Hey all, I've recently (Read: about a year or two ago) acquired some models and track from one of my father's friends. Long story short, my dad and I have decided to begin work on a layout before I head off to college and the Army. Problem is is that I can't find a track design I like. I will say that I rather like the St. Louis model built in around 2001 by MRR and was thinking that it could be modified to suit my needs.
But, neither of us have a clue as to what we're doing. I recently took some pictures of the room we're building the layout in, which I think should help in determining what I can build and how. Problems with this room include severe moisture in the summer (rainwater tends to seep into the basement - and pools on the floor) and dust and debris - lots of it. I recently had to dust off some of the models I've built because of that. Along with the plywood and foam we bought, my neighbor was gracious enough to provide us with surplus supplies he wasn't using. (A sheet of I'm guessing more foam and several wood sheets I can use for fascia)
Now, as to industries I have a wooden grain silo, a modern concrete silo, concrete facility, feed and seed, ice facility and if my memory is correct several generic industries. Rolling stock ranges to everything from tankers to hoppers to two passenger cars. Some of these cars (such as the tanker and passengers obviously) need a large radius to look good. I'm hoping to build a late 90's layout, preferably with both switching and mainline action, but I don't know how possible that is with the materials (and little experience) I have. Below are the pictures I described earlier, if need be I can provide a sketch of the room as well.
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I'd recommend going for a simple first layout, that won't be too hard or take too long to build. Something like the "World's Greatest Hobby" trackplan...you can even get boxed sets of the track from a couple of manufacturers (I'd recommend the Kato track). Kalmbach's 101 or 102 track plan books both have good ideas for small layouts. You didn't enter a fifty mile race the first week you learned to ride a bike, start out small and have fun learning while you build.
Old Train Fan, far as the water, you should really find away to stop it. If you can't then you need to use something other than wood for the layout. You can use steel wall studs for the frame and foam for the top. Nice thing about the steel studs is they are straight!
What do you mean by debris, stuff falling from the ceiling or just junk laying around?Far as dust we all deal with it. Adding a ceiling and painting the wall's and floor will help. But you will still have dust and train layouts seem to draw little spiders as well.
Far as track plan, what do you want to do? Do you want to run your layout like a real Rail Road, with waybills and switching, or rail fan like me. Rail fan means you just like to watch the trains go around the bench? I mainly like to watch, but I can do switching if I am in the mood. Other thing I all wise recommended is have 2 main lines. It can get boring just watching one train.
My self, when I got started I just had at it with no real plan, sometimes people just plan to much. Now if you want to run it like a real rail road that is way different. My last section I found a plan that sort of worked for me. As I was laying the rails I had a few and saw some other ideas that worked out fine.
Think about what you want and post again, and try to stop the water.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
As far as By "debris" I mean the walls around the layout are literally crumbling. (House was built in 1880, and not a whole lot has been done in the basement since). For the water problem we were thinking of putting the wood legs up on bricks or mounting them on wheels. As far as what I want in terms of operation...casual, but still realistic, if you get what I mean. I'll do some more research and see what I want and what I can allow and scrap (for example the longer cars).
Welcome to the forums and model railroading.
My first suggestion would be to get some beginner model rr books and do some more reading. You can usually get them at your LHS or they can be ordered by from MR or Walthers. These will give you some tips on how to decide on what you want to do and how to do it.
Next suggestion would be to put some sort of ceiling up in the basement to keep some of the debris from falling on the layout. Just some 1/4" plywood would help. If you weren't heading off to school, etc, I might suggest finishing the basement to keep even more of the debris off. If dad is going to keep working on the rr while you are gone, maybe it should be done anyhow. (You can set up a 4'x8' and cover it while working, if you want to feed the modeling bug while finishing the room.)
Is there enough of a water problem to warrent a dehumidifier or a sump pump?
As for a track plan, I think a simple one that can be expanded if you enjoy the hobby is a good plan.
Good luck,
You really must do something about the water and crumbling walls and dust and dirt or your railroad project will suffer, perhaps disastrously (to say nothing of the house itself)!
Yes, raising the layout on bricks might keep it out of the water on the floor, but that is not a solution to the long-term problem. Painting wood benchwork will minimize moisture absorption to some degree if the atmosphere is simply damp, but free water will damage it no matter what. And metal benchwork will rust in a damp environment or in contact with free water; even galvanized studs will eventually. The metal components of your models will rust, too. And painting the floor won't help if it's subjected to free water!
There are many possible solutions to your environmental issues (there have been extensive threads in this forum regarding that subject), but it is not possible to be specific about your problems without actually viewing them in person. Find yourselves an architect or engineer or contractor or home inspector, at least, who has good references and credentials and solicit his/her advice. You have bigger fish to fry than the layout for a start!
Dante
I'm in the middle of a somewhat similar situation.
The first thing I can suggest to you is learn learn learn and plan plan plan. Think about how devoted you are to this and what kind of time you're going to have as well as the cash expenditure that you can accept. These will all be defining factors.
As far as books... model railroader really is second to none on ideas and learning this stuff. I've acquired "Basic Model Railroad Track Plans," "How to build more layout in less space," "102 realistic track plans," "building a model railroad step by step," "HO railroad from start to finish," and "basic wiring for model railroads." You're welcome, Kalmbach Publishing, haha.
There are a lot of different techniques and design ideas. Think about what YOU want and spend plenty of time planning and drawing. I've ended up coming up with a very non standard design that is fairly complex and am still deep in the planning stages.
As far as the situation in your basement... remember these are electronics you're working with. Water doesn't play well with electronics and you could be talking a serious rust situation. Nip that in the bud while youre doing your planning.
Have fun!
Hold my beer... ya'll watch this!
Sounds, as if you have to do a lot work before you can put up a layout in your basement. Moisture and dust/debris falling off your walls and ceiling are definitively not an environment for a layout. You need to get that basement clean and dry. After all, a layout is some investment, which you don´t want to see rot away in no time at all.
I should have been more specific about the water. It is the humanity in the air that will cause the problems.Rather it be the bench work, or the engines and rolling stock.
Far as patching the wall's, I doing my kitchen floor and used a Concrete sub floor leveler. I have been looking at a lot concrete material, and there is a lot of stuff made for patching walls that won't break the bank. Personal, I head to a Lowe's or a Home Depot and talk with them and see what they have to say.
Does the water come from the walls or through a floor drain?
Dehumidifier is a big plus in any basement, but what about heat? Does it stay warm in the winter? If you don't enjoy the room the layout is in, you won't enjoy the layout.
While I was looking at your pictures I saw you where using a saw horse to hold up the layout. I would use real legs and adjuster on the bottom of the legs. With your house being built in the 1880's I bet the floor is not level. You might be surprised how a 2 degree tilt will effect the way the trains run.
You stated you want to build the layout before you go to collage and then join the Army. How long do you have? Depending on how much detail you want it can take years to do a modest sizes layout.
I second the earlier posts. As to the water I'd start by using that good young body and help ole dad install a sump pump. It only takes a day or so and will help big time. Just google the subject but it basically involves getting a sump basin and installing it with a gravel bed at the low point in the basement, at least a foot from the foundation. A pump is then installed with PVC pipe that automatically comes on when the basin is full.
After that scrape the walls and seal them with a good water seal paint. place some tyvec or similar plastic sheeting on the ceiling above the area of the layout to prevent dust or dirt from falling, then start the layout. This really doesn't take too much time and you'll have a better layout and the parents will have a more secure home the same time.
Good Luck
Springfield PA
I would not do anything until the issue of a clean, dry environment for your layout is aquired somehow.
If you have water issues, do you have adequate gutters on the house, with pipes at the base to direct water far away from the foundation so it doesn't leak in? DOes it come up through the cement floor or walls weeping through the concrete? You probably have concrete smeared over a stacked stone foundation so it will weep all the time. If you have standing water, it will NOT be a habitable enviroment for model trains. Even a dehumidifier won't help if you have too much standing water in your basement. Water and moisture in the air will corrode the moving parts of model trains and cause running problems. Water and trains do not mix at all.
The crumbling walls will cause lots of dust problems and that kind of "big dust" is also an enemy of small moving parts. I've seen crubling basements like you show. You will have to at least keep it covered when not using it with a plastic thin drop cloth sheet to keep dust off it, but remember: the dust on top the sheet will get stired up in the air when you go to remove it and will still settle on your layout...and into your lungs.
You can use the plastic saw horses you appear to have in the room taht will not soak up water and rot or rust, but the moisture in the air will still be a problem. If there is also not adequate heat in the winter it can cause any moisture to freeze in smaller crystals and that can spell trouble also. When the water evaporates it can leave behind the minerals/salts in the water and that can cause problems.
How about a spare bedroom or even a good atttic space?
Meanwhile, you can read more about layouts, to find one you like, and modeling "armchair style" while you work out a clean dry location to layout and run your trains. I would, as others suggest, start with a small layout and build up from there. Starting a large layout and getting disappointed as you go along trying to "finish"it can get frustrating if you run out of time and/or money. WE want you to enjoy the hobby not become disdainful of it! {LOL}
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
After doing some research and looking around, I've found two rooms I believe can be used for this. Problem is is that we'd need to move either a bed or a bunch of bookshelves! (neither are very fun, I've moved these before) I've also planned to steal borrow the St. Louis Central 4x8, except flipped for future expansion options. Now it'll just be a matter of figuring out how to get the plywood and foam upstairs and actually moving everything...
If you are going with a 4 X 8 layout, make sure you can walk around the bench. Most adults only have a 26" to 30" reach. With you being young, you might be able to pull off laying on your stomach and doing good rail laying.
Have you thought about doing a round the room shelf layout with a lift out bridge? Or a free standing doughnut layout like this one?
I take no credit for any of the track plans, next one are from this site that I saved.
I all so have no details on the plan's. I just saved them for ideas for the next layout.
By the way, what is your first name? I am Ken.
First off, my name is James. Good to meet you Ken.
Lots of great suggestions - I'll look into them!
EDIT: About the Heart of Georgia layout - could that be built using open-grid (butt-join) benchwork?
OldTrainFan EDIT: About the Heart of Georgia layout - could that be built using open-grid (butt-join) benchwork?
Sure!
By the way, if you consider it, that Kristina plan above has a slew of stub-end tracks that are too short to be of meaningful use.
IF you are new to hobby, don't want to tackle something complicated first off, and have enough space, you might consider taking a small place, one for a minimally-sized layout, but building it with more generous curves, longer passing sidings and spurs etc. LARGE layout but with small number of turnouts, same amount of wiring etc. as small company layout.
Once again all, thanks for the replies. I've focused on two 5x9 plans (I've abandoned the 4x8 - too small radii for my tastes) so now it's just a matter of picking one I think I'll have more fun with. I guarantee once actual construction begins I'll post some pics of the progress!
Hi, James, and welcome to the hobby!
First of all, I assme you're living in your parents house. I grew up in a 1950's-era house with a finished basement. A dehumidifier and electric heater were still necessary to keep the basement environment satisfactory for a layout.
When I went away to college, my parents sent my train stuff to some cousins for a while, and promptly moved into a house that was built in 1720. Whle it was a beautiful house, it was completely unsuited to model railroading. The basement was interesting: the floor was hand-laid concrete (in other words, mixed in a wheelbarrow in small batches and poured and smoothed by hand) over aggregate, the walls were fieldstone, it was only about 7' high, and it had all kinds of water issues. While the house had been rewired in the 1960's, it still had fuses instead of circuit breakers, and was not blessed with the number of outlets we need for all our modern gadgets. Those outlets that were their all had multiple plug adapters and were probably overloaded.
Long story short, I had to wait until I had a house of my own (after college, grad school, and a stint in the Navy) before I got my stuff back and got back into the hobby. If your parents are willing to be accommodating and finish the basement, great, but I wouldn't force the issue. Perhaps a shelf layout around the walls of your bedroom would be more suited to your current situation.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
I come back with some questions before I go crazy on buying parts and track and so forth - how do I find out of I own some of the switches needed? The track plan calls for several no.5 turnouts and one no. 8 left. Also, the track plan calls for a tunnel. Should I try to carve a tunnel out of the foam or lower out the track in the plywood itself to ease in building the tunnel?
Thanks again for all the replies and ideas! I'll keep them in mind as I go along!
On the tunnel, you don't carve a tunnel through the foam. You build a foam box that looks like a hill.
Here's mine James.
Far as turnout sizes, if they are Atlas I think the sizes is on the back of them.
Will you be able to walk all the way around the 5 X 9? Pictures I posted is of my 9 X 8.5 peninsula and I can walk all the way around it. Still a little bite of a reach for me at 6' 4".
Ken
Perhaps this would help a bit more in finding an answer - the tunnel needs to go under the main track and circle around to a tunnel on the opposite side - the specific track plan I'm looking at is the Central Belt Line featured in the 1999 edition of Model Railroad Planning...not sure if that's available or findable anymore...if I can, I'll upload a picture of the track plan to help further illustrate this point.