well that about sums up what I saw today in the train room ...Its been warm ,but the room is insulated but no AC. mostly what has lifted is un glued turnouts an such but a couple a turns are buckling where may be caulk was light under track...note NOTHING is ballasted yet ..
is there a fix such as expansion cuts in rail ? Jerry
Did you just lay this track? Is it just the track that is buckled, or is the table and/or cork buckled. It could be moisture. We have wood floors that do this every summer. It could also be scenic elements. I tried paper-machie which pulled up as it dried.
LION would suspect a shifting of the sub bed rather than the tracks. They are not all that heavy.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
just the track ,layed last spring . also on very stable wood frame and foam sub base . no moister at all here in high desert of so. cal
Expansion cuts should relieve the situation. I have my curved tracks soldered but have some slight gaps in my unsoldered straight sections. none of my turnouts are soldered. seems to work
It is the plywood under the track, humidity causes it to expand. Lift up a section where it is buckled, trim it off a bit and relay it. You need a dehumidifier in your train room.
Larry
http://www.youtube.com/user/ClinchValleySD40
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52481330@N05/
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/page/1/ppuser/8745/sl/c
thanks guys but I dont think its humidity as I live in the high desert extreme dry or the sub base ,but well lean towards gaps as weve had some hot but normal 100 degree days . as for the turnouts they were NOT glued or soldered and I thought I left a small gap but I well keep an eye to see if they lay down as it cools off.....Larry as allways I highly respect youre advise and hope Im not beinng stuburn with my thinking on the sub road bed and humidity...thanks again Jerry
Deflections in track of the bowing kind are not caused by excessive humidity, but by too little humidity! At least, a fair bit less humidity than when the wood was put together and the tracks laid. As the wood dries, it shrinks. As it shrinks, it brings the track elements tightly together....a bit too tightly, it seems. The result of the pressure is buckling. Since you are in an excessively dry area, your own words, you might need a humidifier, not a de-humidifer.
Crandell
thanks Crandle;interesting but its wood frame 1x material thats recycled and was sitting here for at least 1 year plus in stacked and bench and the ply is kiln dry cabinet scraps of the 1/4 " thickness ,I was at least 1 &1/2 years before I put foam on the bench work and then track ,but what you say makes since and again I hope I'M not being stubborn here ..also coming from outside G-scale Ive seen how rail expands from heat ,I know its larger rail than code 83 ,but it moved to the tune of inches on hot days and MUST float or leave large gaps at joints ....again hope I'm not being stubborn here....thanks again Jerry
Crandell is right. It is the drying out and shrinking of the wood that is the problem. I went for years on the "wet" coast of Canada with not so much as a sniff of a problem of shrinkage. Then came the brand new high efficiency furnace. The company rep said that the new high efficiency furnaces really lower the humidity in the house and that it is an undesirable side effect of saving lots of money on the gas bill. He said lots of people end up calling them back and having a humidifier installed.
I was glad I used caulk to fasten down the track as all I had to do was run the scraper along the underside of the track a foot or so in either direction and then I cut both rails. Next I straightened the track out and overlapped the two pieces and snipped a bit off, reattached, recaulked and strategically place the appropriate number of cans of Moosehead Beer to weigh down said track and within two hours I was running trains and drinking Moosehead. Isn't life grand?
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Thanks Brent; hard to swallow ,(with my foot in my mouth ) but I'l have to except and get out of my deniel state a mind . and start resolving the problem....thanks again Jerry
As noted the problem would be from the wood drying out over time. If you just straighten it out and leave a couple of expansion joints you should be good to go. Just make it part of your routine to check the joints every now and then to see if the gap is changing. That way you catch it before having a problem.
I also experienced track bowing a few years ago. Just part of the hobby sometimes.
Springfield PA
thanks Rich(hamiltonblue);thats the approach I'm going to take...Jerry
Does it look like this?
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Hi Big Jerr
I've had this. I am building a double decker HO in my loft that climbs from one level the other around the layout. As it's in the loft, the roof is slanted on 2 sides to the apex. I put plasterboard across the roof joists and infilled with insulation material.
I had to lay the track that climbs around the perimeter first. This was on 3/4 marine ply and cork. The 3/4 ply was solidly anchored with coach bolts to the supports. The cork was fixed with PVA glue. Track was fixed with calk. I only soldered the Peco code 83 sections that were for the curved sections but left the straights unsoldered with a slight gap. This was to handle the heat from the sun on the roof in the summer. As I thought!
The first summer I had buckled rail on the one corner that faced the sun the most and on one track only. The track buckled a huge amount and at a soldered secrion. I assume that the expansion was taken up around the whole track to this one point. None of this was casued by humidity, warped ply (that's why I bought marine ply) or anything but metal expanding when heated.
FIx? I installed AC in the loft. Problems? No more...... EXCEPT when I didn't turn it on one day on an extremely hot day and the track buckeld in the same place again. Fix? I bought a timer for the AC.
Hope this helps!
well I went out this morn and checked it ,the unglued turnouts (in ladder) were still a bit bowed up so I opened up the unsoldered joints (left some unsoldered joints w/sliding joiner for maint.)and relieved the pressure so the turnouts dont stay bowed.... wow ,its going to take a bit more than 1 or 2 business card thickness gaps two relieve shrinkage or expansion or what ever camp your in.
funny the layout is built domino style with bench work joints every 7 to 8 feet (for future move),I just haven't cut the track over those joints yet . I think I have to do that now !....Jerry
Jerry.
Some of us in the great north east learned to paint every piece of benchwork before assembly. Even plywood around here expands and contracts wildly in the changing humidity. The paint will limit the moisture intake and drying out. My portable modules are a great example of how the paint works. I can take them from my 70 degree house with 20% humidity and carry them through the rain and store them in the covered damp pickup over night for a show the next day that may be snowing and cold with no expansion or contraction problems at all.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Second the painting idea. i used enamel and have had success here in FL.
It's your track. I had the same problem. I built a 24 by 8 layout in an unheated garage at the cottage. I have a wood stove and a gas heater for when I'm working out there in cool weather. But when I'm not there the temp can go from 0 to 100 over the course of a season. I laid some beautiful soldered track, and the following summer it was all buckled. It really only takes an 1/8 or 1/16 of an inch expansion, to buckle the track.
I relaid the track and unsoldered the joints, leaving about a 1/16 gap at each joint. That did the trick. No more buckling. A nice little plus is the realistic clickity clack of the wheels over the rail joints.
hobo9941 It's your track. I had the same problem. I built a 24 by 8 layout in an unheated garage at the cottage. I have a wood stove and a gas heater for when I'm working out there in cool weather. But when I'm not there the temp can go from 0 to 100 over the course of a season. I laid some beautiful soldered track, and the following summer it was all buckled. It really only takes an 1/8 or 1/16 of an inch expansion, to buckle the track. I relaid the track and unsoldered the joints, leaving about a 1/16 gap at each joint. That did the trick. No more buckling. A nice little plus is the realistic clickity clack of the wheels over the rail joints.
Second the motion!
My layout occupies a non-climate-controlled garage in Clark County, NV (aka the Las Vegas Valley.) The temperature can vary by 100 degrees over a year, and as much as 50 degrees over a twelve hour span. OTOH, humidity is something that usually qualifies as a rumor - if it reaches two-digit status the local weather weenie calls it, "High (!)"
My solution? I NEVER EVER solder rail joints. They are free to slide. In sub-freezing January dawn they may be as wide as 1.5mm. On a nice, cosy 122 degree August midafternoon they are solidly butted.
I did slip and lay a few sections of flex on a curve with insufficient gaps. The pressure apparently concentrated at the joints, which broke loose and kinked sideways. Happily for all concerned, the simple, straightforward cure was to lift the offending lengths, apply fresh caulk and re-lay, approximately .25mm farther apart. This summer they stayed put.
Does electrical continuity suffer? No. I solder jumpers around every uninsulated rail joint.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Hi,
The situation I had may not apply to you, but maybe it does..........
I built an 11x15 HO layout in a spare room - where temp and humidity are nicely controlled. After construction of the benchwork, the main trackage was laid, with the roadbed caulked and the track nailed down. One day I came up and found several warps in the track, which just didn't make any sense at all.
Well, with the help of some of our fellow Forum members, we figured out the plywood had finally dried out and shrunk, causing the problem. Even though I had the wood for a few months before construction, it was still "wet".
Fortunately, a cut off disc in the Dremel quickly straightened out most of the problems, and I only had to re lay three or four areas.
In short, the problem was the wet wood, and nothing more (but that was sure enough).
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I do thank ALL for ther input and experiance and WELL be taking actions recomended here . gapping the track was part of the plan ,but wanted to wait till ballested (more strenth @ joints) ,and all my rail feeders are in (been lazy here) the feeders are 2 top of must do list... thanks again Jerry
I'm working on that now. When the track and layout was new, trains ran perfectly all over the layout, with just a single pair of feeders for the whole layout. Now trains are stalling all over the layout, even after I clean the track. I suspect a small amount of corrosion developes on and around the rail joiners. I usually run two or more locos in my consists, and when both locos stall, I know it isn't power pickup problems or dirty track.