I recently saw a few old steel mill threads reactivated and noticed that there were quite a few questions from forum members on steel mills. So, in an effort to identify some steel mill modelers and hopefully disseminate some info on mills, let’s here from you guys;
While your intent has merit this topic has been beaten to death on numerous occasions and may account for the lack of responses.
Beaten to death or not, the steel industry was one major player in RR traffic. My wife has convinced me (maybe demanded is more accurate) to include one on the layout. I have done alot of looking on the Library of Congress website at steel mills in their hayday. I found loads of pictures ranging from distant general views to up close detail shots and drawings of the facility layout and furnaces. The fact that Walthers is pushing their line of steel mill buildings is somewhat encouraging as well, even if it is a bit pricey for the blast furnace. My initial thoughts have placed a mill not far from the railyard (not far as layouts would go), with a few smaller industrial buisnesses in between and some more industry after the mill to make a large urban industrial district. I have alloted a max distance of 44ft for the whole scene and will reduce that distance if I can. It would be nice to have a 2nd blast furnace as well as a large open hearth furnace . I really need to decide if I want to bring the ore in by rail or freighter. The freighter would be neat but would eat up alot of depth (I would want a couple hulett unloaders and bridge cranes), where as rail service would require alot more yard area. I have pondered making this as a penninsula so access would be greatly improved and a bit more depth could be added but this would also limit me on the length. I suppose I'll have to ask the wife. It's much easier to build something like this when you don't have to second guess yourself and just "build it". She's going to be financing the steel mill part of it anyhow (her present for me for something).
Beaten to death ? Hardly, I did a search for "steel mill" in all the forums and there are only 5 threads directly related to steel mills in the last year. None of them are asking to see other peoples mills but, maybe just asking about a particluar portion or operational ideas.
Congrats Tom on getting you wife to finance your mill. How did you do that? My wife came down the other day (after I practicaly begged) to witness the first run of a loco on my layout and she said,"Wow honey, that train is going rally fast". Fortunately I realized early on in our relationship that she would not "get it" when it comes to my trains.
I'll have to post some pics of my own to get this thread going.
I am glad you posted a thread on steel mills. I've just started constructing a model railroad centering around a steel mill and a blast furnace. The models will be the new ones from Cornerstone and I plan to build it in stages since I really just want to take my time. My railroad is a 16'-2" long table shaped like a 'P'. The loop end of the table is 9'-0" wide with the "tail" portion about 4'-0" wide. It's on the tail end of the table I plan to use the Blast Furnace and the Mill. The loop portion i was planning on modeling some factories to receive the products from the mill. My alternate plan if i can't make this look right is to use a Mine or Coke Retort to create the ore to the blast furnace. Since I really have no other experience in the steel industries I can use any information I can get on the shiiping and receiving operations involved with the steel industries. As I get a little further on my table I will post a couple of photos. By the way I am new to the hobby but I had a trainset as a kid that my father built on a 4 x 8' sheet of plywood, it never worked correctly so I am in constant fear that my will end the same way.
Thanks
There's a SIG group specifically dedicated to steel on yahoo groups. It's called (surprisingly enough) "steel". It contains both modelers, photos, layouts, and real steel industry veterens for prototype information. I consider it an invaluable resource.
The dean of steel modeling would be "Dean Freytag". A good professor of steel modeling would be "John Glab" of Peach Creek shops. His 4x8 layout was featured in MRR. He also plans and puts together the yearly "Steel mill modelers meet" which is hugely popular among fellow steel modelers.
As to myself, I have 2 blast furnaces, a 3 kit long rolling mill, 1 electric furnace, 1 coke plant, 1 scratch built/kitbashed open hearth (3 rolling mill kits long), 1 ore crane, 1 vulcan manufacturing, and 1 plant car shop. (And a blower house on the way when Walther's ships them) I fit it nicely using #5 turnouts and about ~60 sq feet. My inspiration was Sparrows Point Blast Row in Baltimore shortly after WWII.
I know csx_roadslug is a fellow steel modeler as well. He's always been of great help to me when I asked his opinion about my own layout.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
HarryPBy the way I am new to the hobby but I had a trainset as a kid that my father built on a 4 x 8' sheet of plywood, it never worked correctly so I am in constant fear that my will end the same way.
Hi Harry,
May I recommend you save the blast furances for LAST. A number of people get frustrated with their assembly, because the molds on the ovens and furnace itself doesn't line up all the time. It takes some modeling experience and patience to learn how to deal with these issues. A good place to start would be the rolling mill, or electric furnace. :-D A small easy model that is well done serves as inspiration and motivation for the larger stuff.
Stay away from the "plastruct kits" until you are an experienced modeler. These are craftsman level kits. This means you need to do a lot of measuring, cutting, test fitting, filing, sanding, and shaping of basic shapes. I started one, and progress has been "sloooooooow"
Hey Harry,
Yes, welcome to the forums. I'm glad you too chose a steel mill to model, I think they offer endless ways to work on your favorite rail roading skills. I have just finished the benchwork for mine, 24'x5', (N-scale) and am now working on the track. Ultimately I want the mill to be a peninsula in the midst of my layout and the mill is my favorite so I decided to start there. Here are a couple of links for info;
http://www.zahkunst.net/mainpage.htm - my absolute favorite, this guy is an exceptional modeler
http://daveayers.com/Modeling/Steel.htm - tons of pics and prototype info
http://www.hfinster.de/StahlArt2/Tours-en.html - tons of pics
http://www.neiu.edu/~reseller/sephotoalbumsacme.html - tons of great pics
http://www.peachcreekshops.com/page.php?id=steel&UID=2005062714015412.14.120.226 - steel mill stuff and a great store
http://www.nvntrak.org/modules/alkem_steel__part_2.php - lots of info on a steel mill, operational and raw materials movement within a mill
Hope these links can provide you with some needed info, don't hesitate to reach out and ask questions.
Tom
I have been looking at Pittsburg Steels Monessen Works for a general building and track setup and will delete some (maybe many) of the finishing type buildings as necessary, such as nail plant, barbed wire, galvanizing , etc. I found the layout and many pictures and drawings (blast furnace, open hearth furnace, site diagrams) at the library of congress website and did a search on "monessen works".
Walthers seems to have the only kits available for a decent size mill. I have seen several mills that were scratchbuilt, but most were either the walthers kit or some variation of it. I'm sure to buy at least 1 blast furnace and may try building a second. I don't think the wife knows what she's getting into. A large mill of cornerstone buildings and cars might very well exceed $1k. I am waiting to see the dimentions on the hulett unloader to see how feasible the whole setup would be. I'm figuring 12" for river/lake/oreboat, another 12" for the hulett, 24" for the bridge crane, then the highline and buildings, somewhat in a row as needed. I'm thinking that this is going to be on a penninsula of an actual penninsula, making the loop tracks for the huletts appear more a necessity. That means a width of at least 6ft. I'm thinking with the massive size of this that I would best off to start getting the buildings together (or temp buildings) before even making the benchwork. I want to keep it somewhat packed in and model the coke ovens elsewhere on the layout, even if its just on the other side of town to generate more loads through the layout, as well as other functions of the steel industry within the city industrial area. I have yet to decide on either the coke works from walthers or beehive ovens away from the coal mine area. Since I'm a lone wolf, just getting the coal to the ovens and then to the mill and having a yard somewhat central to all so I don't have to pass the destination to do some yard switching means I shouldn't get bored anytime soon.
I happen to have two harbors on my 24'x24' garage loft layout . One harbor contains a 4 track railroad car ferry and and an ore carrier being loaded with ore from an 18 bin loader. (See photo below). The other harbor was waiting for a reason for being, Luckily, it has a 32 inch. long dock, which is just long enough for an ore carrier, (that I built from scratch). At present there is a mobile crane that rides of a widely spaced track, for unloading ships that enter the harbor through a swing bridge. The harbor is located on a 5ft. wide peninsula, (the center of which is accessible via a lift out oval Luan panel). The peninsula also has a mountain with skate&ski resort at the top, part of a small town, and a 7 track pass-through staging yard. There was a removable round house, which left me with a 2ftx3ft space, next to one of four switch control panels. I finally had to add 10 manually controlled switches to provide the extensive switching , that is part of a steel mill complex.
.I made a huge purchase of a Coke Retort complex, two Hulett ore unloaders,( back-ordered for July delivery) , the Rolling mill, a six-pack of bottle cars, a six pack of slag cars,and last "but not least", the Blast Furnace. The Blast Furnace, alone, was over $240 ,(but worth it !) The kit comes in six sheets of numbered parts. The most frustrating part in construction, was to find the "numbered parts, that were distributed at random, ( I suppose to fit on the six rectangles of plastic sprues). If you get the kit, I highly recommend that you place the numbered parts in sequentially numbered envelopes. Follow the good directions step by step. It is a gorgeous 17'x27"x23" edifice when completed, after some 35 hours of work. I also suggest that you build the three sections, on a Luan or styrene 22"X28" base, so that the entire set-up lifts as one piece.
As suggested, it might be better to start with the construction of the Rolling Mill, or the Coke Retort, since they are much easier to complete. I used a "track cutter" and fine sandpaper. which with Testor's Plastic Cement, melded the parts together. I, also,used some rubber bands, to held the parts together while the glue dried.
Someone mentioned "Peach Creek Shop.com" . Be sure to view the option of "Other Steel Mill Models". Especially, the three views of steel mill complex of Tom McDonald. The lengthy explanation of steel mill operations is excellent. Another resource is to type in "Hulett Unloader.com/Videos". Be sure to also view the Optional references. The one on the Dumping of Slag, is so terrific , that I am going to try to duplicate it with some of my slag cars. I plan to make a hollowed out plastic "orange fluorescent colored filler "semi-hardened shell", in the bucket on the slag car, (by using an aluminum liner, with an "egg shell displacer of Magic Water plastic" Then, use fluorescent orange ribbon,(with a weight at the end) to fill the "displaced hollow". Hopefully, (with a small tube black light), the slag will pour out of the tipped bucket of the slag car, as a glowing mass, with the semi-hardened slag shell falling out last. I plan to have a fluorescent tube mounted above the troughs where the molten iron flows to the downspouts to the bottle cars and slag cars. I will pull fluorescent orange colored ribbon with a crank operated black thread, along the troughs.The extensive amount of switching required, will keep one operator very busy. Nuff said ! Bob Hahn
This is a view of the ore carrier being loaded with ore. The Steel Mill complex and the harbor where two Hulett Unloaders will be located next to the 32" ore carrier, are at right angles to each other, with the Rolling Mill parallel to the Blast Furnace, so that the total width is about 35 inches, and a length of about 4 ft. The coke is brought in by rail from a coke-gas works on the other side of the layout. I will enclose a photo of my set-up next week.
Dean Fretag's book featuring his modelling Davies Steel, is an excellent source of both prototypical operating characteristics and modelling expertise. I encourage you to find a copy.
Yellowjacket EF-3
ef3 yellowjacket Dean Fretag's book featuring his modelling Davies Steel, is an excellent source of both prototypical operating characteristics and modelling expertise. I encourage you to find a copy. Yellowjacket EF-3
The NMRA is having it reprinted and will be released soon. I know that I'm sure waiting for my copy since I also are building a steel mill. The entire mill area will eventually occupy 27*15 feet approximately.
Magnus
Hey Tinman,
When designing your trackplan cut out cardoard footprints of the buildings you want. Walthers has the dimensions of each model listed on their website. It will make it a lot easier to try and get you trackplan down if you have buildings to put in place and see how big they really are. When I did mine I knew how big I was going to make the table so I then cut out the buildings I wanted and designed the track plan around them.
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
Why not get some of these cars if you like them, and rather than have them actually working a mill, have them awaiting service/repair at a car fabrication shop of sorts? I am not familiar with what these facilities actually would do with slag cars, torpedos, etc; but I am sure that there could be some plausibility and thus justification for an operation such as I mentioned.
EF3 Yellowjacket
That was what I had thought as well. I will empty enough space on the basement floor to achieve the maximum area and start placing things from there. That's why I haven't even started the benchwork for it. I am unsure on exactly how much area I'm going to need, but a bit of doodling on some graphpaper has me thinking I've been planning n-scale in a ho world. I would really like to unload ore from a freighter with huletts and have a couple big bridge cranes in addition to the complex. That's coming up to a whole lot of depth. I'm now thinking that it's going to take up a minimum of 4ft to get from the water to the highline. Then theres the actual mill buildings and two tracks that wrap around the penninsula to get to the unloaders (4 track). Without any details from Walthers, it's unclear if they will retain the 4 tracks and/or include room for the shunting track and engines. I'm sure that a fair amount of either kitbashing or scratchbuilding will be involved with the area I have alloted for this, or I can pull the imminent domain stunt I so despise and increase the area of the layout.
I checked out some of the links from one of the above posts and all I can say is "WOW". The one site that has 6 or so blast furnaces and all the support buildings, (mostly kitbashed and enlarged) was very impressive. I know he states he is an engineer or architect, but I would swear he doesn't work at all and drinks RedBulls all day. His complex (If I could afford it) would take me the rest of my life to build.
Capt. G-
Rich does have a great idea. At a hot metal car repair facility they would typically be replacing trucks and wheels, relining the interior of the torpedo and slag cars, replacing torpedoes or slag thimbles. All the activity offers tons of options for loads in such as, refractory bricks for the religns, trucks and wheels, new vessels (torpedoes and slag thimbles) for the cars and other misc. parts for the cars. Loads out would be similiar but old and unusable parts that were replaced. I have seen these facilities at a few mills and they look just like a single Walthers rolling mill but with a yard crane attached at one end.
I think you said you have a yard nearby so you could model a coke plant too or maybe just the meltshop. There are quite a few mills in the rust belt that have their meltshop several miles away from their rolling mills and they have to send hot metal unit trains in between the two sites several times a day. Search Youtube for "hot metal trains" and "slag dump" and you will see a few great ideas.
Thanks DigitalGriffin;
You gave some good advice. I will start with the rolling mill first or maybe a simpler factory model. I will abide by Clint Eastwood's motto "A man has got to know his limitations". Eventually I am sure I will get to a craftsman level kit. I have to remind myself the purpose is to have fun with it.
Thanks,
Harry
Tinman, sounds like you are working on a similiar trackplan to what I am working on. I'll have to take some pics to show you. My peninsula is 5' wide with the highline running right down the middle at one end. On one side, looking from the edge in to the highline, of I have a small harbor, double track main, bridge cranes and oar yard, then the highline. From the other side starting at the edge I have double track main at the edge, four track coal/coke loading/unloading yard, blower house and the the blast furnace. It's tight, but that is how mills are supposed to look.
Capt. Grimek, check this out
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/todengine/vpost?id=3298205
I am not sure about the Walthers cars. I am positive that cars made by State Tool and Die work well. On Dean Fretag's "Davies Steel", they are used and I believe, the torpedo cars are also used. Some of these cars come with "Buckeye" trucks, and "Buckeye" trucks have been around since at least the forties, if not sooner.
This layout has a very high factor of "wwwwwwooooooooooooowwwwww"
It gives Dean Freytag a run for his money
http://www.zahkunst.net/mainpage.htm
Select from the main menu up top 1:160 scale model
And yes, there are movies or said layout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_Vncda8ZZ4
A few year's back I put in a steel mill, or rather a one blast furnace "mini mill". I was frustrated in not finding a rolling mill that was long enough so I eventually scratchbuilt one. I used quarter inch plywood for the walls and roof and sheathed them with sheet plastic salvaged from used vinyl siding. I put on some Pikestuff roof vents and sprayed the whole thing in flat black with a Bethlehem Steel logo sign on top. It looks reasonable and you can't beat the price. For a foundary building, I adapted the Walthers Diesel Enginehouse kit which is quite large and makes a good industrial structure once most of the doors are walled up. I sprayed everything with cheap flat black spray paint and then weathered with Rustoleum oxide red primer to simulate blast furnace dust fallout. To check out the result, go to www.fsmrrc.org, click on "photogallery" and again on Jim Valle's layout.
Tinman1,
See if these pics can help you plan out your peninsula. The width of the table is 5' with the harbor being on the right, it is that white area, I have yet to cut it out. You can seee the highline runs just about down the middle of the table and the harbor is 6" wide so there is +/- 20" between the harbor and the highline. The bridge crane is an HO crane from Walthers, way in the background is an HO BOF from Trix, the BF is N-scale along with the trains. If you measure most items in the Walthers line of steel mill buildings you will find that most HO buildings are just the right size for an N layout. For example, my BOF stands 14" tall, just over 180' in N scale (would only be 90' in an HO world, rolling mill buildings are that big) but, still tiny by US Steel's standards for a BOF.
Capt. Grimeck - that building on the lower left is going to be my hot metel car repair facility. It is made from an N-scale Walthers rolling mill.
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I have a couple questions about slab steel maybe some of you people can shed some light on.
Firstly, I've seen pictures of gons with two or three slabs piled up inside of them. How big are these slabs? Furthermore I'm bad at guessing how big a car is. Would these gons tend to be shorter, given the monster weight inside?
Secondly, I see a lot of empty slab cars at a mill nearby but I think they move them loaded at night. They're bulkhead flats (half height compared to a typical bulkhead) with three brackets evenly spaced out. Anyone know how long these cars are? Any drawings in a magazine out there? I assume these guys are a kitbash at best or a scratchbuild at worse.
Hey NittanyLion,
I can't tell exactly how big the gons are but I think just about any size would be OK. Check out these two pics. The first just 'cause it's a cool car and the 2nd be cause there must be 7 or 8 different size gons in it. Any size will do.
As far as slabs go;
From Wikipedia - A large rectangular piece of metal (dimensions: 1.25 m wide, 230 mm thick, 12 m long), usually used in metal-working as a semi-finished product for further production into sheet metal
It's been my experience that those dimensions can vary but that would be a pretty common size. Notice slabs are for sheet steel, blooms and billets would be different sizes.
Hope this helps.