- Douglas
Hi Stets
Yes Peco does have a geometry diagram like Hornby does.
However for the set track the geometry and radius are exactly the same and conform to British standards.
Peco have a very good range of larger radius points and flex track as well but I have not seen a diagram for that range.
For code 100 track both ranges set and flex are compatable with each other.
regards John
WarrenCappCTValleyRR , I have a question. If I wanted my curved rails to go parallel one inside the other with a 67mm distance in between, what radious would I need?
Welcome to the forum. CTValley RR hasn't posted since May of 2015 and the thread is from years ago. Nothing wrong that if there is new information to add.
Forum meister Steve Otte will not charge you a penny if you start your own thread. He not too found of politics and dirty jokes though
For the metricly impaired, you are asking about 2.64 inches between rails. The easy answer is:
Radius(1) + 67mm + width of your track in mm = Radius(2)
The hard answer is What is Radius(1)? That depends on the era you are modeling and the length of the cars you are running. I suggest the book Track Planning for Realistic Operation which discusses distance between tracks and minimum radii.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
CTValleyRR , I have a question. If I wanted my curved rails to go parallel one inside the other with a 67mm distance in between, what radious would I need?
You're a legend! Thanks for the schematics!
I'll be back to the drawing board tonight after work! Its now 7:25am Friday here in Oz.
StetsI basically measured up my room and said the best I can do with this room is to build a table that is going to use up the most of the space in there.
Good idea. If your goal is to "use up the space" rather than "fulfill as many as possible of my goals while building a model railroad in this room".
Four simple illustrations:
1) This is pretty much the biggest H0 island style layout with access on three sides you can fit into an 8x8 foot room:
2) Same room used a different way:
Filling up the room with the biggest table you can fit into the middle of the floor is not necessarily the best strategy.
4) This is a sketch of the current state of my layout, which is located in a 6.5 x 11.5 foot (2 meter x 3.5 meter) room:
There are quite a few other options than just "make as big a table as you can fit into the room and fill it with track".
Grin, Stein
You're absolutely spot on Steinjr on the table size being a given!
I basically measured up my room and said the best I can do with this room is to build a table that is going to use up the most of the space in there. And that's how I come up with the table of 2.4m x 1.8m This allows me to go around any point of the table. So, I went ahead and made the table and now its ready to be used.
I dont particulary want to move away from the size of this table. I will if I have to as a last resort, but I think I can make it work. If anything I'm about a metre short in length and probably to much in width.
You state Is your real goal to be able to sit back and watch realistic looking trains run through realistic looking mountainous terrain. Pretty much the case Steinjr. When its complete the kids won't be touching it until they are older! The youngest is already hassling me to get it started as he had seen the loco's in its boxes!
I got to stick to HO scale. Too heavily involved in it. Already have most of the track pieces and trains so I can't go another scale.
This is great feedback and gives me some food for thought. I shall perservere. Please drop me an email anytime if you come across any plans!
Steve
StetsHey, I dont mind you being blunt. Honesty is the best policy! Back to the drawing board! Ive been working on a plan for months and still cant get it right!
Hey, I dont mind you being blunt. Honesty is the best policy!
Back to the drawing board! Ive been working on a plan for months and still cant get it right!
Possibly because you seem to be treating table size as a given, and apparently just tries to cram in as many alternate routes as you can for that table size.
Start by defining the room you are planning to put your layout into - draw a reasonably accurate plan of the room, with all measures clearly, incidating clearly doors, windows and other uses of the room your plan has to co-exist with.
You also need to define for yourself what you want to achieve. Why do you want a layout ? What do you hope to get from it? For instance - what is your reason for wanting multiple alternative paths through the same scene ?
Is your real goal to be able to sit back and watch realistic looking trains run through realistic looking mountainous terrain ? Or is your real goal to create a toy for your kids - where the kids can press a button to change what path the train will take. Or something else?
Next think about what you want to model - location, era, type of operations.
If you are looking for a realistic looking railfan type layout, try thinking N scale trains (or even Z scale trains) and a fairly narrow (but long) donut-shaped layout that run around you (instead of you moving around the layout looking in on them), with lift-out allowing you access to the center area).
Or a shelf along one or two walls, with turnback "blobs" at the end for continuous running - for N scale it is entirely practical you have a loopback on a shelf, with access only from the front.
If you are looking for a toy for kids, and it is supposed to reside in the middle of the floor in a big basement den or some such thing, consider a simpler 4x8 H0 layout in a classic figure 8 over/under configurations, with an alternate path/siding along part of the curve (preferably with wheels under the legs, so it can be pushed up against the wall when not in use.
But no matter what style layout you go for, it rarely a great choice to say "I've had to design it around the table size I have already (2.4m x 1.8m)", without any reference to the size of the room your layout will be in, or without any thought to what effects you are trying to achieve. Existing tables can be disassembled and reassembled in different sizes and shapes. Or thrown away and replaced, if necessary.
Smile, Stein
Stets .
.
Your earlier thought (back in March) to use Ken Keyser's WM 5X9 layout from the July 2004 issue of Model Railroader.(which was originally Linn Westcott's 4X8 "HO Layout that Grows" from the 1960s) had limitations, but frankly, was much, much better than this latest for long term interest. Sorry to be blunt.
Byron
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Glad to see you have a sense of humor.
Yeah, you have one reversing loop on your layout which allows you to reverse the direction of the train, well, once. You need two reverse loops. I don't see a place to add a second without greatly complicating the grades and making the layout absolutely horrible to build.
Texas Zephyr's plan that he posted on the first page is a tried and true folded dogbone plan that achieves a lot what it sounds like you're looking for. There have been many layouts built with this basic plan over the years with many variations on the scenery theme. At 8'x6' you should have enough room to widen it and make it easier to build with gentler grades.
You might also try to place two semi-oval trackplans on top of each other having two separate trains running independently, crossing over each other, opposite directions. That should keep the kids entertained for a while.
Maybe others can see a solution to the dilemma presented in your current plan, but I can't at this point.
Salt and Fosters! Sensational. I like it! You forgot the shrimp on the barbie!
My dilema is - look at point 6 on the drawing. The train can either vear to the right or continue straight but all its going to do from there is take a short cut and then eventually join the purple track and all it then can do is one big loop without entering the inner circle again.
Start at point 1 and follow the outside track until you get to point 2. At this point you will vear to the left and take the inside track (yellow line) which then comes onto the outer purple line again (point 4) - follow that to get to the yellow lined loop then end up at point 3 (middle of the 3 way intersection). That then takes me to point 6 which then the train can only do a loop and not enter the yellow section again. This is where Im seeking support from anyone out there that can get me back into the yellow loop section.
Happy to listen to any thoughts - feel free to add a section in to get me back to the other area.
Stets Take 2 - trying upload the photo!!
Take 2 - trying upload the photo!!
Well, it does have an interesting use for a three way switch. Overall, put salt on it and have a Foster's.
In other words, you probably don't have to make it that complicated. It would be easier to make the scenery look more realistic with a simpler track plan. Check some of the 4x8 plans in this website's database and just expand it.
Can I have some input on your thoughts with this track?
I've had to design it around the table size I have already (2.4m x 1.8m)
StetsI can't work out what radius they are. I'm assuming the 8 curved sections that it comes with are either R605 or R607. Perhaps even R609 for all I know.
Sometimes there is a part number molded on the underside of the piece somewhere. Otherwise, can you hook enough of them together to make a half circle, or even a quarter circle? Then you can just measure.
In any event, the poster above who stated that no plan survives contact with the enemy is, to use your term, spot on. If you can't figure it out, take your best guess. It will be "close enough for government work." You will most likely have to tweak the paper plan a little to get it on the layout anyway.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
StetsCan someone assist me with a Query - I have emailed Hornby twice and no reponse!I recently purchased the Hornby Goods Master set. What I'd like to know is - what are the part numbers of the track pieces it comes with. I can't work out what radius they are. I'm assuming the 8 curved sections that it comes with are either R605 or R607. Perhaps even R609 for all I know.I'm using AnyRail to design my track but can't work out what those 8 track sections are.Any help will be greatly appreciated
Can someone assist me with a Query - I have emailed Hornby twice and no reponse!I recently purchased the Hornby Goods Master set. What I'd like to know is - what are the part numbers of the track pieces it comes with. I can't work out what radius they are. I'm assuming the 8 curved sections that it comes with are either R605 or R607. Perhaps even R609 for all I know.I'm using AnyRail to design my track but can't work out what those 8 track sections are.Any help will be greatly appreciated
FWIW, a quick search on www.google.com using search terms
Hornby Goods Master radius
yields several links, one to a page which describes the set as containing:
BR 0-4-0 Class 06 Diesel Shunter locomotiveBrake VanThree assorted open wagons (Wagons may differ from those illustrated)Track: Third Radius Starter OvalC990 Wall plug transformerR965 Train ControllerR8206 Power TrackR8217 Hornby MidiMat TrakMat Track requires 1090 x 940mm
So - next task is to figure out what "Third radius" means in Hornby terms. Googling for this, it appears from this page (http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/track-conversion.htm) that it is something Hornby call R608 or R609.
Stein,
I hear what you're saying! All valid points!
The reason I asked was because I purchased the AnyRail program and I have hornby and peco pieces and I just wanted to know what the part number of the flexi track that I had - but i worked it out! It was the SL-100 (914mm code 100 track piece).
So, I absolutely agree with you - flexi track is the only way to go. Its just the turnouts that I need.
Thanks again for being informative!
Stets Does anybody know if Peco has a similar schematic/geometric diagram like Hornby does below? I'm trying to know what all the Peco track pieces are.
Does anybody know if Peco has a similar schematic/geometric diagram like Hornby does below?
I'm trying to know what all the Peco track pieces are.
First - any particular reason you feel that you need/want to use sectional track (track that comes in rigid short curved, straight etc sections, usually with track bed made of plastic under) ? It is far more flexible (...) to use long (90 cm) pieces of flextrack, which can be bent to form curves of whatever curvature you need and cut to length as needed.
Second - what you are looking for (a way of testing track plans to see if they would fit with turnouts etc from your manufacturer of choice) is called either "track planning templates" (if done by paper cutouts) or "track libraries" (if done by a track planning program).
Some track libraries in some track planning programs (e.g Xtrakcad, which I like and use) also has Peco Setrack libraries. I don't use Setrack - to me it feels too constricting when making track plans, but it is there if you want to use it.
Third - usually, few plan survive contact with the enemy (reality) unchanged.You start out with a plan, but you still adjust things as you go anyways - so don't sweat the details too much, and try not to set things in concrete if you can avoid it - it is usually nice to have the flexibility to make changes as needed.
Anyways - if you are dead set on using Setrack, Peco (like e.g. Märklin) has a product showing the track pieces available and possible geometries for Code 100 HO/OO scale Setrack - a track planning booklet - look for Peco product number STP-00 "Setrack OO/HO Planbook".
I found the part number here: http://www.peco-uk.com/Products/pecoproducts.htm
I don't know about a schematic like that, but if you want to get a listing of the track pieces, go to the Walthers Website, use Advanced Search for Track & Accessories, HO Scale, and manufacturer 552.
This link might work (I don't know if the search results will link properly).
steinjr What he is saying is pretty obvious: he wants to use a simple model railroad track plan which originally was named "Western Maryland Ry. Blackwater Division", but change scenery so it looks somewhat like the Donner River Canyon.Anything unclear ?
What he is saying is pretty obvious: he wants to use a simple model railroad track plan which originally was named "Western Maryland Ry. Blackwater Division", but change scenery so it looks somewhat like the Donner River Canyon.
Anything unclear ?
Absolutely SPOT on!
Sorry for the delayed response. Its due to the time difference between Australia and U.S - Im in bed when you're awake and vice versa!
Stets
Midnight RailroaderStetsThe track "plan" is to use the Western Maryland Ry. Blackwater Division (slightly modified) - to utilise the entire space of my table which is 2.8metres x 1.8 metres. The scenery I want is like Donner River Canyon section. So you're saying you want to run Western Maryland (an Eastern U.S. prototype) trains on a layout with Western U.S. scenery. Okay.
StetsThe track "plan" is to use the Western Maryland Ry. Blackwater Division (slightly modified) - to utilise the entire space of my table which is 2.8metres x 1.8 metres. The scenery I want is like Donner River Canyon section.
The track "plan" is to use the Western Maryland Ry. Blackwater Division (slightly modified) - to utilise the entire space of my table which is 2.8metres x 1.8 metres.
The scenery I want is like Donner River Canyon section.
So you're saying you want to run Western Maryland (an Eastern U.S. prototype) trains on a layout with Western U.S. scenery.
Okay.
Smile,Stein
Stets You can see this is the modified Western Marylands Blackwater Division from the MR+ section
You can see this is the modified Western Marylands Blackwater Division from the MR+ section
Which was originally Linn Westcott's 4X8 "HO Layout that Grows" from the 1960s. Ken Keyser's WM 5X9 version of of it is in the July 2004 issue of Model Railroader.
Subscribers may find it here:http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=1334
I recently had the project of recreating this layout design for a client with a larger space, which made it much more practical. As drawn here and in your space in HO, the grades overall and the radii in the reversing loop may be a bit challenging, but are do-able. There are probably more interesting possibilities for the space that might reflect more recent design ideas, but if you are set on this plan, best of luck.
ByronModel RR Blog
You might consider getting one of the free track planning software packages out there (Atlas has one, but it only uses their track pieces). But it will give you a materials list and even price it for you. Personally, I prefer AnyRail (see my post above), which will set you back $55 US, but in my mind it is worth every penny. REALLY easy to use and learn, unlike the various CAD programs out there. You can download a free version, but it only lets you place 50 pieces (total,even if you delete some). I designed it using English units, not metric, but here's the material list.
500, H0 Atlas Code 83 500. Flex 23.53 in.......................................1500, H0 Atlas Code 83 500. Flex 27.4 in........................................ 1520, H0 Atlas Code 83 520. Straight 9 in........................................ 6523, H0 Atlas Code 83 523. Straight 1.5 in..................................... 1525, H0 Atlas Code 83 525. Straight 2 in. ...................................... 1532, H0 Atlas Code 83 532. Curve radius 18 in, angle 30º ...... .........7533, H0 Atlas Code 83 533. Curve radius 18 in, angle 15º ............... 2534, H0 Atlas Code 83 534. Curve radius 18 in, angle 10º ............... 1535, H0 Atlas Code 83 535. Curve radius 22 in, angle 22.5º ........... 21563, H0 Atlas Code 83 563 #6. Left turnout 12 in............................. 18895, H0 Walthers Code 83 8895 #7 Right curved turnout 14.97 in.... 1
Track lengths500, H0 Atlas Code 83 500. Flex 36 in. 4.24 ft520, H0 Atlas Code 83 520. Straight 9 in. 4.5 ft523, H0 Atlas Code 83 523. Straight 1.5 in. 0.12 ft525, H0 Atlas Code 83 525. Straight 2 in. 0.17 ft532, H0 Atlas Code 83 532. Curve radius 18 in, angle 30º 5.5 ft533, H0 Atlas Code 83 533. Curve radius 18 in, angle 15º 0.79 ft534, H0 Atlas Code 83 534. Curve radius 18 in, angle 10º 0.26 ft535, H0 Atlas Code 83 535. Curve radius 22 in, angle 22.5º 15.12 ft563, H0 Atlas Code 83 563 #6. Left turnout 12 in. 1.78 ft8895, H0 Walthers Code 83 8895 #7 Right curved turnout 14.97 in. 2.46 ft
Total track length: 34.94 ft
The beauty of these programs is that they let you easily try different configurations to see what fits and what you like.
A couple of comments, if I may. First of all, I used 22" radius to go around the outside, and it just fits in your space (44", or 1.13m, to make a complete circle; about 2.5m for a full figure 8... although you could try using a double crossover in the middle and see if you could compress it a bit. Now a 22" turnout is already a bit on the tight side for bigger equipment (our National Model Railroad Association recommends 24" radius as a "conventional" curve). In order to fit the track you're envisioning, you'd need some seriously tight curves on the inside (say about 15" -- good luck getting anything longer than 40 scale feet to corner that). I had to use a 3% grade on the plan I put above; you may be into something steeper, which again will cause all sorts of problems for bigger equipment.
Any chance you can add a little more space? Go around the outside of a room, for example. I think your 4 concentric curves is a bit ambitious for your space.
Absolutely fantastic! thanks!
Let me try again myself.
Ok, looks like it worked! So here is my design guys.
Assistance with working out what track pieces I require would be immensly appreciated!!!!