Howdy,
I've been experimenting with forming splines made out of white pine. For planning purposes I've been using Masonite splines which are pretty flexible. On a whim recently I sliced up a white pine 1x3 to 1/4 inch thickness on the table saw and I liked it's strength and whatnot, and it seems to have just the right amount of vertical "flex".
So to test it out I went to bend it in a curve somewhere around a 36 inch radius. I could feel it just starting to give at that radius so I put some hot water with a little bit of dish soap in a spray bottle and wet it down and let it soak in for a few minutes. Then it became really pliable and was able to flex all the way down to the required radius with no issue. (It probably would have gone even tighter too. From what I've read, people have had success all the way down to 20 inches or better, but that's not my issue).
The thing I'm having trouble with is getting "good" curves. With the Masonite everything flows very smoothly, all I need to do is bend it to the proper radius and it (generally / usually) forms a nice, smooth, flowing curve. With the white pine splines the curves are not as smooth-- for lack of a better description, they are "misshapen" and "lumpy". They are not the nice and smooth flowing curves like I get with the Masonite splines.
Several thoughts come to mind as I consider the issue-- the first being that the white pine splines are a bit thicker than the Masonite splines I've been using, nearly twice as thick. The Masonite splines are in the 1/8 inch range (some a little thinner, some a little thicker-- I've found a lack of consistency in dimension there, but not a big deal overall). Another is that the white pine, not being a "manufactured" product, is going to have natural variations in it's grain-- knots, etc., that are going to affect it's bending and curving ability.
So how to deal with it? One thought I've had is to pre-form the curves, as it's really only the full turn-back curves that are going to have this problem, and I only have a few of those. But as I try and think of something to use as a "former" guide, I draw a blank-- what's available that's 36 inches in radius (more or less) that's sturdy enough I can form a spline around it and clamp it while it dries? And is that really necessary? Or is my experience an anomaly? I've only tried a few of the white pine splines thus far...
Another thing I've been giving a lot of thought too is making a couple of one or two turn helices to go down into staging under the layout. I hadn't really thought of using splines before but it seems like it could be a nice way to go. Anybody ever try making a helix out of splines?
John
Remember old mrr mag. article, way back, in which really choice pine was chosen for this. It had no knots, was straight-grained, as the author was adamant about this being the only way it would work successfully. And, he built home-made steamer from large diameter pipe [ possibly 6 inch DWV plastic ] in which he'd put long pine strips, shove plastic end cap on, steam [ via hose/valve threaded into cap end ] for desired interval, and bend/clamp aroung forms of varying radii he'd built. Then, when wood was dry, t'was assembled into curved spline sections w/glue and clamped, staggering all spline joints for strength. It would be cut to desired length sections afterward and added onto his layout r-o-w. Hope this may help a bit. TTFN.....papasmurf
Several years ago when I was looking for a way to put a permanent bend into some pine boards, I was advised to use a large diameter PVC pipe filled with ammonia to soak the wood for a week or more, then remove the boards and clamp them into the desired position and allow to dry for another two weeks until the ammonia had completely evaporated; and it worked.
Needless to say, all of this had to be accomplished outdoors.
IIRC, the person who provided this advice said that's how barrel staves are formed.
cacole Several years ago when I was looking for a way to put a permanent bend into some pine boards, I was advised to use a large diameter PVC pipe filled with ammonia to soak the wood for a week or more, then remove the boards and clamp them into the desired position and allow to dry for another two weeks until the ammonia had completely evaporated; and it worked. Needless to say, all of this had to be accomplished outdoors. IIRC, the person who provided this advice said that's how barrel staves are formed.
That sounds like it'd be a good technique to try out when you're staying over at a friend's house...
:-)
Thanks for the info.
Back in the 1960s when the Bobby Hull of the Chicago Blackhawks came up with a curved Hockey stick we all had to have one. Of course Hockey sticks were still made out of wood back then. So much to our parents shagrin we soaked our expensive blades in a bucket of hot water overnight, put them in the vice over the next night and showed up at the rink with our Bobby Hull specials. They stayed curved, the method worked. But for some reason the hundred mile an hour slap shot didn't come with the curved stick.
I think the process of soaking pine splines in a PVC tube is a good one if bending is required. However this would only ad to any warping issues down the road. Also ad to the expense and in the end may create other unforeseen problems. With a 4' x 8' sheet of Masonite at $7.00 why mess around with pine.
The natural transitions that you get from Masonite are stunning. When you look at track running its course on spline vs: cookie cutter or track on foam or plywood you look at it and go Wow! Yet you cannot explain why it looks so much better. In the pic below I have the lower track on foam. Even though it is hard to tell from this pic, the spline track looks way better. I wished I had used spline on the lower track as well and only put the track on the foam in yard situations. Something for the next layout.
John, if you look at the photo below you can see a nail in the riser. This is the centre of the curve where the middle spline goes. I just curved the first spline around the nail and after I glued the second one on, removed the nail and glued the centre spline in. Once the second spline is glued to the first one it stays in a rock solid curve. I don't see why pine would not behave the same way.
I cannot say enough good things about spline. I think a helix would be easy and cheap using spline. Even though I would support it as many do with those long threaded rods. Once constructed it would support itself looking like a giant spring. Just my
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
BATMAN John, if you look at the photo below you can see a nail in the riser. This is the centre of the curve where the middle spline goes. I just curved the first spline around the nail and after I glued the second one on, removed the nail and glued the centre spline in. Once the second spline is glued to the first one it stays in a rock solid curve. I don't see why pine would not behave the same way. Brent
Brent, I noticed that you didn't use cork roadbed on the track laid on the spline, but did use it on the track laid on the foam. What's the noise level like on the upper track? Just curious.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Medina1128 BATMAN: Brent, I noticed that you didn't use cork roadbed on the track laid on the spline, but did use it on the track laid on the foam. What's the noise level like on the upper track? Just curious.
BATMAN:
It is pretty quiet actually. In the picture below you can see a span of about four feet with no risers. This is where I will cut out the spline (in 2025) to put in my big steel bridge I am planning on scratch building. The canyon will go to the floor.
When the train crosses this expanse it is virtually silent other than the wheels rolling on the track. I think if you used rubber washers or pieces of old inner tube between the risers and the grid benchwork it would be incredibly quiet the whole length. Something else to remember for the next layout.
On another note, the long span with no support is rock solid. You can really push down on it and there is no flex at all. I was a little concerned when I put it in that I would need temporary supports for it but they were definitely not required.
BATMAN John, if you look at the photo below you can see a nail in the riser. This is the centre of the curve where the middle spline goes. I just curved the first spline around the nail and after I glued the second one on, removed the nail and glued the centre spline in. Once the second spline is glued to the first one it stays in a rock solid curve. I don't see why pine would not behave the same way. I cannot say enough good things about spline. I think a helix would be easy and cheap using spline. Even though I would support it as many do with those long threaded rods. Once constructed it would support itself looking like a giant spring. Just my Brent
Brent,
Cutting the pine splines was way easier than doing the masonite splines. And I just got through cutting a bunch more just now. I went up to home depot and got more pine boards. This time I looked through them all and picked out the ones that were the absolute cleanest with no knots or bad grain. My Dad came over and he and I ripped them on the table saw with hardly any effort. I remember the near-nightmare day I had cutting the masonite splines, and I remember thinking it wasn't too bad but I wouldn't want to have to cut any more any time soon. The pine splines on the other hand, were super easy and took no time at all.
The trouble I had in my experiments the other day is that the pine isn't as supple as the masonite so it curved unevenly. If I'd had something of the right shape to pre-form the curve, I wouldn't have had any issues at all. And of course once the first piece is in place, curve correctly and set, all the others will clamp against it and I presume take it's shape well enough. It's just getting the starter pieces going I guess. And also I doubt I'll have any troubles on the straighter sections and the gentler curves. It's just these turnback curves I reckon that are the big pain.
Was hoping someone had a thought about what to use for a former.
Thanks for the input!
If you have a piece of heavier plywood draw your curve on it and pound some nails or use screws along the line and bend the wood around the nails. If you need the wood to bend easier could you cut a thinner piece of spline to use as a starter or try nicking it along the back every inch or so.
If it behaves like Masonite you should be able to move it to the layout once two pieces are glued together and continue to ad splines there. I hope I have grasped what you are trying to accomplish.
I have always like the idea of spline roadbed, and Masonite is the way to go - It curve 'perfect'. The 'problem' is when mounting switch machines one has to deal with the depth of the spline(2" in my case). This problem also rears it ugly head with 2" foam layouts. I had to do some 'engineering' and wound up making offset mounts for my Tortoise motors.
I have both spline and 1/2" plwood sub-roadbed - after scenery, I really cannot tell the difference anymore - But the splines sure looked 'cool' when it was just benchwork/track. A friend used 1/8" Masonite with 3/8" pine spacers every 12"(they are 3-4" long and were cut from pine parting stock he bought at the local home improvement store. He has 4 layers of 1/8" Masonite, with 3 'spacers' in between. This gives him 1 5/8" subroadbed that he lays Homabed roadbed on top of. He hand lays his track and allows a 'notch' on the two inner sections for mounting his Tortoise motors. A lot of work and pre-planning - But it does look & run good.
As far as using it for a 'helix' - there would be a grade problem as the extreme thickness of the splines would make for a heavy grade, and one would need to have some kind of extended support for the treaded rods to go through. I think doubled up plywood is still the way to go there.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
BATMAN John If you have a piece of heavier plywood draw your curve on it and pound some nails or use screws along the line and bend the wood around the nails. If you need the wood to bend easier could you cut a thinner piece of spline to use as a starter or try nicking it along the back every inch or so. If it behaves like Masonite you should be able to move it to the layout once two pieces are glued together and continue to ad splines there. I hope I have grasped what you are trying to accomplish. Brent
Yes, that's what I'm needing to do. That's a good suggestion, I'll give it a try. I agree that once the first round gets set the rest will probably go just fine. Thanks for your help!
jrbernier I have always like the idea of spline roadbed, and Masonite is the way to go - It curve 'perfect'. The 'problem' is when mounting switch machines one has to deal with the depth of the spline(2" in my case). This problem also rears it ugly head with 2" foam layouts. I had to do some 'engineering' and wound up making offset mounts for my Tortoise motors. I have both spline and 1/2" plwood sub-roadbed - after scenery, I really cannot tell the difference anymore - But the splines sure looked 'cool' when it was just benchwork/track. A friend used 1/8" Masonite with 3/8" pine spacers every 12"(they are 3-4" long and were cut from pine parting stock he bought at the local home improvement store. He has 4 layers of 1/8" Masonite, with 3 'spacers' in between. This gives him 1 5/8" subroadbed that he lays Homabed roadbed on top of. He hand lays his track and allows a 'notch' on the two inner sections for mounting his Tortoise motors. A lot of work and pre-planning - But it does look & run good. As far as using it for a 'helix' - there would be a grade problem as the extreme thickness of the splines would make for a heavy grade, and one would need to have some kind of extended support for the treaded rods to go through. I think doubled up plywood is still the way to go there. Jim
2 inches !?!? That's pretty thick! You could probably drive a real train on that! :-)
I cut a bunch of masonite spine strips a couple of year ago and I've been using them ever since to help in planning & mocking up track plan ideas-- which, I must say, they do wonderfully. A really good way to see "for real" and in 3D what something is likely to look like without spending a lot of time or money. Some "stock" lumbers, some L-Girders, and a bunch of clamps makes it easy to try / test stuff out before committing to it (and also helps procrastinators feel like they're doing something productive... :-)
All my splines are 3/4 inches tall. The pine splines are 1/4 inch thick and the masonite strips vary a bit around 1/8th inch thick. The big reason I wanted to switch to pine is for consistency in the height of the splines. I did a reasonable job cutting the splines, but there's still some variation in heights. It's not terrible, but enough that I would want to sand it down real good before laying track on it. And the more I thought about it the less I liked the idea of sanding all that masonite down in the basement layout area. When I cut the stuff it was out in the garage, and it was months before I got all the masonite dust out of there!
So on a whim I decided to try cutting up a 1x3 into strips to see how well that would work. As I posted earlier, it was super easy and the strips have very even dimensions, particularly in height. I'm going to experiment some more and if I can work out forming the curves then I think I like the pine spline method. Plus its real wood and will take a nail or screw pretty good, if I need it to. Not sure that's all that meaningful a difference... I'm sure glue would work just as well either case anyway.
I sure like what it looks like though-- seems like a reasonable way to build a railroad.
I have absolutely no experience with spline of any material; however, it occurs to me that if you want a wood spline, rather than expending the effort of cutting larger dimension lumber, why not buy lattice stock which tends to be available in 3/16" thickness IIRC? Also-at higher cost-you can buy PVC lattice stock-very flexible.
Dante
I have looked at those and found lattice stock snapped easily and had way too many knots and other flaws in it and was generally crap wood that would be frustrating at best to use. I have messed around a bit with PVC molding that was 1/8" x 1" x 8' but found it didn't transition vertically very well. Also using PVC glue didn't appeal to me that much.
Masonite splines are dirt cheap compared to PVC. You can do 48' of roadbed for $7.00 and no cork is required as the track goes right on the spline. The two outside splines can be cut with a bevel to simulate the shoulder of the roadbed. Masonite splines were easily smoothed with a rasp which I also used to quickly ad some super elevation to them. I would think PVC would be difficult to shape and level.
Masonite splines and a glue gun made for an enjoyable build.
jwhitten Howdy, I've been experimenting with forming splines made out of white pine. For planning purposes I've been using Masonite splines which are pretty flexible. On a whim recently I sliced up a white pine 1x3 to 1/4 inch thickness on the table saw and I liked it's strength and whatnot, and it seems to have just the right amount of vertical "flex". So to test it out I went to bend it in a curve somewhere around a 36 inch radius. I could feel it just starting to give at that radius so I put some hot water with a little bit of dish soap in a spray bottle and wet it down and let it soak in for a few minutes. Then it became really pliable and was able to flex all the way down to the required radius with no issue. (It probably would have gone even tighter too. From what I've read, people have had success all the way down to 20 inches or better, but that's not my issue). The thing I'm having trouble with is getting "good" curves. With the Masonite everything flows very smoothly, all I need to do is bend it to the proper radius and it (generally / usually) forms a nice, smooth, flowing curve. With the white pine splines the curves are not as smooth-- for lack of a better description, they are "misshapen" and "lumpy". They are not the nice and smooth flowing curves like I get with the Masonite splines. Several thoughts come to mind as I consider the issue-- the first being that the white pine splines are a bit thicker than the Masonite splines I've been using, nearly twice as thick. The Masonite splines are in the 1/8 inch range (some a little thinner, some a little thicker-- I've found a lack of consistency in dimension there, but not a big deal overall). Another is that the white pine, not being a "manufactured" product, is going to have natural variations in it's grain-- knots, etc., that are going to affect it's bending and curving ability. So how to deal with it? One thought I've had is to pre-form the curves, as it's really only the full turn-back curves that are going to have this problem, and I only have a few of those. But as I try and think of something to use as a "former" guide, I draw a blank-- what's available that's 36 inches in radius (more or less) that's sturdy enough I can form a spline around it and clamp it while it dries? And is that really necessary? Or is my experience an anomaly? I've only tried a few of the white pine splines thus far... Another thing I've been giving a lot of thought too is making a couple of one or two turn helices to go down into staging under the layout. I hadn't really thought of using splines before but it seems like it could be a nice way to go. Anybody ever try making a helix out of splines? John
John, The white pine should easily curve down to 36". Yes, when wetted down will bend somewaht easier, however, just spraying the spline will only wet the surface and penetration will be irregular. This is why you experience that uneven/ "lumpy" bending for the curve. I am assuming that you are starting w/ the right "clear" pine. We do quite a bit of Spline at the club. I notice that even rippings from the same selected piece can bend to varying degrees. This is of coarse due to "varying " graining. When selecting clear pine, look for that straight, uniform (vertical) grain. If the piece of pine is very old or had been sitting for some time it can dry out to a very low moisture content and can become more "brittle" and won't bend that well. We will even pick a few select pieces to use for that "bending" stick to layout easements into the radiuses. As you noticed, they all don't bend that smoothly.
Others mention laying out the radius and place finish nails to aid in bending the curve. Once the center spline is layed to your liking, drill a clearance hole and trap a finish nail into the riser. Some irregularities will straighten out as successive pieces of the spline are glued/ clamped to the center. You should space the added splines w/ 1" cutoffs of the spline about every 6-8". You can also play w/ the block spacing and position to help w/ the uniformity of the added pieces of spline. You don't have to have the spline subroadbed absolutey perfect as the roadbed and track centerlines can be adjusted somewhat .
Here, you can even see the kerfed 1/4" pine roadbed on the pine spline. Any roadbed can be used, we like the pine as it holds spikes, and wood ties will glue down quite well for handlaid.
Notice that we do a mix of spline and cookie cutter (3/4") ply
Spline, whether masonite or pine, produces an extremely stable subroadbed. It is a lot of work and you will need at least 15-20 clamps to do a decent stretch at a session.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
bogp40 jwhitten: Howdy, I've been experimenting with forming splines made out of white pine. For planning purposes I've been using Masonite splines which are pretty flexible. On a whim recently I sliced up a white pine 1x3 to 1/4 inch thickness on the table saw and I liked it's strength and whatnot, and it seems to have just the right amount of vertical "flex". So to test it out I went to bend it in a curve somewhere around a 36 inch radius. I could feel it just starting to give at that radius so I put some hot water with a little bit of dish soap in a spray bottle and wet it down and let it soak in for a few minutes. Then it became really pliable and was able to flex all the way down to the required radius with no issue. (It probably would have gone even tighter too. From what I've read, people have had success all the way down to 20 inches or better, but that's not my issue). The thing I'm having trouble with is getting "good" curves. With the Masonite everything flows very smoothly, all I need to do is bend it to the proper radius and it (generally / usually) forms a nice, smooth, flowing curve. With the white pine splines the curves are not as smooth-- for lack of a better description, they are "misshapen" and "lumpy". They are not the nice and smooth flowing curves like I get with the Masonite splines. Several thoughts come to mind as I consider the issue-- the first being that the white pine splines are a bit thicker than the Masonite splines I've been using, nearly twice as thick. The Masonite splines are in the 1/8 inch range (some a little thinner, some a little thicker-- I've found a lack of consistency in dimension there, but not a big deal overall). Another is that the white pine, not being a "manufactured" product, is going to have natural variations in it's grain-- knots, etc., that are going to affect it's bending and curving ability. So how to deal with it? One thought I've had is to pre-form the curves, as it's really only the full turn-back curves that are going to have this problem, and I only have a few of those. But as I try and think of something to use as a "former" guide, I draw a blank-- what's available that's 36 inches in radius (more or less) that's sturdy enough I can form a spline around it and clamp it while it dries? And is that really necessary? Or is my experience an anomaly? I've only tried a few of the white pine splines thus far... Another thing I've been giving a lot of thought too is making a couple of one or two turn helices to go down into staging under the layout. I hadn't really thought of using splines before but it seems like it could be a nice way to go. Anybody ever try making a helix out of splines? John John, The white pine should easily curve down to 36". Yes, when wetted down will bend somewaht easier, however, just spraying the spline will only wet the surface and penetration will be irregular. This is why you experience that uneven/ "lumpy" bending for the curve. I am assuming that you are starting w/ the right "clear" pine. We do quite a bit of Spline at the club. I notice that even rippings from the same selected piece can bend to varying degrees. This is of coarse due to "varying " graining. When selecting clear pine, look for that straight, uniform (vertical) grain. If the piece of pine is very old or had been sitting for some time it can dry out to a very low moisture content and can become more "brittle" and won't bend that well. We will even pick a few select pieces to use for that "bending" stick to layout easements into the radiuses. As you noticed, they all don't bend that smoothly. Others mention laying out the radius and place finish nails to aid in bending the curve. Once the center spline is layed to your liking, drill a clearance hole and trap a finish nail into the riser. Some irregularities will straighten out as successive pieces of the spline are glued/ clamped to the center. You should space the added splines w/ 1" cutoffs of the spline about every 6-8". You can also play w/ the block spacing and position to help w/ the uniformity of the added pieces of spline. You don't have to have the spline subroadbed absolutey perfect as the roadbed and track centerlines can be adjusted somewhat . Here, you can even see the kerfed 1/4" pine roadbed on the pine spline. Any roadbed can be used, we like the pine as it holds spikes, and wood ties will glue down quite well for handlaid. Notice that we do a mix of spline and cookie cutter (3/4") ply Spline, whether masonite or pine, produces an extremely stable subroadbed. It is a lot of work and you will need at least 15-20 clamps to do a decent stretch at a session.
jwhitten: Howdy, I've been experimenting with forming splines made out of white pine. For planning purposes I've been using Masonite splines which are pretty flexible. On a whim recently I sliced up a white pine 1x3 to 1/4 inch thickness on the table saw and I liked it's strength and whatnot, and it seems to have just the right amount of vertical "flex". So to test it out I went to bend it in a curve somewhere around a 36 inch radius. I could feel it just starting to give at that radius so I put some hot water with a little bit of dish soap in a spray bottle and wet it down and let it soak in for a few minutes. Then it became really pliable and was able to flex all the way down to the required radius with no issue. (It probably would have gone even tighter too. From what I've read, people have had success all the way down to 20 inches or better, but that's not my issue). The thing I'm having trouble with is getting "good" curves. With the Masonite everything flows very smoothly, all I need to do is bend it to the proper radius and it (generally / usually) forms a nice, smooth, flowing curve. With the white pine splines the curves are not as smooth-- for lack of a better description, they are "misshapen" and "lumpy". They are not the nice and smooth flowing curves like I get with the Masonite splines. Several thoughts come to mind as I consider the issue-- the first being that the white pine splines are a bit thicker than the Masonite splines I've been using, nearly twice as thick. The Masonite splines are in the 1/8 inch range (some a little thinner, some a little thicker-- I've found a lack of consistency in dimension there, but not a big deal overall). Another is that the white pine, not being a "manufactured" product, is going to have natural variations in it's grain-- knots, etc., that are going to affect it's bending and curving ability. So how to deal with it? One thought I've had is to pre-form the curves, as it's really only the full turn-back curves that are going to have this problem, and I only have a few of those. But as I try and think of something to use as a "former" guide, I draw a blank-- what's available that's 36 inches in radius (more or less) that's sturdy enough I can form a spline around it and clamp it while it dries? And is that really necessary? Or is my experience an anomaly? I've only tried a few of the white pine splines thus far... Another thing I've been giving a lot of thought too is making a couple of one or two turn helices to go down into staging under the layout. I hadn't really thought of using splines before but it seems like it could be a nice way to go. Anybody ever try making a helix out of splines? John
WOW! Thanks for all the great pictures! That's really helpful, when it comes to building stuff I'm more of a visual thinker so seeing all that really makes sense.
Clamps I have aplenty. I realized early on that clamps are my friends and I'll never have too many of them. So every time I go to a hardware store, or buy something from Harbor Freight online, I pad the order with as many clamps of various varieties as I can stand (read: afford :-) I especially like their 4-inch C-clamps, and their 6 and 12 inch bar clamps. They're cheap (unfortunately in both senses of the word!) and really handy. I've broken one of the Harbor Freight C-clamps from over-tightening and have come close to breaking a couple of others (but the experience with the one has helped me to judge their breaking point). I've had no issues at all with the bar clamps however, and frankly they're a *LOT* nicer than the orange ones you get at Home Depot for twice the price!
I also have a zillion spring clamps. They sell 'em at Home Depot for a buck each so whenever I go in there and have an extra $10 or $20 bucks I load up on 'em. I've got 40 or 50 or so of them at this point. Also, in case anybody's wondering, the GREEN ones clamp tighter than the BLUE ones, and BOTH are useful! I also have a bunch of the little green and blue clamps-- same thing there-- the green ones seem to clamp tighter than the blue ones, but the difference isn't as pronounced as the larger sized ones.
Other clamps that I find useful are the white plastic "clothes-pin substitutes" that some grocery stores carry 20 for a couple of bucks. They open wider than a typical clothes pin and have a pretty good holding ability. I wish I had more of those. I need to get some more. They're really handy. And of course I have about a zillion actual clothes pins also. You can get big packs of a couple hundred for a few dollars at almost any grocery or hardware store (except probably Home Depot-- can't recall ever seeing them in there..?) And clothes pins come in handy for all sorts of stuff-- except not for holding splines. I *do* use them while I'm planning / mocking up though, I can put a drywall screw into a joist and use a clothes pin to hold it pretty good. There's a "sweet spot" for how much to sink the screw and when you hit it, the clothes pin will slide right around the screw head (the little round indentation in the clothes pin) and hold the spine very nicely against it. I use it for setting splines for parallel tracks. It's really handy / easy for that.
bogp40 The white pine should easily curve down to 36". Yes, when wetted down will bend somewaht easier, however, just spraying the spline will only wet the surface and penetration will be irregular. This is why you experience that uneven/ "lumpy" bending for the curve. I am assuming that you are starting w/ the right "clear" pine.
The white pine should easily curve down to 36". Yes, when wetted down will bend somewaht easier, however, just spraying the spline will only wet the surface and penetration will be irregular. This is why you experience that uneven/ "lumpy" bending for the curve. I am assuming that you are starting w/ the right "clear" pine.
That's why I was using the hot "wet water", I spray it on there and let it soak in for a bit. But based on what I've been reading in this thread, that's probably not enough for good penetration, considering "the industry" (and common convention) seems to be to let the wood soak for weeks-- and in ammonia no less (Yikes! And to think my wife hates my trains now... :-)
I really appreciate all the input you and everyone else has been giving me. When I first posted I'd only experimented a little with the white pine splines and they seem to be a good way to go, but I hadn't really thought it all through about forming the curves and whatnot. I realize that my biggest issue is getting the "first" one to go right, and then probably the others will conform okay to that one.
What I might do (musing out loud) is use the masonite splines I already have and have been "planning" with to establish the center lines, and then come along with the white pine splines and flesh out the roadbed to either side. That would give me something already curved to clamp to, and it might solve the former problem. Of course that implies it's already supported well enough that it won't deform to the shape of the white pine splines which would kinda defeat the purpose...
The one downside I can see to using splines is that it's harder to transition to using pink foam for larger, broader areas-- at least it seems like it would be. You can shape plywood to make it easy to connect the splines and get a good solid joint. Whereas pink foam is... well, pink foam, and it doesn't have the same structural ability. But it *is* nice for playing around with track plan ideas for areas you haven't quite figured out or decided-upon yet... It would be nice if there was a way to combine the two mediums-- but I think at 3/4 inches, there isn't enough height to really make it work effectively-- though I'd be happy to hear what other people think who might have tried it....??
Thanks!
John,
Why spline and beyond that why pine spline???
Once the scenery is in, you will have a hard time telling the difference between good spline and good cookie cutter techniques. The main reason cited for spline (especially clear pine) is to get a good base for hand laying track. Smooth flowing track work and all the attendant gullies etc can be had with a variety of methods.
Typically, clear pine is used for its superior spike holding capabilities for hand laying track. Are you going to be hand laying your track?? In my area the cost of knot free pine would make a layout of any size a rather expensive undertaking when compared to other methods, is the cost and hassle worth it if you aren't hand laying track? There is also the homasote alternative for a good hand laying base. Each camp has its adherents, both have good and not so good aspects.
OK if you aren't hand laying, but still like spline - how about buying a batch of masonite and paying to have it accurately cut (ala Fugate, he has lots of info on this technique) ? Much easier than soaking wood, etc, but no good for spiking unless topped with another material.
Everyone makes their own choices according to their own needs, likes etc, Just some questions for you to think about...
There is some very nice road bed work in this thread. Congrats to you guys.....
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
jwhitten The one downside I can see to using splines is that it's harder to transition to using pink foam for larger, broader areas-- at least it seems like it would be. You can shape plywood to make it easy to connect the splines and get a good solid joint. Whereas pink foam is... well, pink foam, and it doesn't have the same structural ability. But it *is* nice for playing around with track plan ideas for areas you haven't quite figured out or decided-upon yet... It would be nice if there was a way to combine the two mediums-- but I think at 3/4 inches, there isn't enough height to really make it work effectively-- though I'd be happy to hear what other people think who might have tried it....?? Thanks! John
The structural strength of the transition point is connecting the foam and spline to the grid or plywood benchwork underneath it. They butt up against each other but the only mechanical connection is a bit of Dap or Caulk to fill the crack.
Make sure when you butt it up you remember to allow for the cork roadbed on top of the foam that will meet your beveled spline seamlessly.
Here the spline goes right into the foam, no cork as it is a siding right on the foam. The spline is attached to the grid underneath. The track and spline in behind does not go as far down in to the foam as it is the mainline and butts up against cork roadbed.
This is a double wide section of spline. Track still needs painting and ballasting. The foam for the mountains caulked to the side of the spline and is very secure. The rolling part is cardboard weave attached to the spline with a glue gun and goo dipped cotton sheet.
John Fugate made his splines 7/8" high if I remember correctly. I made mine 1", just so doing all that math for the risers and such would be easier for my tiny brain to compute.