm not retired yet). I don't consider the cost to be an obstacle here at all. But I do want to work with a reputable company that I can go back to later. Anyway, I am digressing considerably from the purpose of this thread. My choices are pretty simple: either continue to wait and hope or go with Sievers. I guess I have made up my mind in that I will give Mianne a chance to do what they said again this week they will do, but this is their last chance and they won't get another if they don't keep their word this time. I am willing to do this because there are too many positive reviews in this forum regarding this company. Something just doesn't add up. This thread certainly won't help their business and so now I feel a certain responsibility to make sure they don't get screwed by my having posted this. If they come through for me I will make sure that data is posted here to be fair to them, but if they don't, then I guess they deserve what follows. Keith
Keith --
I don't think you have to worry about "screwing" the folks at Mienne. After all, you're only relating YOUR experience, not badmouthing them because you had a bad experience. That is, you're not trying to generalize about the company based on your bad experience. Were I going to order from them I would certainly consider your experience, but I'd take other things and opinions into consideration as well.
BTW, you know Woodland Scenics makes benchwork modules, too, right? They are cheaper, although not as customizable (and a little low for my liking, IIRC).
As far as your opinion on looking nice goes, I understand that it's going in your home, and that you might give significant weight to the appearance. I'm a pretty fair carpenter, and have made several pieces of furniture (I'm just finishing up a set of Adirondack furniture for my deck -- didn't quite get it done in time to enjoy it, but that's another story), and I assure you that what you dismiss as "construction quality" lumber can be made into pieces that look quite nice (my train display shelf, for one). It depends on how much care you take with it. However, what I meant was that the benchwork doesn't need to be the part that's visible to the outsiders. I have helped people put wood paneling around the lower edge of the layout to hide the girder structure, and likewise I have seen many layouts with a simple valance, which hides things quite nicely. You could also use thin plywood or tempered hardboard covered with adhesive backed wood veneers... or just paint it (AC grade, or "one good side" plywood works pretty well for this). In fact, given that you'll likely have wires, switch machines and what not under your layout, you'll probably WANT to hide the benchwork at some point. None of these things are very hard to do, and they will all probably serve you better than bare, stained, or painted benchwork if appearance is important to you.
K.Holt, to answer your question as to what to do, I say cancel your order and trash their name and reputation on as many venues/forums as possible. Just make sure what you post is the facts and truth as to how you feel about it.
I have had bad dealings with companies I ordered from on the internet. I had no problem stating the true, negative facts about the company and how I feel about their poor customer service. {Moderated for Language}
One person with positive things to say about a company can bring in 10 new customers. But that same person with something bad to say about a company can cost that company 100 customers.
{Moderated for Language}