Wire Guage for 100+ Feet??

[mjmueller]

Hello,

I just received some really nice military grade 14guage wire from my friend.  I have a new N-Scale layout that will have a wire run of about 100 - 120 feet.  I was wondering in the 14 guage would be good enough for this.  I hope so, as it's really nice wire & it's free.  Otherwise I would have to go out and buy 12 guage right?

Thank you.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

The 14 gauge wire would work very well for use as buss wires. However for connecting to the N Scale track it would be way too big. You'll need a smaller diameter wire to use as feeder wires. Something like 18 to 22 gauge or even smaller.

[rrinker]

 Is it really going to run 100-120 feet? Or is the power source going to be closer to the middle?  If it runs the whole length, then you actually have 240 feet of wire (need a complete circuit), and #14 wire, with a 2 amp load, will drop 1.4 volts over that distance - too much. Even #12 will have a drop of .9V under a 2 amp load.

 Are you using DC or DCC? With DCC the solution is to use additional boosters and distribute the power source to eliminate lengthy wire runs - even if you don't actually need the extra power to run trains. Wire sizes above #12 get rather unwieldy and expensive.

                                      -Randy

 

[mjmueller]

Well, Ok, I am new at this.  I can put the DCC in the middle of the layout, and maybe use some boosters.  then would 14 guage be ok for the BUS?  The picture is of my layout plan.  the room is 12X17

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[selector]

Your essentially looped track plan of such a length will need at least a single booster.  If it were me, I'd split the mains between two boosters, and power your substantial yard with another.

And certainly, your 14 gauge wire will do very nicely as a bus wire for runs of not more than about 60'

Crandell

[mjmueller]

So your saying I should have 3 boosters in all?  This seems like a lot to me, but I know the layout is large.  So, would I put the main power supply in the middle then stagger the boosters away from it?   Sorry for the Noob questions & Thank you.

mj

[BATMAN]

I would put my DCC at the right side of your layout in the middle. Attach it to a terminal strip and send the bus wires out like fingers from a terminal strip. Your longest one should then only be about 21 feet.

 

                                                                  Brent

 

[selector]

mjmueller

So your saying I should have 3 boosters in all?  This seems like a lot to me, but I know the layout is large.  So, would I put the main power supply in the middle then stagger the boosters away from it?   Sorry for the Noob questions & Thank you.

mj

Well, if you use only one, and if your total number of feet of rails is correct, one booster will be insufficient as Randy has stated.   What I am suggesting is, if you were to forget that the one side is a large yard, and suppose it were simply twinned mains completing that side, you would still have the same number of linear feet to power..correct?  One power supply would be hard pressed to run all that, even if you ran the pairs of bus wires outward from that one supply placed in the middle someplace.  It isn't a linear layout, it is circular, so no matter where you place a single booster, it will have to have long arms of bus wire twins reaching around until the power meets at the far side.

But in truth, the yard has many tens of feet of rails all needing power.  To me, that could stand at least a 2 amp dedicated power supply all by itself, and that's if you will only ever run at most a couple of engines with substantial trains, each engine with sound.  If you have several engines with sound moving at once, most with loads, those 2 amps won't be enough.  But I suspect it will be enough in the way you are likely to use the yard.  Or, are you going to have multiple operators?

For the rest of the large main, one or two boosters would be okay.  If you eliminate the yard complex from the requirement to power the rest of the layout remaining, then two boosters might be adequate...one for the yard and that side, and another only having to reach now around the rest of the shorter main.

[mjmueller]

Thanks so much guys for all the info.  So to be 100% clear, if I use 1 or 2 boosters, will the 14 guage wire be good?  Also not it is stranded wire, is this ok?

Thank you,

mj

[cmrproducts]

On my home layout (HO) I ran it for many years with just one 8 amp Command Station/Booster set

I had over 2500 ft of track and could run 50 engines/Trains with it and had no problems.

Once I began adding sound then I had to add several Boosters with PM42 Power Managers (4 controlled circuits).

I now have 25% of my 65 engine fleet with sound and have 3400 ft of track!

SO -

Running N scale with the size of your layout - it should easily handle what your are planning without adding more Boosters.

NOW !

If you end up going with sound engines - EXPECT to add more Boosters and split the layout into small sections!

As for your #14 wire - it will easily handle the expected load with runs less than 50 feet - as the N scale engines will not draw the amps that an equivalent HO engines will draw!

BOB H - Clarion, PA

[rrinker]

I can't get the picture to load, so I'm not sure what the layout looks like, but a 12x17' layout shouldn't need 100-120' wire runs. My layout is 10x15 and the longest run is 27 feet. For that sort of thing, #14 wire and a single booster will be fine.

 Solid wire is fine, although I prefer stranded for the bus because it's easier to pull through the benchwork. But either will work.

                                  --Randy

 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

mjmueller

Well, Ok, I am new at this.  I can put the DCC in the middle of the layout, and maybe use some boosters.  then would 14 guage be ok for the BUS?  The picture is of my layout plan.  the room is 12X17

Don't assume that the bus wire has to follow the same route as the track. You can make straight runs of the wire from the command station. This way the wires will cross under the track at multiple points allowing you to attach the feeder wires at or near those points. As long as you keep the polarity straight you won't have a problem and you keep the wire runs down to manageable lengths. I used #16 gauge wire on my layout for the buss lines and heavy telephone wire for the feeders. My buss lines are green and white. Green for the outside rail and white for the inside rail. The feeders are red and black. Red from the green buss and black from the white buss.If I was in doubt I checked it with a multi-meter. If a wire I was checking was attached to the wrong wire it wouldn't read continuity when I touched the other probe to a rail I knew to be correctly wired. I have quite a bit of track and 2.5 amps handles it all without a problem.

[Hamltnblue]

Agreed that the longes buss wire will be 30 feet or less, given the size of the room

14 wire is more than enough.

[modelmaker51]

My layout has about the configuration as yours except my yard is at the left end wall. My room is 12x25 and it is H0. I use a 5amp booster which located at the end of the penninsula. My 12 gauge buss "t's" at the right end of the penninsula and follows the layout around the walls. There is a doorway at the left side of the lower wall with a lift out bridge, the buss stops on either side of the bridge, with the bridge connected to the left side. We run as many as 10-12 engines (about half with sound) and pretty long trains. The booster has never drawn more than 4 amps momentarily and it usually averages about 3.5 amps at full layout capacity (10-12 engines, 4 operators). All rail joints are soldered and there are 20gauge drops every 10-15 feet. I have never had an overload.

So, for your N-scale layout, the 14 gauge wire should be fine, as should a 3 amp system. A 5 amp booster would probably run cooler.

[rrinker]

 I finally got the image to load. Actually that was a while ago and I meant to eadit my post, but got distracted. At any rate, if you put the booster at the base of the penninsula, that would pretty much minimize the distance anything would be fromt he power source. One bus run upt he penninsula could feed the track on both sides, and run a loop around the rest of the layout. It can be continuous or cut at the mid point of the other side - it won't matter. In either case, the longest run would be half the total distance around the layout. WAY under 120 feet. #14 will be fine. My layout is very similar in shape, just not as wide, including a penninsula in the center of the right side.

           --Randy

 

[mobilman44]

Hi!

My HO DCC layout is 11x15, with two levels.  It pretty much fills the room with a "hole" in the middle of the layout for the operator.  I have a Digitrax system with 8 power districts, with a couple of the power districts being a complete "circle" of a main line.  To keep the buss wires relatively short, I run two sets for those power districts - one set to the left, the other to the right (of the DCC equipment).  This limits my longest run to about 26 feet or so. 

For your layout - which is smaller than mine - there is no need for a buss wire set to be more than 20-25 feet.  Of course, maybe you are wiring the layout as one power district, having the buss wire weave its way near every section of track.  Frankly, I would discourage that, and divide the layout into multiple power districts. 

For 26 feet, 14 gauge stranded buss wire is more than adequate.  The feeder wires are 20 awg, and all are 12 inches or less.

 

 

[Allegheny2-6-6-6]

To answer your initial question, yes 14g wire is more then sufficient, it really doesn't matter what scale trains your running or how many boosters are involved etc. 14g is ample for buss wiring plain and simple. Regarding how to run your bus I will respectfully disagree with those who say it doesn't matter how you run it. The main and actually only reason for following the track plan is to keep your drops aka feeder wires at a minimum length. being as your using such a light gage wire length is critical so the more you keep it at an acceptable minimum the less voltage drop issues you'll encounter.A common misconception regarding DCC buss wiring is that some say it has to be run in a loop, not true in fact you want to avoid doing this. It is perfectly fine to run the loop out of your booster and follow the line you choose lets say your mainline around and terminate it a few feet from it's origin your booster. Reason being is you want to have as many drops as possible. Some say you only need them here and there which may or may not be true but no harm will come from having extra drops. At the club we run a drop on every 3' section of flex track, overkill some say but we have never had a single issue when it comes to power distribution. regarding where to place your boosters and how many you will need seems to always be a topic of contention.between modelers. My railroad is relatively simple wiring and booster wise. I run one booster on each of my two track main lines, one for my entire branch line and one for my big classification yard.Everything operates extremely well and I am totally satisfied at least for now. I feel the number of trains you run is one of the determining factors of how many boosters one's layout will need, but I a not an expert but pretty much understand the theory and application behind DCC. I have yet to find a direct correlation between dcc with sound and how many boosters etc. but then I am not fully operational and even when I am I don't intend to have a great number of trains running at the same time. This may not apply to someone who is building and operating a railroad for operations purposes.

Allen Gartners wiring for DCC is an excellent source of information, a lot of his information applies to Digitrax systems but the general application can be applied to any system.

 

 

 

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