Dodged a bullet, or why I like caulk as an adhesive

[rrinker]

 So I installed on of the last sections to track to close the loop on my layout. Only problem is, even with some shims in place for superelevation, it ended up with a bit of a vertical curve. Guess my floor isn't even close to level. Ran a train with some typical cars and one of my diesels, no problem. Then the test meachine - one of my T-1 Northerns. Ooops, definitely too much vertical curve, it derailed even at creepy speed.

 SO I pondered. Tear it all out and do it over, or find a way to fix it. I decided to try fixing it first. Out came the putty knife, slipped under the track, and I slipped in some pieces of styrene cut to size to jack up the track. After a few pieces of .060 I went down to .040 then .030 which was at the same lift as the superelevation. Pulled the T-1 back into place - no problem at slow speed. Backed up and tried again, just faster - still good. Last shot, full throttle, ludicrous speed - the loco turned plaid but it made it without derailing. The I accidently backed it through the yard ladder, all Atlas #4, at ludicrous speed - and it had no problem with that, either. Even though I didn;t intend to perform that torture test at this time. So I am back to solid trackwork where a large steam loco can handle it all at speeds far in excess to what it should ever run.

                                                                   --Randy

 

[Motley]

It's always fixable right? I must be the master at shimming track, due to my poor benchwork skills. I've done this all over my layout. But I think of it this way, the real ground isn't perfectly level, so why should my layout be? LOL

[Allegheny2-6-6-6]

Glad to hear you've worked out your track problems, what you just described is one of the benefits of using latex adhesive caulk, i loved reading the posts form the nay sayers about how once it's down it's down for good and you'll destroy the track is you try and pry it up HORSE HOCKEY! to quote Col. Sherman T. Potter. I personally feel it's one of the most innovated things to come along in  the hobby in quite a while..

That being said I am always looking for a better or new idea in model railroading and track laying is no exception. I fabbed up a little test car one night from a  cross check level i picked up in Lowes and an old flat car. pictured below I glues it to the deck of the flat car with what else latex adhesive caulk. I have gotten into the practice of spiking down my track first for testing purposes before I glue it down permanently After the section of track is in position I will take my test car and just roll it over the new section to check and see if everything is level, unless that is I am working on a super elevated curve. My first test is always the old eye ball test if it looks good it usually is but just for ha ha's i run the test car over it anyway just for piece of mind.

 

[doctorwayne]

While I don't use latex caulk for laying track, it seems reasonable that you could pull it up as described.  I nail mine in place and it's equally easy to pull up for required adjustments and possibly even a little less-messy.  I also recently re-arranged some track that was in place and ballasted for several years - a good soaking with "wet" water, and some judicious work with a scraper and, after pulling the spikes, it was easy.

Here's the "before":

 

...and the "after":

 

Wayne

[rrinker]

 WHat I actually need to do is copy this to the Layout Construction group on Yahoo, as there were a couple of posts recently saying they would never ever consider caulk as it is too messy and can;t be easily fixed if you make a mistake. Clearly they are in the "it should ooze up around the ties" crowd - if it does that, you are using WAY too much and yes, it may be hard to clean off and reuse track. I think most would be amazed at how little I actually use for the track. Second layout doing this and I still have to restrain myself from goign back and adding more when I KNOW it's plenty - and every time I worry that maybe I stretched it a little TOO thin, I'm proved wrong when I go back and pull the temporary pins and the track is solidly fixed in place.

 I still say this is the easiest and quickest way to get track down, yet it allows for changes or fixing things. And an added benefit for beginners - a common beginner mistake when nailign track it drving the nails in too hard, slightly bending the ties and narrowing the gauge of the rails. Or for those who aren't particularly accurate with the hammer (you may think, no one's THAT bad - oh yeah?) , hitting the rails instead of the nail. No impact, no hammering, and a good 15-20 minutes to walk all around and make sure everything is lined up before you might need to break out the putty knife to adjust things.

                                         --Randy

[CraigN]

I am with you Randy. I love using cheap latex caulk for laying down track and cork roadbed.

 

Warning: I read a few years back to use latex caulk adhesive for doing this same thing. Latex Caulk adhesive is not the same as latex caulk. The adhesive sticks better and is harder to remove. I ruined some track while making changes to my railroad

 

Lesson learned.

 

Craig

[doctorwayne]

The key to easy removal is using the proper material and not too much of it.  You need only read through some threads here to see that many folks, for whatever reasons, use the wrong adhesive, wrong tool, or wrong method to accomplish various tasks.  Some of them, of course, work, but usually with drawbacks that become apparent only later, either when changes need to be made or when something falls apart or malfunctions.

The "putting the track nails in too far" mistake is a common one, and it's often overlooked as the cause when derailments occur.  However, rather than hammering those nails in place, I find that you have much more control if they're gripped with suitable pliers and pushed into place - they can still go in too far, but, in that case, the tool to correct the problem is right in your hand.

 

Wayne

 

[Hamltnblue]

It's usually easier to adjust the benchwork rather than the track, but whatever works is good.

[rrinker]

 Yeah except the high side was already down as far as it could go. And raising the low side would just shift the offset to another joint.

                 --Randy

 

[csxns]

Wil i have any problems if i nail the cork and track down without using caulk.

[selector]

Not if the nails are only driven in as far as flush or snug, and not so hard that they dimple or kink what their heads are driven to.  It is okay with the cork, probably, but you have to avoid bending the ties or you pull the rails toward each other.  You may get away with that on tangent track, but it could spell trouble on a curve.

Of course, this all presupposes that the roadbed is on a solid footing, that the roadbed is on a level plane, doesn't allow the tracks to wobble or undulate....

There are quite few things to go wrong with laying good track, and misuse of nails is only one.   Curves that are too tight, rail ends that don't meet so well on tight curves that the flanges can't help but pick them and derail.  The cure is to bevel the top surfaces and the flange faces at the ends of rails, but especially so on tight curves.  Undulations, superelevations, S-curves....they can all lead to bad performance.

Crandell

[doctorwayne]

csxns

Wil i have any problems if i nail the cork and track down without using caulk.

I used carpenter's glue to affix the cork to my 3/4 plywood subroadbed, but in many places, especially curves, tacked it in place with 2 1/2" nails (I had a 50lb. box of them on hand).  The nails were driven only far enough to grip the plywood, holding the cork in place until the glue dried.  The nails were then removed.  If you're laying cork on foam, the latex caulk is the way to go.  After the cork has been secured, sand any high spots or irregular edges before laying track.

I used Atlas track spikes to hold the track in place and left them in place even after ballasting - the ballast will hold the track securely, though, and the spikes may be removed if you wish.

 

Wayne

[csxns]

Thanks.did not think about the nails bending the ties.Went back to the layout and found a few nails bending the ties but so far not out of guage but i pulled them back anyway.

[selector]

Russell, if/once you are ballasted, the nails are superfluous.  You can remove the nails with impunity if you'd rather not have them present.  It is one of the 'fringe' benefits of ballasting: aside from looking more realistic, the hardened ballast does a super job keeping the bent flex in place.

Crandell

[OK LANDING]

I'm a real fan of latex caulk for installing cork roadbed and flextrack. Just one of many ideas I've used from this forum. I use DAP Alex plus, about 2 bucks a tube, applied with an artists trowel-shaped metal pallette knife. Using latex caulk has sped up my track laying considerably over my old spike method. I find the track to be easier to keep aligned as well.

Recently, I had to take up a few feet of track because of a change of plan, and using the pallette knife, had the track up in a few minutes, with no damage at all. I think the key to using this stuff, is to keep the application to a thin film, not much thicker than a coat of paint. Even with a thin coat, once it's down, it's down for good...unless you need to take it up later.

Errol

   

[Pruitt]

Hm. I'm in the process of dismantling my layout for a move, and the track I put down with the DAP Alex Plus caulk tore apart before it came up. I gave up, and the caulk-laid track is going out with the plywood. Fortunately there wasn't too much I'd done that way.

I didn't put down a layer of caulk so thick it ozzed up between the ties, but I could not get the track off the cork. I could slice through the cork horizontally, but that was it.

So I'm one of the "stick with spikes or track nails" bunch again, I'm afraid.

[ClinchValleySD40]

Sorry to hear of your problems Mark.   The layer of Alex caulk needs to be paper thin.   It will hold just fine and real easy to pull up the track.   Try it again sometime on a test section.