Hello fellow model railroaders... The only space I have to set up a layout is in my garage which is unairconditioned. I was curious if anyone has ever done this before and has hindsight advice that might be helpful. My areas of concern are humidity - in the summer at the most humid point it might get up into the mid to uppper 80% humidty (I have a digital gauge out there that measures it). Obviously I would keep the locomotives inside. The 3.5x10 layout will incoorporate foam to make hills - is that a bad idea given the layouts location? What about electric from track leaders and building lights - anything to worry about there? Thanks for the help.
MANY a layout, including mine are in the garage. Many are not with AC. Many folks get a window AC unit for the garage and are fine. Graigs list a good place to look for a used one. Here is a good read for garage layouts for you
http://www.layoutvision.com/id42.html
ratled
Modeling the Klamath River area in HO on a proto-lanced sub of the SP “The State of Jefferson Line”
Our 40 year old club layout is inside a 105 year old baggage car with no A/C and heated only when some one is there. The best advise I can give you is to paint every piece of wood you use for your bench work. This will limit but not eliminate the expansion and contraction of the wood in the humidity swings. Also solder every other rail joiner and leave a small gap in the others. Other than that you should be good.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
I agree with Pete. leave gaps for the rails to expand into when hot. The summers here in my part of northern Ca, can be from 98 to 105. Even a day or so of 110. The first year after I installed track I was OK. Then a summer with days of 105 to 109 came along and, big time track warping. Over the last half of 2010 I have had to replace around 15 feet of bent warped track and cut gaps for expansion. Next summer will tell how successful I am.
Ken G Price My N-Scale Layout
Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR
N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.
Hi!
I've lived down here in the Houston area, and the humidity problems are comparable to your neck of the woods. IMHO, you are asking for a lot of difficulty, frustration, and heartache building a layout in an area of high humidity without climate control. Between the benchwork expanding/contracting with the seasons, rails warping, electronic parts getting contaminated, and anything ferrous rusting, it is a difficult situation at best.
I would urge you to block off a portion of the garage with a 2x4 framed/insulated wall, and at least install a window type A/C unit.
Sorry to be such a downer, but that's what I have seen........
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
My layout space is a garage which, thanks to the presence of a gas fired hot water heater, CAN'T be climate controlled. I don't have the humidity problems common to Florida, but probably have greater daily and annual temperature swings.
Benchwork built of steel studs will negate the humidity-related swelling, shrinking and warping of benchwork built of forest products. That plus extruded foam insulation yields a very stable base for tracklaying.
One problem which I don't have in the dessicated desert which might impact a Florida layout is mold. Be prepared to deal with it if it does show up.
Good luck, and have fun.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I've got to second Mobilman44. I live in the Tampa Bay area and the heat isn't the problem. Every thing made of metal on your railroad will corrode. Only stainless steel has any real resistance to corrosion down here and precious little of model railroading is made from it. Even the paint on your locos and cars will see mildew from the temp/humidity. Don't do it. Seriously.
Lou
So Cal is as hot as Florida, but not as humid. My layout has been also in the garage, two of them now, the first was a drafty uninsulated hellpit during the summer, the new garage I had insulation installed in the walls and ceiling with an insulated garage door, even unconditioned the insulation helps keep the temps down to a tolerable level that can be delt with using fans. I am trying to add AC but its not easy, I should have done it during construction but ran out of money. Now the best i can do now is cut a hole in the wall and mount a window unit.
I would agree with those above, if you can add insulation to the walls and ceilings (either the whole garage or just a walled off layout area) is a big bonus, adding a window or wall mounted AC unit that can run of a regular 110V wall outlet is also a big recommendation, even a small unit will take the edge off, and a dehumidifyer would also be a good investment in your area.
Have fun with your trains
In the MR Special Issue How to Build More Layout in Less Space (p 6-13) There is a very nice layout in the garage and the garage still house the car and the layout...... in Miami.. Might be worth checking out
http://www.kalmbachstore.com/mr8100801.html
As one other astute modeler said here for a similar post: I cannot understand why a person would spend a few thousand dollars on a layout {and a layout frame, track, scenery and trains etc. for it can add up to that easy} and put in in an unclimatically controlled or unfinished space.
I understand the need to put a layout in a basement or garage, but to pawn it off on such an area seems a bit unreasonable. It would be like leaving your Rolls Royce out in the cold snow/salt to rust of the North or to peal paint and crack interior in the beating hot sun of the south.
I am also familiar with the fact that lately Florida also experiences swings to the colder temps as well, experienceing what we in the NE do.
Finishing off the space with insulation, vapor barrier and sheetrock would also be a wise investment to protect layout and trains. But that is another story.
BUT: A window A/c is only about $150-200 for a garaged sized area, a wall mounted a bit more if there is no window, and a bit more to have it installed if necessary. A small price to pay or the equivalent to a good DCC loco you may buy to keep in that space. A dehumudifier emptied often if necessary, {another $150} is also a good investment to protect those expensive locos and and trackage from humidity. IF you often experience cold snaps where you are, a small wall space heater can also help. This may make in unneceassry for you to take your trains in and out of the house every time you want to play. But what about your track and expansion in heat? You need to leave expansion joints every so often to avoid warpage of your trackwork {which can also add up in expense}.
As another astute modeler once noted on a similar post...can YOU stand to work on and operate a layout in such untamed conditions?
Just food for thought.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
To the O.P.
Hi again!
After reading my first reply to your post, and most of the others, you probably got the opinion that we are trying to discourage you from building a layout. Believe me, that couldn't be further from the truth.
What I believe we doing is trying to convince you not to make a major mistake - which could cost you time and money and perhaps even worse - enthusiasm for the hobby.
Good luck!
mobilman44 To the O.P. Hi again! After reading my first reply to your post, and most of the others, you probably got the opinion that we are trying to discourage you from building a layout. Believe me, that couldn't be further from the truth. What I believe we doing is trying to convince you not to make a major mistake - which could cost you time and money and perhaps even worse - enthusiasm for the hobby. Good luck!
Agreed, could you describe the space avalable ? What we are suggesting is to evaluate your available space, how much of it you plan to use, and how much upgrade work will that allocated space need to make it bearable in summer. If its already insulated and drywalled thats 1/2 the battle, if its exposed wood studs and rafters than based on my own personal experience I would recommend doing some initial upgrades like adding insulation and either drywall or plywood sheathing (I used Plywood and then used that to screw the layout supports into the plywood) Bob Hegge's Crooked Mountain Layout back in the 70's was in a special built 12'x14' "room" in his unheated basement, it was enclosed for similar reasons but for cold not heat. but what that did was give him a controlled conditioned space to build the layout, that had the additional benifit that it was securable, and the walls and celings became a continuous backdrop. I wish I had this option myself today but my layout is freestanding on a mobile base inside the garage, so no matter where I look I see the far wall of garage junk, so planning ahead with a little more work on the space you want to alocate could previde some very positive long term benifits for both you and your layout.
No no no worries.. and I highly doubt my enthusiasum could ever be curved. I just need a little N Scale in the winter, but I have no place to set anything up. I havnt had a layout set up since I was in my teens back when I lived with my parents and we had a nice sized finished basement. One Christmas we had a dinning table so large I ran duel N scale tracks around the table centerpiece. It was quite a sight..I'll have to get that picture from my brother. Now, I kinda live in a smaller house with no space besides maybe a 42"x10' layout squeezed in the garage as a last resort. I could do a shorter layout, but I figure 10 feet would give me more wiggle room for design. The garage is 80% cinderbirck walls exposed to the outside, and the garage door has a north western exposure, so I get a fare share of sun. My best bet might be to insulate the garage door, and the attic above. Maybe set up a smaller AC unit for the summer, sit out there enjoy a nice beer and play with some trains. I have dehumidifiers also, but again I plan on keeping the DC controlers and the locomotives inside when not in use. Currently I am monitoring air temp and humidity and plan to add insulation. Then, continue to monitor air temps and humidity to see how it helped. If things look good I might purchase lumber. I am gona give this a try - tracks first no fancy scenery for a year to see if they can withstand the conditions. Okay gotta run, thanks for the advice and suggestions everyone!
I live in a RV in southwest NM and believe me their no room for layout . so we had a carport build and screen it in so i put my son and I layout out in the carport for a year almost . I made a lot of thing weather proof . In your case I would put a ac or fan in .
~ Tim .
To see photos of my HO scale / 1/64 scale layout and diorama photos base in the present day . http://www.flickr.com/photos/icr140/
N Scale Florida No no no worries.. and I highly doubt my enthusiasum could ever be curved. I just need a little N Scale in the winter, but I have no place to set anything up. I havnt had a layout set up since I was in my teens back when I lived with my parents and we had a nice sized finished basement. One Christmas we had a dinning table so large I ran duel N scale tracks around the table centerpiece. It was quite a sight..I'll have to get that picture from my brother. Now, I kinda live in a smaller house with no space besides maybe a 42"x10' layout squeezed in the garage as a last resort. I could do a shorter layout, but I figure 10 feet would give me more wiggle room for design. The garage is 80% cinderbirck walls exposed to the outside, and the garage door has a north western exposure, so I get a fare share of sun. My best bet might be to insulate the garage door, and the attic above. Maybe set up a smaller AC unit for the summer, sit out there enjoy a nice beer and play with some trains. I have dehumidifiers also, but again I plan on keeping the DC controlers and the locomotives inside when not in use. Currently I am monitoring air temp and humidity and plan to add insulation. Then, continue to monitor air temps and humidity to see how it helped. If things look good I might purchase lumber. I am gona give this a try - tracks first no fancy scenery for a year to see if they can withstand the conditions. Okay gotta run, thanks for the advice and suggestions everyone!
SOunds like you are being wise. Window A/c, dehumidifiers after insulating the space {and maybe some sheetrock to help keep dust down sounds like a wise start!
I would be aware though that even if you take DC controllers and the trains inside during the non-use period thatt your track can oxidize and collect dust and "crap". So you may need to run a rag with alcohol over it frequently before new play..
Good luck I hope it works out well for you!
Ah to be somewhere warm! Living on an island in the northwest we don't have that problem much. My railroad is also in the garage. The walls are insulated for the cold! The door is sealed also. Summertime temps. are not much over 80, and not that often. All my track is soldered at every joint, except at one old shinohara turnout that has a live frog. In five years I have never had any track problems. A good space heater is my best friend! Have fun!
Phil, CEO, Eastern Sierra Pacific Railroad. We know where you are going, before you do!
Hello and welcome.
I have a lot of experience with having a layout in the garage. My layout is the one that a previous poster mentioned that appeared in the More Layout in Less Space special issue. The article details the steps I took to develope the layout in my Miami garage. While not the best option it is possible to build a layout in the garage. The position of the garage has a direct impact on the heat that you will have to deal with during the summer. Fortunately, I have a North facing garage and that greatly reduces the heat. You can add an A/C unit and it will help, but it will still be hot in the late afternoon. Adding insulation to the garage door might also help because of your western exposure. When I hold operating sessions during the warmer months of the year I open the door to the house and use a fan to help move some cooler A/C air into the garage.
I do not solder all the rail joints to allow for some expansion and contaction. The layout also uses modular components that use "bridge tracks" to connect the individual elements. I have not had any issues with my DCC system or any excessive corrosion problems due to the humidity. I would recommend as previous posters have indicated to paint all your wood. I have used two hollow core doors for the yard and have had no issues with warping or delamination. I also recommend the "gleam" method for keeping your track clean and reduce maintenance. You will need a regular cleaning and maintenance program (not much fun but necessary) to keep everything working. I held an operating session last night and receved many compliments on how well everything ran and worked. That makes all the work worthwhile.
Feel free to contact me if you have any more questions. I'll be happy to help you and give you my advice. The issues can be dealt with and you can have a great time running trains in a less than ideal environment.
Tom
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