Hi,
I am currently working on my third layout and I'm begining to build the benchwork. In the past, I've used 1x4 pine boards to construct my layout. However, with the way lumber prices are nowadays, I was wondering if 1x3 furring strips are sufficient enough to support the rest of the layout?
Thanks,
Jake
Furring strips are usually some of the lowest grade lumber there is. It will almost certainly warp, twist and split. Buy quality benchwork wood. You only have to buy it once.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I agree with Dave, the 1x3s are a poor choice. I use a considerable amout of 3/4 pine in my business of kitchen and woodwork. The poor quality of #2 pine has me even using D select or c or better.
If you are looking to use a stable product for the benchwork and want to have some saving too, look into using 7 ply birch cabinet grade ply ripped to the 1x4 (3 1/2" net) If you don't want to use a Kregg pocket screw system, just fasten any end grain screws by adding a 3/4 x3/4 block. This material is superior to any #2 pine. An additional option would be to use steel studs.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
I wouldn't recommend 1x3 furring strips. If you go that route make sure that there are no wide knots or other major defects in the boards you select.
You might check "white wood" at Lowes. It's hit or miss on quality, but you might get lucky.
One of the things I do, is salvage the wood from one layout to the next. I built my last three layouts using open grid and have salvaged most of the grids and legs from each one. The pieces are in my new basement awaiting the next one. Some of the wood is 25+ years old. So buying quality can be for a long time.
Enjoy
Paul
Not being in the wood use business at all, and having no history, I'll happily defer to the other fellows' adivce about the furring strips...know nothing about them.
However, for my last layout I took my time at the pile and selected nice 10' lengths of clear spruce 1 X 4's and I ripped some of them to make 1 X 2 so that I could fashion some L-girders. Legs and bracing were ripped sections of the 1 X 4's. The construction is open frame with risers and spline roadbed. That sucker is rock solid with nothing more than the legs and 8 lag bolts keeping the four modules tightly against one another. I'll definitely use that method again in the next year or so.
Wood can be recycled, or largely trimmed and reused, but not if it is split and warped...not easily, anyway. I would cough up for some decent milled lumber or good quality ply and do the work of getting it usable.
I think it is sound advice above.
-Crandell
Years ago I learned the hard way using poor quality wood. It was on a small deck and it warped like crazy. As the others I recommend the good stuff so you do it once.
Springfield PA
#722Hi, I am currently working on my third layout and I'm begining to build the benchwork. In the past, I've used 1x4 pine boards to construct my layout. However, with the way lumber prices are nowadays, I was wondering if 1x3 furring strips are sufficient enough to support the rest of the layout? Thanks, Jake
When I started building my current layout I went out and bought 1x3 furring strips. I got most of my benchwork built that weekend-- and then watched while over the next month or so it all warped and twisted. So I ripped it all down and that was my first lesson of benchwork. I've learned some additional ones since then. About the only thing I'd recommend the furring strips for is temporary legs, and temporary joists. They warp so quick you can't even use them for straight-edges.
I hold my nose and buy the white pine. The price stinks but its better than the furring strips. But I haven't been able to bring myself to buy the fir. Perhaps I should have.
One thing though that I would recommend-- if I had it all to do over again I'd probably go that route-- is to buy several sheets of good quality 3/4 inch plywood or better, and then rip it down into 1x3 strips. Plywood is a lot more stable in all directions than dimensional lumber. So effectively you get more for the same money.
John
This is one area in my o/p that you can not skim on. Money is tight for all of us no question but this is literally the foundation for your railroad. Every penny you saved would go right out the window if something were to happen to the layout like those 1x3 legs collapsing. I had always until recently used 1x4 pine boards purchased in the big box home improvement stores, but my gripe with them is you'll spend half a day looking for straight lumber. At least around here thats pretty much the norm. So I have now opted to using 3/4" birch or oak plywood. Either one is a good choice it's been my experience that the birch for some reason is usually a cleaner piece of wood. I rip the plywood into 4" wide strips which gives you 12 8' lengths of bench work building lumber. Plywood is a better choice as it's always straight and less likely to warp. I screw and glue all my connection points. I have friends who use 1/2' plywood as a top to the bench work covered by 1/2" Homasote but again I opted to use 3/4" again. I just completed the bench work and glued down the yard pads of Homasote today for my 16'x12' yard and If I recall all the plywood for the bench work cost me less then $50
You guys might think I'm nuts, but here goes! When I retired from teaching, the first thing I did was rip up my layout and start fresh. I built a smaller layout, with an emphasis on "bullet proof" trackwork, comprised of 2X8 foot "panels" that bolt together, and can be disassembled if I move.
My benchwork is 1X4 MAPLE from Lowe's; each panel with legs cost about $70. I don't think warping, etc. will be a problem. I'm very happy with how it turned out; the four panels I've connected so far cost less than a good loco. Solid as a rock; and a good investment in my opinion. I don't think benchwork is the place to save money.
Steve
You can get good 1x4's at your local home store, no problem. The trick is to do modular construction so no board is over 4'. I just bought a pile of straight 1x4x6'. The longer the length the more chance of warp!
#722Jake
Just my opinion.
Good luck
Lee
#722 Hi, I am currently working on my third layout and I'm begining to build the benchwork. In the past, I've used 1x4 pine boards to construct my layout. However, with the way lumber prices are nowadays, I was wondering if 1x3 furring strips are sufficient enough to support the rest of the layout? Thanks, Jake
If you did it right you should have salvaged a good percentage of those 1X4s from layouts #1 and #2. When a move--I was an apartment dweller for years--required me to dismantle a layout and start afresh I always had quite a bit of lumber available to keep my benchwork expense down. Roadbed, homasote, cork, and track . . . . . . . . . . now those are horses of a different color.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Hi!
I've used 2x2s on my previous (1993-2008) and my current 11x15 two level HO layout - lots of 2x2s. You COULD use 1x3s, but I would make sure they were straight, dry, and I would screw two together (edge to side) to give it added strength. The thing is, skimping on your benchwork is going to bite you - sooner or later.
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
This might be overkill for your application, but I noticed my local Menards stocks Gorilla Shelves (racks?). These are tan enameled steel shelf risers with separate steel cross pieces (like how you'd use an L-girder). They come in at least 18-in and 36-in widths and are about $20 each and stand about 3 ft high. (I assume they're stackable.)
You could slap those babies down, attach plywood, sealed Homosote or foam to the girders and the things would probably last forever. I use 2-in foam on cheap shelf brackets so I have no experience with these things, but if I were ever to make a freestanding peninsula, I'd consider these. (Plus they would certainly survive a move, a flood, maybe even a fire...)
Just a rambling thought...
My local lumber yard has available milled 1 x 2's (which are being sold for furring strips) which I used for most all of my benchwork.
I purchase these by the 10 pack bundle and hand pick the best ones for the longer sections of the benchwork. Many of these 1 x 2's are better than the so called #1 grade lumber that costs 10 times more than my so called furring strips. The rest of the so called furring strips are cut up for the required shorter joists!
Most of the supposed good lumber at the big box stores isn't even worth being called furring strips!
I also use 7/16 OSB for the base material and Homasote tops. I build L-Girder and Open grid benchwork where needed and many of the sections for the layout are only 3 to 6 inches wide as I am building a multi-level layout (with some areas having 5 levels) thus the reason why the benchwork is so narrow in spots!
A some would say that 1x2s are not strong enough to build benchwork - I can say that I have been on a lot of my benchwork as many sections are quite wide and I have to crawl up on the benchwork to reach some track as I am building.
And I am not no light weight person - so the idea of using this size dimensional lumber won't build a strong enough layout doesn't hold water with me.
Now you have to build the benchwork like you would a house - 16" on center joists and the proper positioning of the legs.
This is where I see so many layouts fail as the owner cut corners - trying to keep from spending a lot of cash and the layout fails to remain a solid base to hold your track.
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Here in the Dessicated Desert it isn't a question of whether forest products will warp, twist or otherwise assume unuseable shapes, it's a question of how long and what the final shape will be.
Combine that with the fact that I am, at best, a mediocre woodworker.
My solution? STEEL! Heavy duty steel studs for L girders and legs, lighter studs and header stock for joists, fascia mounts and risers. They cut with tin snips, shape into almost anything with tinbender and standard vise-grips, and DON'T swell, shrink or transform themselves into corkscrews or compound bow stock. They assemble with tiny screws, and WON'T split if you don't pre-drill the screw holes.
Granted that steel is somewhat expensive. There is virtually no waste. Cut-off joist ends become risers and odd bits become brackets for attaching terminal blocks and electrical boxes to the benchwork. When wiring, the wires tuck inside the C-shaped studs and can be urged to stay there by installing short lengths of header stock. (Eliminating the subterranean spiderweb? Priceless...)
I still use some forest products: thin cookie-cut plywood for subgrade and Masonite panels for fascia and (eventually) valences. All are steel supported, and any tendency of the plywood to twist or warp is beaten into submission by screwing steel angle iron to the underside. Where does the angle iron come from? Just cut a narrow steel stud lengthwise...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on steel stud benchwork)
tomikawaTTChuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on steel stud benchwork)
I've found that working around steel studs etc. is like working around the mouth of a tiger. You are going to come away with scars. (my experience building metal framing).
yankee flyer tomikawaTTChuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on steel stud benchwork) I've found that working around steel studs etc. is like working around the mouth of a tiger. You are going to come away with scars. (my experience building metal framing). Lee
And working around wood, you are going to come away with splinters...
Having just inventoried my scars, I can't find a one caused by working with steel studs. Maybe my years as a flight line mechanic toughened my hands - or maybe it's because I turn the sharp corners in. Of course, it might be my willingness to wear gloves when actually cutting the stuff...
Scars or no, you've gotta love the dimensional stability.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I built my benchwork out of 1 x 4 Fir open grid with 2" foam. However I have built non railroad related projects out of steel studs and would not hesitate to use them on a MRR project if the climate was a consideration. I would still put foam on top of open grid. Steel studs are quite inexpensive and very lightweight. Three thing to be careful of though. Cut fingers, Cut insulation on wire ( shorting ) and when used laterally you can't let them twist or they will bend easily. This shouldn't happen once your foam or plywood is glue to the top.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Greets... I like the idea of using steel studs for benchwork and have been doing some research. Some people have been very successful with it. The top complaints I see with it are:
1) cutting is messy (metal shavings/sparks)
2) possible sharp edges can cut flesh/wires
Well, as I have been doing steel framing work and own a chop saw and other tools for working with steel studs (including a crimper) I don't have a problem with 1 or 2... obviously if you use a power tool to cut steel, use it in an area where sparks and metal shavings/particles won't be an issue and/or will be easy to clean, and of course use proper tool handling (i.e. face shield/goggles, gloves). You can use bushings and grommets in stud openings to run wires (same as you do to run cabling when framing walls). Edges can be turned, sanded somewhat, or covered with other materials.
So Chuck- where's the pictures man! We need pictures!
I've read all the reports about using expensive wood to construct your benchwork. I suppose there's some advantage to that. But I prefer to spend my money on top of the layout where I can see it!
Now, granted, there are some tricks to making cheap lumber work. And I dare say, the ripped plywood method is about as economical as you can get, provided you have a table saw and a couple of friends to help with the cutting.
But I built the frame you see above out of cheap white pine 1x3 about 20 years ago. It's a very simple L-girder design, with one 1x3 vertical screwed and glued to another that's horizontal. These are the main pieces you have to worry about. If you're selective, you can find 4 good straight ones in a bundle to use for your L girders. Once they're glued and screwed together, they're going to resist twisting. That's not to say that it can't happen, but if you get the frame together, then let it sit for a couple of weeks to dry out, you should be able to keep it pretty straight. Once the moisture content is eliminated, the wood will be more or less stable.
The main problem with these is the moisture content. One of the tricks is to buy a bundle, and leave it banded up out in the garage for a month or so. That way it can dry out some more, and the bands hold them in a semi straight condition. Yes, it saves time to buy the expensive stuff, but time I have!
The frame you see above is currently employed holding all of this together.
It takes a little effort, but a lot less money!
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
I have a small HO layout that is built from pine 1x2 s. I did this to make it lightweight and portable. Not the scrappy furring strips but the better quality 1x2s, hand selected. (I have made a lot of things out of 1x2s, such as bunk bed ladders, and railings, mirror frames, LOL) I have not had the warping issues of others mentioned so, maybe I have been lucky? Or we get quality lumber here? Or maybe I just have an eye to select good lumber?
Anyway, for the layout, the legs are 1x2 L girder with plywood gussets. The open grid is 24" with diagonal cross bracing at the corners, glued and screwed. This makes the total thickness of the grid work, an actual 1 3/4". The vertical topography of the layout is limited to 30" so I can carry the layout through a 30" door opening. To keep the "frame" from twisting, there is some vertical webbing made of 1/4" or 3/8" plywood which supports some of the cookie cutter plywood sub roadbed (the third dimension). Most of the sub road bed is supported by 1x2 risers (conventional). The rest is lots of cardboard profiles which has been plenty rigid enough to support the scenery, buildings and actually makes the layout fairly strong. No warping or breaks for 13 years but I don't climb or sit on the layout! My original thoughts years ago was to make the entire layout of cardboard. I have seen cars driven over cardboard bridges. I wasn't brave enough so I kind of compromised, combined the traditional way but using 1x2s, some plywood, and lots of cardboard.
So in the end, I think if you go with 1x2 or 1x3, be sure to brace (triangulate) in all three dimensions.
I made mine from 3/4" plywood, reinforced with 2x4. I know, the 2x4 may be overkill, but I also have a utility truck bench vise attached at one end and a bench sander at the other. I also strung wire from the electrical service panel (don't worry, one of my "careers" in my youth was an electrician). I have 4 square metal boxes wired to each end. I also made a mounting for my magnifying light that reaches past the front of the bench. Mine is also anchored to the wall and has 2x4s for legs. I tried using sawhorses, but the legs were in the way.
If you don't have access to some healthy hands (friends) to help you cut the plywood, the store will cut it down to your final size for a small fee.
I also attached a raised edge all the way around using some 1/8" strips. This keeps things from rolling off the top. The ONLY thing different I would have done would have added a chemical proof top.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Thanks everyone.
I guess that I could salvage as much of the 1x4's as I can, however my new layout will be twice the size of my "current" one. I like the idea of using 2x2's, as these can be stronger than 1x's. I guess I'll have to take a look at the local lumberyard and see what they have.
Thanks again,
I have been using steel stud benchwork for more than 8 years, using a method I first saw in the April 2000 issue of Model Railroader by Jonathan Miner. I have found it to be inexpensive, lightweight, strong, and absolutely stable. My layout is what I consider a large roomsize, built in sections with some of the sections 3' by 10'. There is very little mess, no need for a metal cutting chop saw, just tin snips, framing square, and drill driver and self-drilling screws. The panels may seem flimsy at first, but when mounted to the leg supports it is very stable and strong. I have sat on the middle of an 8' panel supported only at the ends and my 185# weight didn't bend it! One does have to use ordinary care because of possible sharp edges but no more than watching out for slivers.
My supporting framework is wood, sealed and painted, and all risers and cleats are plywood 3/4" with 5/8" sub-roadbed.
Again, I am absolutely satisfied with my choice of steel stud benchwork over the years. Summers here are humid with very dry conditions indoors in the Winter and I am impressed with the stability this methods affords.
Thanks for listening,
Bob B.
Don't use 2 x 2's. Quite frankly; in 35+ years in the construction business, I've never seen a straight 2 x 2.
Martin Myers
Well, I found some deck boards from an old deck we tore down years ago. They are 5.5"x1"x12'. I figured I could rip those down into 1x3's or x4's and use them. Plus it gets them out of my barn.
Speaking from hard learned experience, don't use furring strips. If you have a Lowe's near you, they carry a grade called Top Choice which I what I now use. The one and only time I tried to save a few pennies by using furring strips resulted in warped joists which all ended up in the bonfire for roasting marshmallows.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
The "white board" from Lowes/Home Depot works well even in 1x2 or 1x3. Good selection in all pre-cut lengths and they are relatively cheap. I've seen -0- warpage here in my damp midwestern basement. The 2x2's are a whole different story though.