Scenery Advice and Tips Needed

[BigD Burbank]

Your four rules  are pretty much on the mark.  Just look around. Your yard. Your neighborhood. Your town etc. It all will tell you  what you need and where to put scenery .    I  have found numerous things in my yard and even ouside our building at work to use for scenery making. And when done,they look realistic.   I have used the cleaned and dried roots from my hot pepper plants in my garden at the end of summer to make trees and other shrubs.   Many people are amazed at the scenery on my layout.  There is no right or wrong like you said.  Just enjoy and refer back to rule #1.    Thanks from BigD Burbank

[Acela026]

steinjr

...for a total of about 64 feet.

How much ballast will I need? One bag from a hobby shop is about 18cu", and how much should I put on?  Is it any different for sidings? 

And, should I spray-paint the track brown before I lay it down?

Acela

 

[steinjr]

Acela026

Would you suggest cork roadbed or Woodland scenics "track-bed".  The track bed seems like it would be easier to work with, it comes in 24' rolls. 

Also, how many feet of it do you think I would need for the Red Wing Division?

Acela

 

 Cork or WS - matter of taste. 

 As for length:  rough estimate - one loop around a 4x8 is about 16 feet of track length (cirumference of circle with radius 24" - ie 2 * 3.14 * 24 = 150"  = abt 12 feet + 2 feet of straights along each side for a total of 4 feet).

 You got about the equivalent of 2.5 loops (16 * 2.5 = 40 feet) plus 4 tracks on the side which each is about 4 feet long (=16 feet), for a total of about 64 feet.

 2 packs of 24' long track bed is 48 feet, three is 72 feet. So up to you, either buy two packs and see how far it goes, and then buy a third pack if you need to, or buy three packs in the first place.

 Smile,
 Stein

 

 

[Acela026]

Would you suggest cork roadbed or Woodland scenics "track-bed".  The track bed seems like it would be easier to work with, it comes in 24' rolls. 

Also, how many feet of it do you think I would need for the Red Wing Division?

Acela

[Acela026]

CSXDixieLine

(and I don't like to spend a lot of it on "how to" materials when I can be buying actual stuff)

That is why I came here first!

Acela

[Acela026]

steinjr

 But ask over in the DCC forum and see what the guys over there would suggest for you.

 Smile,
 Stein

Thanks for the suggestion, I have already gotten four replies in a half hour!  Sometimes it takes me a while to understand what they say, I don't speak Technical circuitry fluently.

Acela026

 

[steinjr]

Acela026

steinjr

...and if you have a throttle you can use from either side of the table...

How much would a small, used command control system cost?  I wouldn't want a brand new one with all the bells and whistles, just a small, easy to use, inexpensive walk around (tethered or untethered, doesn't really matter ro me) system.

 

If you just will be running a single engine and don't care about sound etc, you could probably also get a simple DC (not DCC) controller with a tethered throttle on a longish cord by combining a 16V AC wall wart power supply, and a home built SCR throttle (A Silicone Controlled Rectifier to turn the AC into DC, with a center-off switch for "reverse-stop-forward" and a knob for resistance/voltage adjustment) for about $50 or so.

 I'd guess that you could get a decent quality DCC starter system with a tethered cab (like an NCE powercab) new for about $150. You put the panel at the short end of the table, leave the powercab permanently plugged into the panel, and in the default configuration have 7 feet of cable to walk around from that end to the two long sides of the table. Not the total freedom of a radio cab, but might be good enough for your use. No idea what they go for used.

 But ask over in the DCC forum and see what the guys over there would suggest for you.

 Smile,
 Stein

 

[Acela026]

steinjr

...and if you have a throttle you can use from either side of the table...

How much would a small, used command control system cost?  I wouldn't want a brand new one with all the bells and whistles, just a small, easy to use, inexpensive walk around (tethered or untethered, doesn't really matter ro me) system.

[markpierce]

leighant

I would send you to the book of REAL LIFE.  ...

Yeah, find a suitable, natural site for your inspiration.

 

 

(along Endicott Arm, Alaska)

Mark 

[steinjr]

Acela026

 

Okay - Red Wing Division.

First thing to do is to consider whether you can split the layout into two separate scenes with a viewblock down the center of the table.

 This may be possible if you have access to both sides of the layout, and if you have a throttle you can use from either side of the table - as opposed to being stuck with running your trains from one position.

 A viewblock will prevent you from seeing the loops around and around the table, and make your two scenes visually separated from each other.

Then decide what type of places/what type of landscapes you want to model, and what era you want to model. Big city is different from forested hill is different from prairie town is different from SW desert, 1940s looks different from 2010s.

Then you can e.g. look at Byron Henderson's "California Dreaming" 4x8 adaptation of the Red Wing Division at this URL: http://www.layoutvision.com/id49.html

 Note that one of the benefits of using a viewblock is that you better can control the viewing angles - so you only have to model one side of buildings and mountains or whatever - or maybe one side plus a little of the depth, not the full building.

 Good luck with your model railroad!

Smile,
Stein

 

[Hamltnblue]

Acela026

CTValleyRR

Papier mache over cardboard lattice would work fine

 

OOPS! I forgot, I have a non-waterproof plywood sheet as a base, so this method is a no-no anyway!

Acela026

If you think you'll have a problem, simply put a coat of latex paint down where you're going to do the work. It will seal the wood.

[Acela026]

So, imagine this basic idea on a forest green plywood board with the track on Cork roadbed.  I am still wiring the blocks in. 

 

 

Another question: How do you get photos in your signature?

[Acela026]

CTValleyRR

Papier mache over cardboard lattice would work fine

 

OOPS! I forgot, I have a non-waterproof plywood sheet as a base, so this method is a no-no anyway!

Acela026

[ChevelleSSguy]

flyboy10

check out bige61 on youtube he has some great vids

Ill also vote for bige61. Evert is his name and he has a lot of good and informative videos. Ill also mention another youtuber I recently found out about and has a lot of good videos that goes by the name of flymanjg.

[SpaceMouse]

CSXDixieLine

For my money (and I don't like to spend a lot of it on "how to" materials when I can be buying actual stuff), you cant beat Joe Fugate's scenery series DVDs. Take a look at these two links:

http://model-trains-video.com/volume4.php

http://model-trains-video.com/volume5.php

These videos are also available via download for about $2.00 per chapter. I have watched them over and over and always find a new tip or technique that I can use right away. I have never built a model railroad before and I can vouch for the fact that I am getting outstanding results by following his methods.

Jamie

 

 

I agree with Jamie. These videos are great. 

[Hamltnblue]

Acela026

Hamltnblue

Can you post pics of your layout?

 

I will try. Before I start though, there is still one adjustment I would like to make with the track.  I will get the photo's posted ASAP. 

Dont' worry about adjustments, it's not prom night.

You can still do the adjustment and do a before and after pic.  We like to see pics :)

 

[CTValleyRR]

Timboy

CTValleyRR:  I just love your approach and think you are well on your way to a "10 Commandments" of scenery building!  That may be worthy of it's very own thread.  May I add another point?  It would be: If you think you have it right, take a high-quality pic and look at it.  Oops.  I didn't see that.  Where did that white plaster blotch come from?

-Timboy   

You are so right!  3 years ago, I made a diorama for "Take a Model Train to Work" day.  I kind of threw it together, but was still pretty happy with the results.... so I took a bunch of pictures.  That's when I discovered that:  1) There were little white spots all over the place, and 2) The four boulders that I had glued randomly on the river bank were so evenly spaced it looked like I had measured it with a ruler.

I immediately performed what golfers call a "Mulligan".

[Acela026]

Hamltnblue

Can you post pics of your layout?

 

I will try. Before I start though, there is still one adjustment I would like to make with the track.  I will get the photo's posted ASAP. 

[Timboy]

 

[Hamltnblue]

Acela026

I will soon be starting the scenery phase of my 4x8 HO Model Railroad.  Would anyone have tips on scenery, (I.E. how to's, where and when to place buildings, etc.) or some tricks of the trade for a greenhorn model railroader.

Thank You!

Acela026

Can you post pics of your layout?  That would help a lot.

[CTValleyRR]

For your underlying terrain base, it's only cheap and easy if you rush it, and / or try to cut corners on how much you use.

Papier mache over cardboard lattice would work fine.  Personally, I prefer plaster of paris gauze to papier mache.  You can also soak shop towels in plaster, and use balled up newspaper for the forms underneath.

I have used any number of methods.  The one I like best uses extruded styrofoam insulating board to create gross / rough terrain forms (evelvation changes, mointains, etc.).  Tape balled up newspaper around this structure to make more natural looking terrain.  Cover this with sheets of newspaper, sprayed with "wet" water (water with a couple of drops of dish soap in it to break the surface tension).  This smooths out the bumpy appearance of the newspaper balls.  Then cover with plaster cloth.  After this is dry, paint with thin plaster to ensure the gauze is completely covered.

I have also used extruded foam covered with sculptamold to make terrain.  This works especially well for rugged terrain (mountains, cliffs, gorges, canyons).

[Acela026]

CTValleyRR

... but beware the "cheap and quick" method

 

I am trying to find a medium to make mountains or large hills out of.  I thought about using the Guaze and cardboard lattice method, but would paper mache over cardboard lattice work too? Or would it be a  "Cheap and Quick" method?

 

[CTValleyRR]

Here's the "ValleyRR" 4 easy rules for good scenicing:

1) Look at the world around you, either through the camera or your eyes.  That will tell you what it's supposed to look like.  You'd be amazed at the number of people -- even on these boards -- who say "that's not very realistic" when it is in fact an exact replica of something I either have a picture of or have seen with my own eyes.  Start thinking about what you see with an artist's eye.  Most trees are more than one shade of green, and most bark really isn't brown, just to give you a couple of examples.

2) The great majority of commercial scenicing materials are fine... but beware the "cheap and quick" method (grass mats, I'm thinking of you).  Commercial trees are also a potential pitfall -- a lot of the cheap ones really look like crap.  Before you buy any commercial product, refer to rule #1.

3) There are few "rights" and "wrongs" in scenery construction.  What works for some doesn't work for others.  Read a few articles, watch a few videos, visit a few websites; this will give you an idea for techniques that others have found useful, but don't be afraid to try something your own way.

4) When you're done with a project, refer back to Rule #1.  If it doesn't meet with your expectations, rip it out and try again.  If it's good enough for your needs or desires, then it is good enough, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.  It's your layout.

[Seamonster]

I'll echo what a previous poster said about the roads having a purpose and imagining how your HO people will get around by car and on foot. It's too easy to line the tracks with industries and wind up with no place for the trucks or the customers to get to them. I'm filling in an area on my N scale layout with industries now and it's a bit of a juggling act between the roads and the tracks to get logical placement for both. I had installed a grain elevator nicely beside a siding until a farmer friend reminded me that elevators are raised up about 6 feet with ramps for the farmers' trucks so that they can dump their grain into a pit inside. The two books recommended by previous posters are excellent references for scenery work. If you're going to be modelling a small town, which I suspect many of us do because we don't have the space for a city or don't want to model a city, I would recommend taking a drive into the rural area where you live and drive around a few small towns and take lots of pictures for inspiration. My wife and I enjoy spending a day driving around rural areas looking at the scenery and exploring small towns and villages. I take lots of photographs and we enjoy having lunch in a cafeteria in a small town. We frequently come across old grain elevators and abandoned branch lines or an abandoned railway station. It makes an enjoyable day for both of us and I get more ideas for my layout than I'll ever use.

[flyboy10]

check out bige61 on youtube he has some great vids

[Prowler7]

leighant

But I found a short length of single track that runs from East Dennis to a connection about a mile west near West Elm and South Kansas

 

 

That describes Olathe in general, actually.  

Kansas City has a lot of rail to model, just drive around different parts of town, take pictures if you can. Visit the old Depot in Independence, for instance.

[CSXDixieLine]

For my money (and I don't like to spend a lot of it on "how to" materials when I can be buying actual stuff), you cant beat Joe Fugate's scenery series DVDs. Take a look at these two links:

http://model-trains-video.com/volume4.php

http://model-trains-video.com/volume5.php

These videos are also available via download for about $2.00 per chapter. I have watched them over and over and always find a new tip or technique that I can use right away. I have never built a model railroad before and I can vouch for the fact that I am getting outstanding results by following his methods.

Jamie

[tgindy]

Dave Frary's superb The Pennsy Middle Division in HO Scale is now out of print, but can still be secured with an eBay search.  Here's a weblink to Dave Frary's website with downloadable PDFs, and that same book at $5.95.

Caveat - Some eBay book dealers say his books are worth $100+ - $200+! => looks like monkey-see and monkey-do on their pricing.

[leighant]

I would send you to the book of REAL LIFE.  What real railroad scenes do you know and like that would be fun to copy (rather than building a model railroad like everybody else's model railroad)?  I looked at Olathe on Google Earth.  A lot of the railroad scene is straight double track that goes on and on.  Hard to model on a 4x8.

But I found a short length of single track that runs from East Dennis to a connection about a mile west near West Elm and South Kansas, making a couple of long curves-- with residential neighborhoods bcked up to them.  Could you use that as a prototype for suburban homes backed up to your oval loop.  Making even part of your scene copy something you know is real would be beginning.