I am thinking about a different locale which would be much easier for me to detail well, as it is the area I currently live in - the Bradford / Newmarket / Aurora corridor. It was originally the first Grand Trunk line in Canada, then taken over by CN and now run by GO Transit - commuter passenger service. I would model from Bradford (GO Train Staging in real life), main section of 72" x 30" and 60" x 24" of Newmarket with both the new GO Station and old Grand Trunk station as well as part of Main Street, a section of 60" x 30" for Aurora and then some hidden staging to represent Toronto for GO trains. The era would be present, so freight traffic is limited to a few local industries - a Magna Auto parts plant at the south end of Newmarket and one or two industries in Aurora. I would have a drop-in to run continuous when needed, otherwise operation would be GO train from Toronto staging to Bradford and back, and freight would be various to and from industries. It would allow a large focus on detailed modeling of Newmarket area. Thoughts?
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AralaiI am thinking about a different locale which would be much easier for me to detail well, as it is the area I currently live in - the Bradford / Newmarket / Aurora corridor. It was originally the first Grand Trunk line in Canada, then taken over by CN and now run by GO Transit - commuter passenger service. I would model from Bradford (GO Train Staging in real life), main section of 72" x 30" and 60" x 24" of Newmarket with both the new GO Station and old Grand Trunk station as well as part of Main Street, a section of 60" x 30" for Aurora and then some hidden staging to represent Toronto for GO trains. The era would be present, so freight traffic is limited to a few local industries - a Magna Auto parts plant at the south end of Newmarket and one or two industries in Aurora. I would have a drop-in to run continuous when needed, otherwise operation would be GO train from Toronto staging to Bradford and back, and freight would be various to and from industries. It would allow a large focus on detailed modeling of Newmarket area. Thoughts?
I am thinking about a different locale which would be much easier for me to detail well, as it is the area I currently live in - the Bradford / Newmarket / Aurora corridor. It was originally the first Grand Trunk line in Canada, then taken over by CN and now run by GO Transit - commuter passenger service.
I would model from Bradford (GO Train Staging in real life), main section of 72" x 30" and 60" x 24" of Newmarket with both the new GO Station and old Grand Trunk station as well as part of Main Street, a section of 60" x 30" for Aurora and then some hidden staging to represent Toronto for GO trains.
The era would be present, so freight traffic is limited to a few local industries - a Magna Auto parts plant at the south end of Newmarket and one or two industries in Aurora.
I would have a drop-in to run continuous when needed, otherwise operation would be GO train from Toronto staging to Bradford and back, and freight would be various to and from industries. It would allow a large focus on detailed modeling of Newmarket area. Thoughts?
I'd say that both the number and size of scenes and the chosen theme sounds both very realistic and very fun!
Btw - if your GO trains are push/pull train sets, you could possibly also do continuous run in pendulum mode for display running too - sensors by track to stop the trains and after a while send them off in opposite direction.
Smile,Stein
steinjrI'd say that both the number and size of scenes and the chosen theme sounds both very realistic and very fun! Btw - if your GO trains are push/pull train sets, you could possibly also do continuous run in pendulum mode for display running too - sensors by track to stop the trains and after a while send them off in opposite direction.
They are push/pull - and that is a great idea! Thanks.
Btw - maybe not directly applicable to your layout, since you will be basing your tracks on prototype locations, but here is a track plan I drew up a year ago or so to aide a discussion on some standard tricks I would consider to fit in industries etc on a bedroom sized donut style layout.
As always - it is not a great work of art - but it may illustrate some concepts.
steinjr What I have done: 1) I decided that I was designing the layout for train lengths of one GP7 + 8 40' cars 2) I decided that I was designing the layout for 1-3 operators 3) Basic idea is from HOG (Hearth of Georgia) "better beginner layout", ie donut shaped layout with operator in pitnarrow benchwork, wide pittwo passing sidings curving around opposite cornersfairly gentle (25-27" radius) curves on the main 4) Let access track go behind industries, but not places where you need to couple/uncouple 5) Keep most track within 20" of the operator's edge - ie reachable This would look the best if you get it up fairly high, so you look in on the layout instead of down on the layout. Some points I wanted to illustrate: A: Primary Yard lead - preferably long enough to pull an entire track B: Two A/D tracks long enough for a standard train - w/engine escape between them C: Two classification tracks for primary yard operator D: Either secondary yard lead, part of runaround or third class track for primary yard operator E: Four shorter class tracks for secondary yard operator - or caboose, RIP & engine service F: First passing siding - long enough to let a train of engine + 8 cars take the siding G: Second passing siding - long enough to let a train of engine + 8 cars take the siding The latter siding also is part of the access to three of the industries (3, 6 and 7) - note that you can let industry tracks cross each other in a diamond, or run off the end of the siding to save space.Edit: I forgot a crossover rightwards from the main to the uppermost A/D track - coming in just to the right of the engine escape crossover between the two A/D tracks. It is desirable to have a way to get a train going counterclockwise into the yard or staging, or a train going clockwise out of the yard/staging, without having to back the train up to get out on or in from the main.Notes on industries: 1: Team track (train to truck unloading) - probably will want fairly frequent switching. Can be tucked away in a corner of the yard 2: Some kind of fenced yard type industry - observe position between main and operator pit. Allows trains on main to pass behind industry. If necessary the industry can be imagined to be "in the pit" - with just the siding between the main and the pit. 3: Longish and narrow industry, track on pit side of industry. Functions as a view block - you cannot see the entire train waiting in the double ended siding. Benchwork (and industry) could be made wider here. 4 & 5 : industry flats up against a backdrop - you can have several industries on the same track. Putting the track up against the backdrop and having industries just 1-2" deep works well - because you are probably primarily interested in what is going on at the track, not in what the opposite end of the factory looks like. 6: if you want some kind of tipple loader - make sure there is enough room beyond the loader to shove some empty cars past the loader - and then pull them out again past the loader while they are being loaded. To load 3 cars, you need space for 5 - 2 before the loader, 1 under the loader, 2 after the loader. Two under tipple tracks probably will be enough - one for leaving 3 empty cars, one for picking up 3 filled cars. 7: Track can go into buildings or under the front of building - as in by a covered loading dock. 8: A building can be used to hide the sneakoff to staging from being too obvious 9: Hidden staging track w/access from the backside. Each staging track can hold two trains during a session without any need for fiddling trains in staging : one train that leaves the staging track to arrive on the layout, and one train that leaves the layout to arrive at the staging track. Just intended as a handful of potensially helpful hints - obviously you don't have to apply any of these tricks to your design, but if you see something you like, just grab it - I have pinched every one of these ideas from other and better designers over time :-)
What I have done:
1) I decided that I was designing the layout for train lengths of one GP7 + 8 40' cars
2) I decided that I was designing the layout for 1-3 operators
3) Basic idea is from HOG (Hearth of Georgia) "better beginner layout", ie
4) Let access track go behind industries, but not places where you need to couple/uncouple
5) Keep most track within 20" of the operator's edge - ie reachable
This would look the best if you get it up fairly high, so you look in on the layout instead of down on the layout.
Some points I wanted to illustrate:
A: Primary Yard lead - preferably long enough to pull an entire track B: Two A/D tracks long enough for a standard train - w/engine escape between them C: Two classification tracks for primary yard operator D: Either secondary yard lead, part of runaround or third class track for primary yard operator E: Four shorter class tracks for secondary yard operator - or caboose, RIP & engine service F: First passing siding - long enough to let a train of engine + 8 cars take the siding G: Second passing siding - long enough to let a train of engine + 8 cars take the siding
The latter siding also is part of the access to three of the industries (3, 6 and 7) - note that you can let industry tracks cross each other in a diamond, or run off the end of the siding to save space.
Edit: I forgot a crossover rightwards from the main to the uppermost A/D track - coming in just to the right of the engine escape crossover between the two A/D tracks. It is desirable to have a way to get a train going counterclockwise into the yard or staging, or a train going clockwise out of the yard/staging, without having to back the train up to get out on or in from the main.
Notes on industries:
1: Team track (train to truck unloading) - probably will want fairly frequent switching. Can be tucked away in a corner of the yard
2: Some kind of fenced yard type industry - observe position between main and operator pit. Allows trains on main to pass behind industry. If necessary the industry can be imagined to be "in the pit" - with just the siding between the main and the pit.
3: Longish and narrow industry, track on pit side of industry. Functions as a view block - you cannot see the entire train waiting in the double ended siding. Benchwork (and industry) could be made wider here.
4 & 5 : industry flats up against a backdrop - you can have several industries on the same track. Putting the track up against the backdrop and having industries just 1-2" deep works well - because you are probably primarily interested in what is going on at the track, not in what the opposite end of the factory looks like.
6: if you want some kind of tipple loader - make sure there is enough room beyond the loader to shove some empty cars past the loader - and then pull them out again past the loader while they are being loaded. To load 3 cars, you need space for 5 - 2 before the loader, 1 under the loader, 2 after the loader. Two under tipple tracks probably will be enough - one for leaving 3 empty cars, one for picking up 3 filled cars.
7: Track can go into buildings or under the front of building - as in by a covered loading dock.
8: A building can be used to hide the sneakoff to staging from being too obvious
9: Hidden staging track w/access from the backside. Each staging track can hold two trains during a session without any need for fiddling trains in staging : one train that leaves the staging track to arrive on the layout, and one train that leaves the layout to arrive at the staging track.
Just intended as a handful of potensially helpful hints - obviously you don't have to apply any of these tricks to your design, but if you see something you like, just grab it - I have pinched every one of these ideas from other and better designers over time :-)
I had been drawing a design like this today, I would have tried at all cost to have wider aisles - that 18" space on the back by the staging in the plan above is really asking for trouble.
Grin, Stein
Some updated measurements for sections:
1. GO Train Staging - Bradford - 36" x 30" with at least 3 sidings off the main line - each siding would hold about 2 of the Bombardier GO coaches or one coach and GP40 loco. Maybe 3 at a squeeze. (GO Train is made up of GP40 and three coaches - well technically two coaches and a control car. Total length of train is approx 35" plus GP40.
2. Newmarket - two sections - L shaped. One section - 84" x 30" - includes existing GO Station & Platform - level crossing across Davis Drive and old Grand Trunk station, as well as Fairy Lake and Main Street. Second Section - round bend of "L" - 48" x 24" - level crossing at Mulock St and Magna Auto parts plant with siding.
3. Transition section of 42" x 24" thru countryside towards Aurora.
Edited: as we speak the transition section is getting eaten up by a siding and industry :)
4. Aurora - Two sections in an L Shape - One Section - 36" x 18" has siding to industrial plant. This siding enters the plant and from there curves into hidden staging siding representing Toronto. Siding will be hidden behind backdrop. Siding length - Hidden = 60" plus. Visible = approx 30" from frog to building entry. Second Aurora section around bend of 'L' - in front of backdrop that hides staging siding - 48" x 24" - this section has Wellington Street level crossing, Aurora GO Station (former Grand Trunk Station). Line terminates at end of bench.
A Drop-in can be placed so the hidden staging siding can continue and hook up to the Newmarket loop, or as pointed out by stein - an option to run pendulum mode for the GO Trains.
Working on the layout.
Stein - I like the layout. Advantage to have a passageway to get behind the staging tracks. Disadvantages to me - less backdrop around whole layout, plus I was planning to multi-use the room by storing boxes under the bench - still would work but not as neat I suppose. Gets me thinking out of the box though - and that's good. (Actually looking at my plan, I can access my hidden staging siding from the back end of my furnace / water heater. A bit difficult but could be done in case of trouble. I guess alternatively a lift-out section of backdrop would be pretty easy to do, so could access from other side.
AralaiStein - I like the layout. Advantage to have a passageway to get behind the staging tracks. Disadvantages to me - less backdrop around whole layout, plus I was planning to multi-use the room by storing boxes under the bench - still would work but not as neat I suppose. Gets me thinking out of the box though - and that's good....
Stein - I like the layout. Advantage to have a passageway to get behind the staging tracks. Disadvantages to me - less backdrop around whole layout, plus I was planning to multi-use the room by storing boxes under the bench - still would work but not as neat I suppose. Gets me thinking out of the box though - and that's good....
Was not intended as a layout for you - but I thought it possible that you could use some of the track planning tricks as part of your design for your layout like:
- tracks going behind or into buildings, - staging, - sidings designed to fit trains length, - locating scenes with passing tracks in the opposite corners, so you don't see them both at once from inside the operator pit, - using crossings and special turnouts to get two industry tracks into the same area
Stuff like that. But I think you will be better off starting your design from the prototype, and only retort to "modeling tricks" if you can't make the prototype design work.
Smile, Stein
Yes - all good ideas which I will definitely incorporate. Thanks!
Bought my GO Transit GP40 loco and coaches today! They look awesome - just like the real thing! Feeling better about deciding to go with the Newmarket locale and the space is looking much better too...
OK - here is my new layout. It will run point to point using hidden Toronto Staging behind backdrop as GO Transit Commuter train from Toronto, stopping at Aurora, Newmarket and terminating at the Bradford Yard and back using push/pull as per the prototype.
Freight is local to several industries - Rimply Mfg in Newmarket, an additional industry (need to research what it was in 1989), and industry in Aurora, which serves as the hidden entry to the Toronto Staging sidings - 1 for GO train and 1 for freight.
Bradford Yard has 5 sidings for GO trains and freight.
The Aurora line ends normally after the track crosses Yonge Street on a bridge. A drop-in can be placed to allow continuous loop operation. A hidden siding under the Newmarket Cemetary completes the loop. This siding is hidden from view by trees and foliage.
Let me know what you think...
AralaiOK - here is my new layout. It will run point to point using hidden Toronto Staging behind backdrop as GO Transit Commuter train from Toronto, stopping at Aurora, Newmarket and terminating at the Bradford Yard and back using push/pull as per the prototype.Freight is local to several industries - Rimply Mfg in Newmarket, an additional industry (need to research what it was in 1989), and industry in Aurora, which serves as the hidden entry to the Toronto Staging sidings - 1 for GO train and 1 for freight.Bradford Yard has 5 sidings for GO trains and freight.The Aurora line ends normally after the track crosses Yonge Street on a bridge. A drop-in can be placed to allow continuous loop operation. A hidden siding under the Newmarket Cemetary completes the loop. This siding is hidden from view by trees and foliage. Let me know what you think...
Main part of layout looks doable.
But I believe that the yard on the lower left has way too optimistic turnouts (yard ladder is way too short).
Try drawing up a no 4 turnout (smallest advisable - diverges from main at 1:4 - one unit to the side for every 4 forward). As a quick rule of thumb (not accurate - you can cut down a bit, but good enough for rough estimates), for 2" between tracks, it takes 8" along one track for the track to cross over to the other track .
Four turnouts one after the other would create a yard ladder that is 4x8 = 32" long - almost three feet.Yours is drawn as taking about 1 foot. Way too optimistic.
Here is a sketch of a pretty minimal yard ladder for short staging (cars shown are 80 foot passenger cars, engine GP40-2):
Note that even for a configuration like this, the yard ladder takes about 2 feet.
Try to move Bradford right (closer to the layout operator pit edge), and see if you can run staging up along the wall behind Bradford
hi Aralai
nice trackplan, gives a real good impression about your intentions. Some remarks:
all your switches seem to be drawn optimistic by hand. A #4 switch must be about 8" long to get a 2" spacing (4x2=8), so passing sidings are may be shorter then you think. A little bit of fine-tuning is needed, the basic idea is great.
I like the staging were it is, you can reach into the backside.
Your long passanger cars and modern? freightcars would love an even higher numbered switch, at least on the main. A #6 switch is about 12" long, you'll have to find out what is best for you.
The second crossover on Mulock is not really necessarily, an extra spur to serve the other plant?.
The junction between Bradford and the drop-in could be near Davis, creates more length for the yard. Adding a (imagined) connection south of Bradford can add some more freight switching.
Your tracks are kept far away from the pit everywhere. A little bit of variation would ......... again only some fine tuning to do.
Am I right? One of the hidden tracks is for staging the other an industrial spur? Nice solution; Stein used a road overpass to camouflage the entrance.
Good luck, have fun
Paul
Aralai,
I tried to put your ideas into a track plan. Could that be a basis for your thoughts?
It is much easier to discuss on the basis of a workable track plan...
For my taste, there need to be some more spurs added - for better operation.
Edit:
...and here is the plan with some minor modifications:
Edit no. 2:
PM me your e-mail address if you want me to send you the RTS-file!
Thanks for the feedback. Yes - the switches are hand-drawn and I will need to fix them and adjust the layout. So for 85 feet coaches, would a #6 switch work ok? I am not that familiar with switch sizes.
Yes - the Bradford Yard needs to be longer - thanks for the feedback on that too. The extra turnout at Mulock is to serve the industry there, I actually added the part that made the track a passing siding - I believe originally there were only two sidings into the plants - I am still researching.
I may have to lose an element to give me more room - I really want some space between Newmarket and the Bradford Yard, and my train platform at Newmarket has to fit the train which is 43" long!
Some adjusting will need to be done. Maybe I can move everything clockwise - place the Aurora GO Station closer to the Yonge Street bridge and shift things to give me more space where I need it.
No. 6 turnouts should be ok with almost any loco or rolling stock, unless you plan to operate a UP 9000 steamer or a similar monster.
The plan I have drawn is based on the Atlas No. 6 "Super-Switch", minimum radius on the main is 24", the upper right spur has a radius of 18" and the lower right one of 22.5". You should not have any problems running a 6-axle Diesel or normal steamer over this layout.
I you could squeeze out an extra foot to make the yard trackage longer certainly would enhance the operation. Just give me your feedback and I´d be happy to make the changes!
Aralaiwould a #6 switch work ok? I am not that familiar with switch sizes
Hi Aralai,
to find out you have to experiment. Do you have allready bought switches? I once bought two(left) #4, two(right) #6 and made crossovers just to find out. Sometimes snaptrack comes handy. Especially when pushing ^#6's will make the difference. When S-curves and pushing are involved, as with crossovers, even a #8 should be considered; but this applies only to track where you run your coaches (or modern autoracks). In another thread "yardladder" ,still on page 1, the space a yardladder takes was discussed.
John Armstrong the dean of modelrailroading liked to speak about standards.
Freight only branches need a 18"mainline radius and #4 or #5(S-curves)switches.
Moderate mainlines, with short passanger coaches need a 24"radius and #5 and #6 switches.
Modern mainlines need 30"radius with #6 and #8 switches.
He always stressed that you had to develop your own set of standards, usualy later you found out he was right after all.
I will be operating the GO Train in push/pull mode, and the coaches are the Ahearn Bombardier B-Level coaches - 85 feet. The wheel flanges seem so shallow compared to my old stuff, and the cars are pretty light. When looking at them my first impression was that if the track is not laid just right, I am going to have derailing problems, especially if they are being pushed through a switch, so I need to make sure it is done right.
AralaiThe wheel flanges seem so shallow compared to my old stuff,
Dear Aralai, it's not the size of the flanges that matters it's the form, so don't worry.
Aralaithe cars are pretty light.
there are NMRA standards for weight versus length; you can add weight if needed. I run only 40 and 50 foot long freightcars, I have no good idea about your coaches. For shorter cars it's 1 ounce for every 10 scale foot; with a 3.5 min. A 40 foot car should be 4 ounces; a new thread?
As far as i can see your coaches never have to negotiate S-curves, #6"s with a 24"radius will do a great job, the only problem is Mulock. The main is now (on Ulrich's plan) right in front of the factory. You'll have to lengthen the spur to serve both factory's.
have fun and good luck
OK - I took Ulrich's modifications to my plan and tweaked it a bit.I flipped the siding at the bottom right to face the other way, as I need to model a street and bridge at the bottom toward the center.
I struggled with the passing siding at the middle top. I wanted to keep it, but I am also trying to keep true to prototype and that is where my main street has a level crossing and it is single track there. It would have been nice to have operationally, but then I would have to change too much from the real world.
I extended the track at top right and bottom left - thought it might be good to have them go off somewhere to give a better feeling of distance. I am much happier with the yards the way they are now - thanks!
I need to overlay my streets and buildings to make sure that there are no major issues. Let me know what you think of the track plan though...
Aralai I struggled with the passing siding at the middle top. I wanted to keep it, but I am also trying to keep true to prototype and that is where my main street has a level crossing and it is single track there. It would have been nice to have operationally, but then I would have to change too much from the real world.
Dear Aralai,
two short remarks.
You introduced two S-curves in Mulock, your coaches will not look right there; you can keep the upper track and let the lower track begin beyond the crossing.
I feel you really need a passing track, unless you run only one train at a time. The one you have now seems to be very short indeed. You can make the passing track longer, even as far as the drop-in, and you could add a crossover just before entering the hidden section. May be i am wrong here, but i my memory you wanted to use the lowest two tracks, just before the drop in, for staging.
Stein had on his thread a discussion with Cuyama, about conflicting prototype and modelling-needs.
Have fun, good luck
@ Paul - you are right about the staging tracks. The lower one stops at the edge of the bench and the middle one also stops there - except when the drop-in is in place. Both are hidden behind the backdrop.
I will probably be only running one train at a time most of the time, but it would be nice to have the passing track. Do you mean to keep the mainline straight across the top and get rid of the siding and switch to the left and just keep the one to the right starting from a switch to the right of the crossing?
OK - updated the plan...
Dear Aralai'
yes, keep it straight and keep the spurs as well. But I was also thinking about double tracking between Mulock and the drop-in on the Wellington side, combining staging and the passing-siding; thought the Mulock crossing had to become singletrack, To switch the spurs around Mulock you may still need a short runaround, so the added crossover near Wellington. Queens remained single track territory in my initial thinking
But I still think you'll need a runaround near or in the the yard, i would have a sleepless night or two; so many passing-sidings. You do not really need an extra runaround between Mullock and Wellington. You could always switch the spurs on the way east or west, working the trailing spur only. Having a passing-siding at Queens (a runaround for the yard) and one in staging (partly?hidden), gives you all the operational flexibility you'll need.
You'r really learning fast sir, chapeau. There is a great plan emerging!!
BTW, if you look on the thread " is 24" plausible? " you will find a picture of a huge elevator complex in Wichita. To scale it down you can deminish the size of the cylinders, the number of them or truncate the building. The first two have to be done with care, a big building should remain big and still dwarf the environment. The last option is more easy to our brains; it seems to invent the remainder of the build itself.
Have fun , good luck
I noticed you have a switchback in the lower right corner, they can be more trouble than they're worth if you don't keep part of it clear for switching moves. Make sure you know what you're getting into when you include switchbacks - see Byron's article for the details.
odaveI noticed you have a switchback in the lower right corner, they can be more trouble than they're worth if you don't keep part of it clear for switching moves. Make sure you know what you're getting into when you include switchbacks - see Byron's article for the details.
Thanks odave - It is technically not a switchback. The track continues to the left as the main line in the real world, although in my layout it stops. To the left of the switch is just a rail bridge over a road (Yonge Street), with no industry or stops. The siding is to an industry. I do need to ensure enough room for moving cars there, but the intent is for there only to be minimal movement there.
Gotcha. I lost some context when the buildings, streets, and backdrops went away. I know it takes time to put them in, but they do help with evaluation and also ensure that you're leaving enough space for scenic elements.
So I take it the bottom two tracks there are still hidden behind something? If so, you may want to look at the spacing between them and the scenic'd main. I'm not sure there's enough room for the backdrop or whatever it is that hides them to fit. Remember that you'll have roadbed, ballast, and the turnout mechanism to account for.
Is the bottom 12" off limits? It might be nice to pull the yard around the corner and down there, so you'd have an inverted "G" shape. It seems like the single-track look of this area has been lost in the current plan, and that might help open things up.
odaveGotcha. I lost some context when the buildings, streets, and backdrops went away. I know it takes time to put them in, but they do help with evaluation and also ensure that you're leaving enough space for scenic elements. So I take it the bottom two tracks there are still hidden behind something? If so, you may want to look at the spacing between them and the scenic'd main. I'm not sure there's enough room for the backdrop or whatever it is that hides them to fit. Remember that you'll have roadbed, ballast, and the turnout mechanism to account for. Is the bottom 12" off limits? It might be nice to pull the yard around the corner and down there, so you'd have an inverted "G" shape. It seems like the single-track look of this area has been lost in the current plan, and that might help open things up.
Yes - the bottom two tracks are hidden behind backdrop for staging. I will probably need to pull the main track further away - you are right. The bench on the left runs to a wall, so if I am understanding you correctly - I could angle the yard to the right away a bit from the main line - is that what you mean?
I am putting roads and buildings on the plan as we speak...
Aralai The bench on the left runs to a wall, so if I am understanding you correctly - I could angle the yard to the right away a bit from the main line - is that what you mean?
Actually I was wondering if the whole bottom grid row, the width of your entire space, and 12" high, could be the yard. That would leave 24" of aisle space from the top edge of that yard to the bottom edge of your Toronto staging (which would need to be fully enclosed to remain hidden, I guess - but you can do something easy with hinges or curtains there). You could think of the shape of an @ sign with the top of the "a" cut off or a backwards 9. A picture would be better, but I am sans drawing tools at the moment. I'm not sure how this would work out with the curves, though.
Sir MadogI have noticed that switchbacks on layouts are one of those like/dislike items.
I agree, but sometimes it seems people aren't aware of the problems they can introduce, so when it's up and running they end up saying "wow, this really stinks" as opposed to "that's the challenge I intended".
OK - this should be more clear. I angled the yards to separate from the main line and added roads, buildings etc.. I also made more space between tracks in the bottom right - between hidden staging and the main (visible) track.