I am contemplating tearing out an under table staging yard. I have a 4'x8' hidden stub end staging yard under one of my towns.with two separate entrances. all the trackage can be accessed from either side and there is 5" clearance between levels enough room to reach the inner most track. I am not sure if it will be more trouble then it's worth. All the track is just spiked into the Homasote and I used Atlas custom line turnouts with their switch machines. so it would be no big deal tearing out all the track and turnouts.
What are your thoughts about under table yards anyone use them if so are the just a matter of necessity or are they practical etc.
Have Fun.... Bob.
good point score one for the don'ts
Under layout staging is quite common in Germany, as space is usually at a premium. We call it "Schattenbahnhof" or "shadow station" and it is used for storing trains, not so much for handling trains, like a fiddle yard. Track needs to be laid with utmost care and access needs to be possible, when Murphy´s Law hits. Those 5 inches you mention maybe a little too tight to manhandle derailments a.s.
I'm just starting out but I've done a lot of homework before my first cut. I have an 8 inch clearance and so far so good.
John
I started an under table staging yard a couple months ago and after trying to get the grade right just to get under the table and then looking at all the what ifs- something fails, derails, wont come uncoupled, I said to heck with the plan and just took some scrap plywood that gave me about a 2 x 10 run and added my staging yard to the end of my layout. It is a bit of reach if i need to get to something in the middle of my layout but that is rare and if I really needed to get to the middle , just undo the section of track leading to my staging/rail yard, undo a few screws and I can remove the section. I got 5 nice runs of staging track and can hold about 60 -70 cars and left a little realestate I can add some rail yard buildings to the area as well.
On a 4ft wide area, that 5" of clearance will fill your cuss-jar rather fast! !
Is there something that prevents you from dropping it down, either permanently, or on a manual elevator arrangement? Even hinging 1 end would be helpful. If you just park trains there, you can get away with somewhat tight clearance, but if you fiddle or even un-/re-couple, you need that access and visibility.
What's above the staging? If it is switch motors, they will need attention sometime, and they're sharp on the back of your hands.
I'd really consider a re-drawing: sort of like using the 8' to give a grade down to the far end to gain ~2" more space with the flat stg entrance coming back to you. If you go for stub-ends, that means about 5-6' of stg per run with no turnaround, less if you have turnaround at the other end too. A helix will need more than 5ft diameter, but can give unlimited vertical advantage, or be the staging on its own.
Looking at it a bit differently, can whatever that is above the stg be hinged to be lifted upward to give access?
I'd recommend a rethink!
Have fun, George
All of the specialwork with moving parts in my hidden track is installed on removable framework sections secured to the main layout with fixed studs and wing nuts. In addition, the 'fixed' track can be reached either by folding the control panels down, unscrewing fascia panels or lifting 'landforms' with no track and minimal cosmetic lighting.
Now under construction, my main passenger staging yard, seven tracks wide and four meters from end to end. In operation, it will be up between the L girders - totally inaccessible. For cleaning, maintenance and correction of events it will drop about 40 centimeters, giving over thirty centimeters of 'clear air' access.
My total length of hidden track will be far more than my total length of visible track - but 'hidden' doesn't mean inaccessible.
Chuck (Modeling the netherworld of Japan in September, 1964)
Add another vote against it. Now if you can get in and have dirrect access thats a different story. I put a 3 track through staging yard under my mountain/dessert scene and regret it. 2 large radius tunrouts are not accessible at all and the other side are out in the open so I am OK there. There is no way to reach over any trains and if there is an issue I get to twist into many different shapes to retrive any cars or locos. I am considering solutions to make it 1 through track and move my staging somewhere else.
Well at 2:30 am est I started tearing out the one half of the yard which yielded me 60' of flex track and half a dozen # 6 turnouts and half dozen #4's and two wye's all of which will be better used in the construction of my new Lakehurst yard. See what made this idea dangerous is that I first built the yard(s) and then decked the top of the area with 3/4" birch set on a frame work. Maybe if I hinged the entire top it would have been some what east to work on. (only kidding about the hinges)
There's nothing wrong with hidden staging, as long as it's thoughtfully planned, and carefully installed. I'll have two rather large staging yards in my layout, now under construction. I'm working in N scale, too, so I have to be extra careful to avoid any problems in my subterranean world.
I'm building "balloon" style staging, where the trains enter and leave from the same end with a reversing circuit. There's about 6" to 8" clear above the tracks, with the framing you see above being the exception.
I have a one turn helix at the end of the east yard, which connects to the rest of the layout via a drop leaf bridge that crosses the aisle. I used Peco snap switches, all located within easy reach of the aisle, and all powered, controlled from a point where the yard throats are visible to the operator.
Here's the recently reconstructed balloon tracks. In the east yard, each track can hold two 25 car trains, with the first train ending about where the drill is, and the second train's engines being about where the roll of tape is. There will be a window in the fascia at this point, so these moves can be managed visually. I'm also installing some lighting below decks to aid in inspections and locating disasters, which I accept will be a part of life. I'm maintaining access from below in the middle of the loop, and the straight sections are all easily access from the aisle.
Here's my staging plan:
If I had more room, I'd prefer more accessible staging, but my space is what it is, so I have to do the best I can with what I have to work with.
Again, a little bit of thoughtful planning, care in execution, and patience in operating, and hidden staging can be reliable and easy to work with.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
Given the way I operate my layout, I do not believe that a staging yard, per se, is always worth the effort. Some of you may want to have entire trains made up and ready to run. A unit coal train or grain train, for example. Or a complete passenger consist. For that purpose, a staging yard makes a lot of sense.
In my case, I like to use my regular layout classification yard to build trains. I decide in advance the cars that I want in the train and their destinations. Across the garage from the layout, I have a bank of cabinets where I store rolling stock. Towards the front of the shelves I have put down lengths of flex track where I keep some of the cars that I tend to use more frequently than others. Before an operating session, I choose the cars I will need and "populate" my yard tracks with them.
For my next layout, I will probably move the storage tracks from the cabinets to underneath the layout for the sake of convenience.
John Timm
I have several under layout staging yards. (HO scale) My benchwork is "domino" construction including the staging yards. The sections (18" x 72") are bolted together with 1/4" bolts. Very sturdy and strong construction; however staging sections can be easily removed if I need to work on them. The clearence between staging and the next deck also averages 12" so there is plenty of access space.
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
BiL Marsland (P5se Camelback) Lehigh Susquehanna & Western Northeastern Pennsylvania Coal Hauler All Camelback Steam Roster!! "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others" -- George Orwell, Animal Farm, Chpt. 10
Bob grech The Late John Allen once made a comment that he would never plan another hidden staging track on any future layout he would build. I have to agree. Not because he said, but because, sooner or later, one of those turnouts will fail and need to be fixed / accessed. With only 5 inches of clearance, your probably going to regret it.
The Late John Allen once made a comment that he would never plan another hidden staging track on any future layout he would build. I have to agree. Not because he said, but because, sooner or later, one of those turnouts will fail and need to be fixed / accessed. With only 5 inches of clearance, your probably going to regret it.
Those are good points btw-- thanks! But, so why not build the staging yard so its hinged on one side for access if/whenever needed. I realize this isn't something you're gonna wanna do every day, but if your space is limited and under the layout is all you've got... Alternately, why not build it so the whole staging yard can slide out on drawer slides? I've seen this done in the magazines and it looks good. I've always wondered if it worked well or not?
What I'd like to see addressed (and photos, if available) is how people are getting from their under-layout staging yards up to the main deck for operations.
jwhitten What I'd like to see addressed (and photos, if available) is how people are getting from their under-layout staging yards up to the main deck for operations. John
Hi John,
my layout is loosely based on Pelle Soeborg's book Mountain to Desert expept I have a little more room than he had so I was able to go with 36" radius versus his 33". I am also doing a Canadian theme instead of his UP one. My layout basically goes twice around the room. In the picture I've uploaded, you can see the exit from the staging coming up the grade and then again going down.
Just throwin an idea out here but what if you built the staging yard in question on drawer slides. use jumpers like in a lift out bridge to power the drawer. When something derails unhook the leads pull open the drawer and fix the problem. When fixed push back in and reconnect the lead. I would only use this method on the yard area itself and not the lead in track. You could make the yard as long as you wanted and just add slide supports under the drawer. Of course that may lead to upper deck problems if there was a problem and you needed to get under to fix the problem, but the trains could always come off staging and the drawers can always be removed off their tracks easily for maint on top track wiring.
My 2 cents.
alco's forever!!!!! Majoring in HO scale Minorig in O scale:)
cndash9 my layout is loosely based on Pelle Soeborg's book Mountain to Desert expept I have a little more room than he had so I was able to go with 36" radius versus his 33". I am also doing a Canadian theme instead of his UP one. My layout basically goes twice around the room. In the picture I've uploaded, you can see the exit from the staging coming up the grade and then again going down.
jwhitten What I'd like to see addressed (and photos, if available) is how people are getting from their under-layout staging yards up to the main deck for operations.
Often, just a ramp.
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cuyama jwhitten What I'd like to see addressed (and photos, if available) is how people are getting from their under-layout staging yards up to the main deck for operations. Often, just a ramp.
On one end of my 'Netherworld' I have two pretzel-knot curves (separated double track) with 2% grades to lose about 7 total inches. Everywhere else, the local terrain drops to 'Netherworld' level. The long visible 2.5% grade between my two mainline stations is built in front of the basically level sequential staging tracks and thoroughfare on the same shelf. There is a stub-end track between the hidden mains just inside the tunnel portals at main-station level for the EMUs that shuttle back and forth (multiple crossovers between it and the mains, five cars mix-and-match into 2-, 3- or 4-car trains to meet schedule requirements) That stub is under scenery behind a visible short line station about 6 inches above it.
Right now all of the visible track and covering scenery is on my 'to be built' list. By the time I actually hide the Netherworld under scenery I will have operated over all of those tracks for, literally, years - and I will still make sure that I can access every millimeter of them to correct whatever Murphy comes up with.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Someone asked for example so I thought I would attempt to explain my efforts.
First is the track plan.
If you are running a train out of Colton heading toward the top of the page you will come upon two right hand curved turnouts leading into the hidden staging. If you were to continue you would take a sweeping right curve and emerge from under the tall steal bridge and end up in Victorville.
This is the curved end of the staging yard heading toward the yard. Leaving one end of the train out where it can be seen and having the correct cards in the perspective slot is very important so I can call up the proper loco or consist.
Here the train on the lower track is comming from staging.
And here are some before scenery shots.
The two turnouts on the double loop side of the staging yard are very difficult to reach and I recently removed the scenery covering them in hopes to build a removeable hatch.