OK I know this will irk a lot of folks but I'm thinking of adding slot cars to my HO layout. Reasons being: my kid likes em better than trains and I'd like to find somthing we can do together. Thw wife and I like slot cars too and there's not enough room in the basement for 2 layouts.
I see some pros and cons so I'll start with that. Pros: varies the action on the layout, sometime I just don't want to play with slow trains, adds operational realities; like keeping croosings clear for road traffic (let the slot cars run as drones) or the other way when racing cars letthe trains run as drones. Building scenery just once, less benchwork needed for one layout. I'd be building roads anyway so why not make em functional.
Cons: extra comlexity in construction especially grade crossings, noone makes actual 1/87th slot cars, vehicle path will be permanently set in stone since noone makes turnouts for slot cars, I'll probably have to make the entire roadway from scratch since I don't think the premade sections offer enough variation to accomodate the layout.
I don't think the electronics would be too hard to do, I could keep the slot cars DC though it appears that some N scale decoders could fit into a slot car meaning they can run off the same power bus. I'm aware that slot cars typically run at higher voltage than trains but they should run plenty fast still.
I'm not looking for opions on why or why not but rather how or how not. I believe that there must be some other modelers who have an affection for slot cars and maybe even some who'vebuilt what I'm thinking of. Besides Faller makes it's street system and vehicles which isn't too far removed from slot cars.
Anyone going to fess up?
Modeling the Cleveland and Pittsburgh during the PennCentral era starting on the Cleveland lakefront and ending in Mingo junction
slot cars and trains are a tough mix, for one thing the speed at which the cars go is a lot more than prototype speed. If you're going for the home built roadtrack i guess a good router is i norder as well as plenty of power bus line ( i think its how they call it, its the piece of metal that conduct electricty to the pick up shoes.) . its not impossible but its sure as hell gonna tax your patience, especially i nthe smaller size. I wouldnt recommend the grade crossing though, thats asking for a lot of complexity for something thats not gonna add a lot ( unless you have a football field size where u can have prototyp length warning distance for grade crossing )
for what its worth, if you wanna go the slot car way, build a small layout and see how easy it is to lay down your own track, in HO, u can squeeze a double track in 2 by 4... see about adding crossing and controlling at scale speed.. itll give u an idea on how easy ( or tough) it would work on the "real" thing
u might wanna try contacting cudaken, he's a bit of a slot car nut as well
hope that helps
Yes the difference in speed is quite apparent but that's one of the pros, varying the pace of action. As for power pickup, it seems that the folks scratchbuilding slot track use copper tape, maybe not the most durable thing but easy to work with. On the issue of horns at grade crossings, folks do that with inanimate grade crossings now so what difference does it make? Heck operators even try to discourage blocking those same inanimate crossings, with road traffic it just gets more interesting and important. And yes a router or rotozip would be a good idea, I was thinking of a jigsaw but that would probably be unweildly.
Lee
Ever since slot cars were introduced, there were attempts to integrate them into train layouts. The first one to market slot cars was Lionel in 1912, but they disappeared after only a few years.
(Picture source: Wikipedia)
Trains in those days were still more fashionable The 1950´s brought the slot car back, in various scales, down to something close to HO scale. "HO scale" slot cars are closer to 1/76 or even S scale, than HO. Slot cars being oversized, the unsightly slot in the road and the too fast movement prevented the establishment of "moving cars" on layouts. The lack of turnouts added to that . The introduction of Faller´s car system changed that, but even with this sophisticated system, the cars´ movement is rather abrupt. Too much action on a layout distracts the viewer from the trains. In the Miniatur Wunderland, their cars get more recognition than the trains!
In my youth days, you either had a train set, or you were into slot cars. A friendly co-existence was a rare bird. Most "serious" modelers will probably bat an eyebrow at the OP´s wish to add a slot car track to his layout, but it is his layout, and, after all "Model Railroading is Fun!" - even if it includes slot cars!
ruder-
When I was using HO, I had a small Aurora Model Motoring circuit (road) in my train layout. Not really as big a deal as you might think. There were and I guess are HO car / train crossing sections if you wanted then and you can still get "basic" parts / track on eBay without breaking the back too much.
As far as setting the HO track in the layout, you can either route out a 1/4" deep x 3" wide trench for the track to sit in or just lay it on top and get creative with blending the raised edges into the terrain. Use of guard rails works wonders with that.
As far as prototypical auto speeds, that has to be something you have to figure out. Since you're doing this for your kids, "prototypical" may not be a concern and I think if you get the right components and know how to "tweak" the cars, you should be able to get them pretty close - providing you don't try to actually race them!
Archer
Those Aurora sets from the 60's seemed to be more oriented towards scale modeling than racing - they even had dual pins and could run in reverse. The steering wheel-shaped controller also wasn't oriented towards racing the cars. Plus I seem to recall they had road/road crossings as well as road/rail - and I sort of think they had traffic lights for the roads.
And then there was the Tyco USA 1 Truckign sets, they also were set up to simulate roads and so forth and weren't really for racing. They had THREE pins on the semis, two on the tractor and 1 on the trailer, so you could back them up through the 'turnouts' into that various loaders and unloaders. Skip the out of scale operating accessories and it's pretty much a scale speed trucks on the highway set, also with road/rail crossings.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The HO Aurora "Model Motoring" sets were awesome. The cars and trucks were highly detailed. They had a catalog/flyer how to combine trains and slot cars. I wanted to do it but didn't have the money then. I remember when they came out with the Ford Mustang, every kid on the block wanted to first to own one. If memory serves me right, those little slot cars were about $4.00 each which was alot for a 11 year old...what memories.........................
Yeah I know that "HO" slot cars are closer to "S" trains but thats a compromise I'm willing to live with. And yes the older cars were more detailed and closer to scale than the newer stuff, we are starting to collect the reissues of the Thunderjet cars while the brother in law has a collection of about 100 originals, with no place to run em.
As for grade crossings, I purchased a couple sections of premade crossings but when adding the turns to enable a crossing it end up way too wide for my planned benchwork. Also the limitations of 45 or 90 degree turns, fixed radius and lengths of straight track make a pleasing roadway impossible. Just like the sectional vs flextrack in trains.
In thinking about making the roadway I'm going to try something like a cookie cutter arrangement. Try this on for size guys: using 1/4" masonite do cookie cutter patterns for the roadway using one layyer for a base and adding the second layer to groove out. This will be flexible enough to make rolling hills in the road and I can make the radius of the turns any number I want as long as the cars will traverse it (3" minimum?)
Regarding the grade crossings: I figure I'll have to cut through the rails to allow the cars guide pin to pass which means adding jumper wires across the gaps, thats easy enough. And the same for the road which is also no big deal. I think the hard part will be keeping large enough clearances for the flangeways and keep them samll enough to not catch the guidepins. I guess it comes down to the directional stability of the slot cars. I have seen some slot cars that use a guide "flag" instead of a pin, maybe that would help if I can retrofit such a thing.
I hapen to have an open area of scenery on my current layout that would be an excellent place to try this. If it doesn't work then thats fine since this layout is doomed anyway.
Realizing the poor power pickup of slot cars versus trains I think I'll scratch the dcc slot car idea for now.
Another option is the Faller Car System. The cars are battery-powered (rechargeable) and operate at a constant speed, but you control their path with wires buried in the "pavement." They do have turnouts, and they can be set up to stop at crossings, or even for traffic lights. They are basically for continuous-running and display. They're not "race cars."
The drawback is the high cost, but for those interested in integrating cars and trains in HO or N, it's an interesting possibility.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Space ...the final frontier ...oops ...different subject.
Actually, you must have the layout space, for trains and/or slot cars to do it right. For example, how much space alone, is required to satisfy the minimum radius for R-T-R 90-degree turns & meaningful roadways, without scratchbuilding the slot car system?
Back in the day, I had an HO Scale layout, and a separate 1/32 slot car layout, even properly banked curves with the flexible masonite-type roadway, plus the basement space to handle it all.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
I'm pretty much resigned to scratchbuilding the road. The premade sections are just too limiting and would require significantly wider benchwork than I want. Just for the record the planned layout will be 24" shelf around the wallsand peninsula nolix making 2 levels and an approximate 300' mainline run. So I'm looking at the potential for 600' of slot track if I make a continuous loop.
Either way thats a lot of track to acquire premade.
The Faller system is interesting but has a few drawbacks for me: cost ouch, slow vehicles without ability to race, mostly (exclusivly?) German prototypes. The automation is neat though.
I have an abundance of ho trainset power packs so I could use one for each "lane" of road which gives the option of changing direction of travel and set and forget speed control. They would be a bit awkward for racing though and there won't be one place wher a driver can stand and watch the entire track. I'll have to do some sort of wireless DC cab or maybe block control. Wireless DCC would be best for this as it has those abilities already.
As far as my proposed construction methods, it sounds like I've got confirmations that this will work. How problematic was it? Any "gotchas"?
1) Enjoy.
2) The kids are just gonna wait for a train at a crossing and "nail" it :). I remember having more fun crashing trains and slot cars than running them when I was a kid. Heck I remember the slot cars (or were they?), anyway the "smashem up derby set" where the cars would hit each other and explode apart because the body parts were all held together under spring tension until the "hit" at which point everything was released.
3) Enjoy.
If your looking at it strictly from the family fun perspective then I say sure why not go for it. The more fun you can have as a family the better in my book but. if your looking at it form the model railroaders point of view there is nothing that could make your model railroad look less realistic possibly a close second would be floating a model boat in some real water. Seen it done and man was it bad....lol. It's your railroad so do with it what you like thats the bottom line but how "real" can it look with that slot running down the middle of the road?
Yeah I realize that the kids will have some fun doing a "Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry" but I have to admit I might do it too! Especially if I get a yellow Charger...
Family fun is what this is all about.
As for realism going out the window, IDK how bad it would be. Sure the cars would be out of proportion and the slot down the road takes away some but, so do radii under 60" and selctive compression etc that is in use on model RR. BTW next time you're at the LHS check out the slot car mags, they have some impressive scenery mostly done with mrr kits and supplies. Even if slots aren't your cup of tea the do have some scratch building/detailing articles that can be useful on a layout.
That said I think I have some shopping to do for this weekend and a little project to work on
Oh I agree whole heatedly that slot cars are way cool. We have HO slot cars well me and my 7 year old well ok they were my Christmas present but we share. I have looked up some of the cars on line and man a lot of way cool stuff and brother if you thought trains were expensive them little cars run a close second. Hey it's all supposed to be fun and enjoyable even if your a rivet counter. It's all about what works for u.
Yeah some slot car stuff can get pricey but compare a decent HO slot car at $15-$20 versus a mega cheap loco for $25 or a good loco for $60. One thing that surprises me on slot cars is how much the track costs, about $5/foot versus HO code 100 at less than $1/foot though specialty track for slots doesn't cost too much more unlike specilty rails.
I was hoping to do some tinkering with this over the weekend but it looks like I'll be stuck working. bummer.
Just a quick reply, Aurora did make turnouts for Slot Cars. You can still find them on ebay I even figured out a way to automate them. Never tried it on a layout, but I did make a protoype and it worked fine. George
Modeling the B&O in the 50-60's
Slot car turnouts huh? You say you made one? Was it a major project? Maybe I'll have to check Fleabay to see what these are about...
I am 60 yrs old and I have a HO train/HO slot car layout. My grandkids enjoy them and so do I. Each are controlled separately as I purchased the lifelike train/car intersection. Even though the scales do not match, I could cover up the car track with temporary track for a more realistic look with scale appropriate cars. The main focus for me is to have fun with the kids. Purists can make their layouts for adults only. Having a "kid's heart" is more to my liking.
I use the Faller system and am very satisfied with it:http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=3688 However, you don't really drive the cars unless you fit them with a control system like DCCar.
If you want to use slot cars on an HO layout, 1960s vintage Aurora Thunderjets are closer to HO scale than the later models are. I don't know whether you could get better speed control with them if you used a contemporary power pack with pulse width modulation, but you might be able to, since the T-jets use a 3-pole DC motor.
Good luck, and thanks for reading MR!
Terry
Speed control is likely to be an issue mainly due to power pickup. Slots are worse than an 0-4-0t when it come to gaps in track. That's why for starters I'll run DC power for the slots as it's more forgiving. But I'd love to be able to run em off my dcc system which of course allows speed matching, programable power curves, potential BEMF and wireless control among other goodies.
So what are tricks for overcoming poor power pickup and it's effects on DCC operation? I figure tricks for small locos would be appropriate for this as well. The biggest killers are going to be the gaps at road/rail crossings as I'm figuring about an 1/8th" gap on each side of the rails in order to prevent shorting anything. Do capacitors help?
It seems like adding DCC to a slot car wouldn't be too difficult as the frames are plastic so I just ned to insulate the pickup shoes from the motor and there's usually plenty of space in a shell to place the decoder, a small one anyways. I wouldn't need anyhting fancy either, motor only would be adequate.
Neat idea!
I remember thinking through how to combine AFX with model trains as a teenager and at other times through the years. The stumbling block was always how to cross railway tracks at grade. Walthers/Life Like have solved the problemfor their system, unfortunately a view of their website today, revealed that the track crossing part is out of stock with an unknown re-release date. One positive was that you can view a photo of the part and also download a pdf of instructions which shows some more close ups to aid with custom making your own crossings.
As far as making your own track goes I would suggest using polypropylene sheets of the right thickness to suit the slot car guide pins which you can then rip down to make the various road widths with a reinforcing sheet under. For the curves and other custom locations you could then rout the guide chanels using either a 1/4 inch router or a Dremel router with a 3mm or 1/8th bit [variable speed would also be very handy] and a tremel beam or guide bush set up to form the curved guide channel for the slot cars as well as the inside and outside edges of the roadway.
I would also suggest making a proof of concept module to work out the bugs in the system as well as to sharpen your skillset before making the layout roadway.
Mark
Actually I was kicking around the proof of concept idea for the grade crossings and had an AH HA! moment. As I was looking at my trains, slot cars, sections of rail and a premade grade crossing I realized that mr wheel flanges don't exted below the surface nearly as far as the slot car guide pins do. So why couldn't I make a full slot through the rails with just a couple small notches for the flanges?
This should handily solve the problem of the guide pins getting caught in the flangeways at a crossing and the trains shouldn't be bothered at all. Probably make it from styrene.
Also why the reccomendation for polypropelene sheets? What advantage does it have over masonite? Where would I find it?
I need to get some styrene for building a prototype crossing since it would probably be easier to work with to do small details at the crossing.
I have to admit, this has been much better recievd than I thought. Thanks guys.
I think that making a proof of concept prototype out of styrene would be a good way to start given that you are familiar with working with it.
I suggested polypropylene sheets as they are cheaper than styrene given the estimated quantity of track required and are moisture resistant unlike Masonite. As for where to obtain the sheets I would suggest checking your local yellow pages for plastic suppliers. The poly is also more flexible than styrene for a given thickness which will make handling easier and means it will conform to your layout better.
I think that there will be a lot of interested people following your progress, myself included.
ruderunner OK I know this will irk a lot of folks but I'm thinking of adding slot cars to my HO layout. Reasons being: my kid likes em better than trains and I'd like to find somthing we can do together. Thw wife and I like slot cars too and there's not enough room in the basement for 2 layouts. I see some pros and cons so I'll start with that. Pros: varies the action on the layout, sometime I just don't want to play with slow trains, adds operational realities; like keeping croosings clear for road traffic (let the slot cars run as drones) or the other way when racing cars letthe trains run as drones. Building scenery just once, less benchwork needed for one layout. I'd be building roads anyway so why not make em functional. Cons: extra comlexity in construction especially grade crossings, noone makes actual 1/87th slot cars, vehicle path will be permanently set in stone since noone makes turnouts for slot cars, I'll probably have to make the entire roadway from scratch since I don't think the premade sections offer enough variation to accomodate the layout. I don't think the electronics would be too hard to do, I could keep the slot cars DC though it appears that some N scale decoders could fit into a slot car meaning they can run off the same power bus. I'm aware that slot cars typically run at higher voltage than trains but they should run plenty fast still. I'm not looking for opions on why or why not but rather how or how not. I believe that there must be some other modelers who have an affection for slot cars and maybe even some who'vebuilt what I'm thinking of. Besides Faller makes it's street system and vehicles which isn't too far removed from slot cars. Anyone going to fess up?