I am building a large model railroad. It's measurements are 20X40, around the walls of my train room with dogbone ends. This layout will have 3-foot wide shelves and 6X6 dogbone ends. My goal is to make the layout as realistic as I can, given the antique materials I have to work with. I understand that Model Railroader magazine does not feature the gauge I am working in, but I think it should make some room for it. As far as model railroading is concerned, it's all good and a good idea on layout building is a good idea, regardless of gauge. Perhaps my build will be an inspiration. Here is a link to my blog, with pics and details:
http://timmysamericanflyertrains.blogspot.com/
-Timboy
Hi!
May I suggest you post on the Classic Toy Train section of this Forum, for the readers there are much more attuned to Flyer/Lionel.
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
While Model Railroader doesn't cover American Flyer or S hi rail, they do cover S scale - both standard and narrow gauge. Since it's a minority scale they don't have a lot of S scale specific articles, but many of the articles are as applicable to S as to other scales. For American Flyer and S hirail articles, see Classic Toy Trains magazine.
Enjoy
Paul
Regardless of scale, I hope your plan is not up against a wall (walls). Most people are fully extended with a 30" reach, I personally prefer 24". Obviously your 72" turnback loops will need access on 2 or 3 sides, or via an access hatch.
I am HO, and understand bigger scales need bigger spaces. Just make sure you can get to it all.
Have fun! Bill
Agree that the 36 inch shelf width is too far for convenient reach-in access. My absolute limit is just under 30 inches at belt-buckle height, and there had better not be anything fragile close to the near edge of the benchwork. I would suggest that you test your own reach at your planned layout height and build accordingly.
Of course, if you build everything from 18 inches back in the form of lift-out modules, all bets are off.
For the other posters here, 'larger scale' could be On30, scale O, Q* or any of the G-gauge scales, not just Lionel or Flyer...
*Q is either 1:48 on 1 3/16 inch gauge, or 1:45 on 1.25 inch gauge.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - in 1:80 scale, aka HOj)
Nice clouds.
loathar: Thanks!
onebiglizard & tomikawaTT: Thanks for your suggestions and concerns. Truth is, the whole perimeter layout IS up against the walls, except for three sides of the dogbone (turnaround) ends. The shelves are 36" wide, which is what I have determined is the minimum space needed to do what I want to do in the gauge I'm doing it. However, I have worked into the plans at least a 6" space behind the rearmost track for scenery. That puts the rearmost track at a max of 30" from the fascia. The only problem I anticipate is that I'll have to be careful how high I elevate that rear track so that I can still access it easily (although in hand-laying it, I may have to use a step-stool). I also have left a good 6" from the front track to the sculpted (when completed) front fascia. The back-most scenery may be a bit of a challange for me to build, but once it's done, it's done. I may use foam to carve out rocks, etc. on my workbench and fix it in place back there once it's painted and covered. I could also use wads of black polyfil covered with foams to represent massive foliage-covered areas; trees could work the same way. I anticipate that there will be places where I'll just let the clouds show through or simply paint a backdrop, so I'll have to work it all out as I go. At any rate, this track plan and benchwork represents a quantum leap in accessibility from my old layout where I had to either pop up or crawl over elevated track to reach areas. I'm glad that monstrosity is down. This build should be a relative piece of cake to access all areas.
I've started setting in the pillars to support the glued-up spline I'll be making in place for my trackwork. That is an interesting process and I'll be posting pics and details later this week.
Thanks again,
Timboy
I don't see 36" wide bench work being a problem as your bench work looks kind of low to the floor. I personally regardless of scale wold have it no less then 48" off the floor. Model trains regardless of scale look more realistic when viewed at eye level as opposed to looking down or a birds eye view. Your structures and scenery will look more realistic as well. As far as reaching the back of the bench work at 36" wide yes of course 24" is better but 36" is still assessable Tony Koester has small platform throughout various spots of his NKP extension for this exact reason. I plan on adding them as I get closer to finishing the railroad and simply have them on hinges so when now needed they can be folded up and out of the way.
If you plan on using anything other then clownish in your back drops such as photo backdrops for example I strongly suggest you put them in place before you go any farther. I am building a two wall yard section to my layout which i hadn't planned on earlier which is no big deal easy to access etc. but the problem I am encountering is the track exiting the yard which has to go behind the only finished part of the layout so this should prove to be a challenge, I am planning on saving my back with Mircromark's top side creeper.
One question you mentioned in your blog about ripping 12 sheets of Homasote I am assuming this is going to be your layout base are you planning on putting plywood under the Homasote or straight on top of the bench work?
Keep us posted on the progress it will be nice to see something different
Allegheny2-6-6-6: Thanks for your observations and insights. I appreciate it. I ripped down the homosote yesterday to 2" wide strips. They will be for face-gluing a spline to lay the track on. I don't know if I'll have enough, so I'll use the strips for the curved sections first, since they bend well enough. I figure that if I have to, I can rip down plywood for straight runs. My layout will be hollow, so there will be scenery above, even and below track level. I'll use a variety of techniques that have been discussed on this and other forums as well as whatever I can invent. I'll earnestly try to make all of my scenery to scale as best as my ability allows and will keep my blog updated with pics and details as I go along. Since I'll be using a large-gauge out-of-scale track and train system, I'll refrain from posting anything specifically about that directly on this forum. Otherwise, you can follow my progress at: http://timmysamericanflyertrains.blogspot.com/
I ripped down the homosote yesterday to 2" wide strips. They will be for face-gluing a spline to lay the track on.
I have to ask are you planning on standing the Homasote on end such as Allen McCelland did on the V& O? I used spline subroadbed on the main part of the new layout but used the method used by Howard Zane and others ripping the pieces about 3-1/2" to 4" wide and cutting kerfs every 1/4" or so to get it to bend.
Allegheny2-6-6-6 : Yes, I am planning on standing it up on end. In fact, I have just completed the first curved section and an very pleased with the result. I think it looks good and is extremely solid. The homosote bends well and makes a gracefully flowing curve. I have it all clamped up and am waiting for the exterior-grade glue to dry. I re-inforced it with long screws in the sides. I may go with a through-bolt here and there as well. The first curve was a little difficult to get started, but now I can see a quicker way to do it and am anticipating it to go a lot easier. My quicker way will be to put in an upright pillar at the critical points and bend as I laminate, securing it to those points. I can fill in the other support pillars later, tweaking elevation as needed. I hope to have some pics before the week-end. The other way you described sounds doable, but for the larger gauge I am using, I decided to go "Full Monty" with it up on end, for the added support for heavy locos and to stand the stress of me hand-spiking rails, etc. I have enough to do all my curves that way. If needed, I'll rip 1/2" plywood straights and face-glue two of them together for added strength. I have no immediate shortage of 1/2" plywood.
Regards,
Tim,
I saw on a video where Rick Rideout of Rix's products used but along the lines of what your talking about he used a long finishing nail as the point which he bent the Homasote and clamped it with spring clamps to hold it in place and then did the same with the second and third pieces gluing and clamping as he moved along.I can see where this method has some advantage over the way I did mine but I'm please with the end results.
Timboy My goal is to make the layout as realistic as I can, given the antique materials I have to work with.
I understand that Model Railroader magazine does not feature the gauge I am working in, but I think it should make some room for it.
Allegheny2-6-6-6: Thanks for the tip on bending and gluing up the homosote strips! I use every clamp I have in the house. I started on the most difficult section first, figuring that if I conquer it, then the rest will be relatively easy. I found that it is helpful to pre-bend the homosote and let it adjust for a few hours before doing the actual glue-up. It's going well. I just have to cool my jets and let the glue set up fully before continuing.
Texas Zepher: I'm happy to clarify. I meant realistic in terms of how the scenery looks. There won't be anything realisitc about the track and train system - which are antique. The track and train system I'll be using does not fit into this forum and so I really don't want to eleborate on that on-list. However: the benchwork, roadbed and scenery are topics of interest where I feel that ideas can be shared freely here. Hopefully, in those categories, I'll be able to share some experiences and give about as much as I get. But once the spline roadbed is contructed and I am ready to lay down track, I'll probably stop posting to this forum until such time as I start on the scenery. We can dialog off-list on the other stuff if you like.
GUYS: It's "Clamps Gone Wild OR Habius Clampus". I wasn't gonna show this part, but I know guys like to see what guys like to see. You may want to have a couple cold ones before you see these uncensored pics of my work-in-progress. I have posted some pics and details on my blog at:
The upper elevation loop on one dogbone end is completed and cleaned up. The top may need flattened a little before I lay track down. Next up will be the lower elevation loop on the same dogbone end. It's a broader diameter curve and is going to present some scenic challenges when I get that far.
Pics and details at: http://timmysamericanflyertrains.blogspot.com/
I have one dogbone end completed - as far as the benchwork and subroadbed are concerned. Pics and details at: http://timmysamericanflyertrains.blogspot.com/
Looks good
What is the radius of those curves?
Springfield PA
Hamltnblue: When the tracks are laid, they will be about 28-30" radius curves; tighter than I would like, but that's the best I could achieve.
Thanks,
TimboyTexas Zepher: I'm happy to clarify. I meant realistic in terms of how the scenery looks.
I'll say one thing you do nice clean work, my train room ain't never been that clean.......lol nice job so far
Texas Zepher: I'll no doubt be using foam on this layout in lots of places - especially sheer vertical rock faces where it would be difficult to hang a plaster-soaked anything. There will be some real scenic challenges for me to try to pull off to disguise and/or hide things; also some areas that need pushed back or brought forward, visually. I think track lighting will also play a key role in creating some visual illusions and effects. Lots to learn.
Allegheny2-6-6-6: Thanks! I spend time cleaning as I go - a habit I got into doing projects around the house while wife is at work, so she doesn't come home to a mess. I spent the morning yesterday cleaning and reorganizing my work space/materials to start in on the other dogbone. Just constructing the skeleton on this build is taking quite a long time. Ah well, time is what I got the most of.
I'm designing a S scale layout that will occupy most of a 80 X 40 utility room, the trick for me is to keep it simple: benchwork no wider then 32 and solid top table construction for the most part, with this much room I don't have to contend with complicated designs or double decking, I will use my time tested material of welded steel tubing for the benchwork, reducing material requirements, cost and greatly speeding up construction. I'm exploring the possibility of a mixture of handlaid turnouts and special work with flex track as an additional time saver.
Eventually I will have two branch lines, anchored by a 10 track yard between , there will be a secondary 5 track interchage yard serving an independent shortline and the U.S. Navy. I've decided to go with a point to point design after much consideration, with the modeled portions of the SP Coastline assuming a secondary importance as a feed for two reverse loops that will double as stagging . Per car movement reports, both these branches could generate 150+ loaded reefers at the height of packing season, my goal is to emulate these movements as closely as possible.
Dave
West Coast S: Cool! I hope you start a thread on this, so we can follow your progress!
What's cool is my "mood room" idea, based upon vintage photos I intend to replicate the effect of being in the valley surrounded by the Coast Range mountains, by use of a 180 degree photo backdrop and walk in secenery I hope to convey the impression of thousands of acres of orchards as far as the eye can see. Also, how about scenery you could walk over? A clear Plexiglass platform would allow me to continue the scenery onto the floor, might have to give some thought into this.
Timboy,
How about sharing some picture with us here in this thread! Frankly, I am not so keen about jumping back and forth.
Sir Madog: Hi & thanks for asking. I'm not sure what you mean about not wanting to jump back and forth (from here to where?). I have a lot of pics and details from the planning stage, through the destruction of the previous layout to the current state of the rebuild at this site: http://timmysamericanflyertrains.blogspot.com/
I am a lazy guy. I know that clicking on your link is not much of an issue, but there is a reason why I don´t like to do it. I know that MR´s pages are fairly safe, but unfortunately not all. Quite a lot of the links in here give me warnings, so that´s why I stay out of them.
Posting a picture in here is not much of an issue - this is why we have this platform - sharing our work, not only posting a link.
Just my
Sir Madog: Oh! I understand. Here are a few pics of my most recent progress.
Unfortunately, I probably won't be posting any more progress on the skeleton of my new layout. The reason is that the second dogbone will be pretty much identical to the first and all that remains after that is to connect them via a 40-foot shelf along the rear wall. When I have the entire skeleton completed, I'll post pics of that. Then will come the track-laying and I won't be posting pics of that - for reasons I stated earlier in this thread. I'll then resume with scenery building. Thanks for your interest!
Wow, Timboy - that is going to be an awesome layout! I wish I had the room for something like this! Eager to see the next report on your progress!