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Clarification request, if you could

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  • Member since
    September 2010
  • 63 posts
Clarification request, if you could
Posted by OracleUsr on Friday, May 6, 2011 11:55 AM

I'm looking at a layout with about 10 turnouts of varying types (snap-switch, #4 Custom Line and #6 custom line).  I use Atlas track because the book I'm reading lists parts specifically to the Atlas line and I've been very happy with Atlas track (code 83 by the way, HO scale).

Eventually I would like to control the turnouts using a stationary decoder, but I'd like to phase that in as I'm still learning how to use DCC.

In the meantime, I have two turnouts from the Atlas snap-track starter set that seem to work fine (had to replace the switch in one of them, but that was easy to do).

The book, HO Railroad Start to Finish, talks about wiring a control panel to power the turnouts, but they're talking about Kato Unitrack turnouts, and I wasn't that impressed with the Kato selection, plus, as they said, it's expensive.  That's why I was happy to see the track layout in Atlas (plus, I can learn how to work with flextrack).

My issue is, there is no mention of what to use for wiring Atlas turnouts.  I see the 'net has Atlas Snap Relays, but do these take the place of the switches on the turnouts or do they complement them?

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Hillsboro, Oregon
  • 934 posts
Posted by Eric97123 on Friday, May 6, 2011 12:05 PM

If I understand your question, is what to use for the switched when going DCC.  I would check out the Digitrax website for decoders that work with what ever type of switch throw you are using. http://www.digitrax.com/menu_statdecoders.php 

 

as I went back and re read your question.. I think it might have been -what is used to power the switches.  You can buy a powered throw to replaced the manual switch or you can buy powered switches which will include everything you need other than the physical wiring between the track switch and the actual plastic switch you mount somewhere on your control board. 

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,481 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Friday, May 6, 2011 1:04 PM

You can buy Atlas snap-switches with either "manual" or "remote" units.  The manual ones are just that - you need to throw them by hand.  The remote ones can be activated electrically.  They come with a button and plenty of wire - assuming, of course, that the turnout is no more than 2 feet from the button.  The Atlas custom-lines I have bought (in Code 100) do not have any switch machines, although they are compatable with the snap-switch units which can be purchased separately.

Atlas snap-relays don't drive turnouts.  They are typically wired in parallel with Atlas switch machines, and are used to provide contact closures for wiring frogs, signals or panel indicators.

Atlas also makes under-table switch machines to drive turnouts, and "deluxe" under-table switch machines, which will both drive turnouts and provide contact closures.  The under-table units have 1-inch throw bars, so they are designed for 1/2 to 3/4 inch tables plus 1/4 inch roadbed.

Any of these requires a power supply and a control button.  I would recommend NOT using the buttons supplied by Atlas.  They are big and clumsy, and don't lend themselves to schematic track diagrams.  Besides, they have a high failure rate.  Instead, get a single-pole, double-throw (SPDT) momentary-contact toggle.  If you're going to use Atlas machines, you'd might as well get a Capacitive Discharge unit to drive them, or build one yourself and use a generic DC power supply.  It's two capacitors and two resistors.

You are not required to use DCC to control your turnouts.  You can if you want to, but most of us prefer to keep a control panel for that purpose, or use ground throws.  I believe you can set up DCC control in parallel to your panel, too, so, like most things about DCC, you can have the best of both worlds.

You may also drive your Atlas turnouts with something else, like the manual Caboose ground-throws, or Tortoise slow-motion switch machines.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • 49 posts
Posted by emman on Friday, May 6, 2011 1:04 PM

The book on this page http://www.atlasrr.com/wiring.htm is a great reference on how to wire your layout including turnouts with remote control switches and a control panel using Atlas parts. See if your LHS has it. It's helped me wire two layouts with ease.

Have fun!

 

Emman

  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: Colorado
  • 4,075 posts
Posted by fwright on Friday, May 6, 2011 1:16 PM

I'm not real sure what the starting point is (current configuration and status) for your Atlas turnouts.  So starting from scratch, there are many ways to move the points on an Atlas turnout:

  • Atlas switch machines - these mount on the side of the turnout.  On the remote Snap Switches, these are pre-installed.
  • Atlas under-the-table switch machines - these mount under the subroadbed.  They generally only work where the vertical distance from turnout to machine is one inch or less.
  • commerical manual throws - Caboose Industries, Humpyard levers, Blue Point, Bullfrog, etc.  Depending on how it is set up, these are used very close to the turnout, or can be controlled from a fair distance like the fascia.
  • home-made manual throws.  Many articles on making these in various configurations.
  • other switch machines and motors - Tortoise, Rix, NJ Industries, are soem of the more common brands.  These are generally mounted underneath, and use some kind of linkage to move the points.  The Tortoise is a stall motor drive that uses a different powering scheme than twin coil machines like Atlas and the others.

If you use a twin coil switch machine, you can use the Atlas control switches, push buttons, or momentary toggles.  A couple of souls still use a probe and screws instead of the electrical switches mentioned.  The advantage of any method but the Atlas control switches is the ability to embed the switches in a track diagram instead of using numbering or lettering codes.  Twin coil machines need a momentary burst of power, and will burn out if the power is left on.  A Capacitive Discharge unit will improve the operation and longevity of twin coil machines, and is recommended.  You can build your own easily or buy one from Circuitron.

A Tortoise is left on at all times, so a different type of electrical control is used.  There are plenty of instructions on the control alternatives for the Tortoise.

The Atlas Snap Relay provides the extra electrical contacts that Atlas switch machines do not (most other switch machines have).  One set of contacts is frequently used to power the frog on Atlas turnouts.  This is a good idea if you have small wheel base or traditonal steam engines, but is not absolutely necessary .  Other contacts can be used for indicator lights on a panel or signals on the layout.

hope this gets you started

Fred W

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • 63 posts
Posted by OracleUsr on Friday, May 6, 2011 5:05 PM

I've got the following:

2 Atlas snap switches (1 LH 1RH).

4 Atlas Custom line #4 turnouts (2 LH, 2 RH)

1 Atlas Custom Line #6 turnout (1 LH)

I thought about the under-table switch machine, but my table + subroadbed is almost 3" thick, and that doesn't include the roadbed I will eventually put under the rails.  I don't necessarily need indicator lamps on the turnouts (nice to have, I guess, though), but I would rather not have manual turnouts if possible.

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • 63 posts
Posted by OracleUsr on Sunday, May 8, 2011 3:16 PM

I bought the Atlas wiring guide yesterday and flipped through it; it's very extensive and I did some thinking as I looked through it.  I'm pondering taking off the foam board and using the plywood as a subroadbed instead, as I mention in another post.  This trackwork book I got seems to indicate this is possible, in which case I could use under-table switch machines to power the turnouts.

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,481 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Sunday, May 8, 2011 3:46 PM

I suggest going out and buying one Tortoise slow-motion machine and one Atlas surface-mount machine.  You will need to go to the hardware store and get some "music wire," because the metal wire that comes with the Tortoise isn't long enough.  Install that one Tortoise and the Atlas machine and compare them.  If the Tortoise doesn't give you an immediate "wow factor," they you can stick with Atlas, but I'm guessing you'll really like the Tortoise enough to pay the extra price.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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