Hello out there, Im from Australia and a converted enthusiast in Model Railroading (HO Scale). Im pleading for some help in Layout ideas for HO scale. I have a table that is 7.87 feet by 5.9 feet.
The plan I am trying to work on, is the Western Maryland Ry. with some modifications.
In a nutshell, I want to build a layout that has no yards or buildings, but rather mountains/hills, forrest, bridges and rivers.
Can anyone assist with a track plan that will work on the table size and of the above description?
Any help would be greatly appreicated!!
Steve
Atlas Model Railroad Layouts on the Internet shows many good layout ideas. Following is a photo of a layout that I just designed for a modeler on Trains.com Forums.. Kalmbach has several good books on layout design for cramped space layouts. I highly recommend Joe Fugate's DVDs on scenery and the oje on layouts.
The following scene combines a river gorge, and highway and train bridges, in a mountainous region of my layout.Click on the photos to enlarge them. Then click left or right photos on the series of three pictures (in the upper right), to view other scenes of my, rather large, HO layout.
The following scene shows how to produce "forced perspective" (of the Western Maryland area), The front train is HO scale and the train on the raised roadbed, (directly behind it), is N scale. The background is a section of the SceniKing 7"x11" photo of distant hills (which is part of the continuoius series of photos surrounding my around the room layout. For the upper sky I had flat paint mixed that matched the blue color of the sky on the photos. I glued the sequential paper sections with a giant glue tube.The entire scene is only 4 inches deep,and,( I feel), is quite convincing
Down Under.
Could you give us a little more data? Are you looking for continuous running or point-to-point? How many tracks? Inclines and bridges / tunnels, crossovers, either, both? Do you want ANY switching at all?
Now, I want to emphasize before I make this next statement that your layout is your own, and you have to do what will make you happy, irregardless of what anyone else says. YOU are the only person who has to be happy with your layout.
That said, if your railroad has no structures, what exactly will your trains be doing if not hauling passengers or servicing industries? Where will you park trains / cars when not in use? I'm a big fan of continuous running myself, but I like my trains to be able to stop for passengers or service industries.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Is this a walk around design? 6ft is awfully deep is it isn't (requiring an access point).
Jeff Wilson (Building a Ready-To-Run Model Railroad less pricey on Amazon) has a nice design that slices up a 4x8 into a 11ft wide dog bone along with the how-to for building it. I
would also suggest not only searching the track database here, but also going back through the earlier issues. There are a number of layouts that could be adapted to your space (e.g., Western Maryland Blackwater division).
OR
I might suggest looking at http://www.thortrains.net ; they have lots of layout concepts. For example:
A couple of straight sections would create more depth; remove a siding?
Co-owner of the proposed CT River Valley RR (HO scale) http://home.comcast.net/~docinct/CTRiverValleyRR/
Hello and
Can't help with your track plan, but I have to ask about your screen name (stets) since that is a common knick name for MY last name. (Stetina) Any similarity?
StetsHO scale... a table that is 7.87 feet by 5.9 feet.... the Western Maryland Ry. ... no yards or buildings, but mountains/hills, forrest, bridges and rivers. Can anyone assist with a track plan that will work on the table size and of the above description?
Here is an image of it provided by "Train Player" www.jimdill.net
It is rather cool for a railfanning type layout because a viewer standing on one side of the layout can watch the train pass by in both directions (see both sides of the train). In one circuit of the layout it will have passed by 4 times. The front track is low, the crossover is middle, and the rear tracks are high. Despite the grades it is 1/2 the grade of the familiar figure-8 inside a loop type layout.
One can work in some really dramatic bridges/rock/tunnel work. Then there is still some flatter areas for meadows.
Obviously, Texas Zephyr and I have similar ideas on what would work. How's this for starters?
Definately continous track I am after.
With the table dimensions I have, the best would be a figure 8 track with deviations of it which would include numerous turnouts.
Im laying the track on woodland scenic risers and incliners. I bought the Walthers truss bridge so at highest point of incline, the bridge will be there with a river running beneath it.
Good point regarding parking. I'm thinking one single piece of track with an end point.
The theme is freight so no structures for passengers required.
As mentioned, I'm looking at a modified Western Marylands RY track but minus the end points as I want a continous track.
Thanks for replying!
P.S apologies for the delay in responding - its the time difference between the U.S and downunder!
StetsAs mentioned, I'm looking at a modified Western Marylands RY track but minus the end points as I want a continous track.
Stets In a nutshell, I want to build a layout that has no yards or buildings, but rather mountains/hills, forrest, bridges and rivers.
Okay.
You do realize, without structures, your trains will have nothing at all to do, right?
Midnight Railroader Stets In a nutshell, I want to build a layout that has no yards or buildings, but rather mountains/hills, forrest, bridges and rivers. Okay. You do realize, without structures, your trains will have nothing at all to do, right?
Anyone who has looked at the BNSF route across Northern Arizona can tell you that it's entirely possible to have 20 full-scale miles of double tracked main devoid of anything except signal masts and relay cases, supporting a massive number of long trains in both directions.
Many moons ago (1950-ish) there was a layout plan in MR inspired by a railfan's view of the then-Western Pacific route through the Feather River Canyon. The visible track was single, seen from above,in the depths of the modeled canyon. Under the front rim was a small staging yard. IIRC, traffic could be a freight in either direction and/or a DMU (RDC) train that could run in either direction.
While the visible part of my layout will have a major division point, a lot of my traffic runs from hidden staging to hidden staging without switching anything.
The idea that a train has to 'do' something depends on your chosen era, location and prototype. There's precious little on the old SP-SF joint route from Bakersfield to Mojave in California. Just one cement plant, a couple of water stops (no longer used) - and the Tehachapi Loop...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Im happy for it to go round and round the track. My kids will be mesmorised by it!
What suggestions do you have?
I like the forrest landscape as I think its tranquil and peaceful. Im a bit of an outdoors person and love the idea camping out and fishing a small stream - something that I want this track layout to represent.
I'll post a hand drawn layout that I did of the modified Western Marylands in the next day or so. Problem is, I dont know what radius curves I would need to replicate this hand drawn layout. When posted, would love to get some help from you guys!
Tomikawa.
I bought the MR Mountain to Desert book - Building the HO scale Daneville & Donner River. Its something I exactly want!
I think the track is called Union Pacific & Burlington Northern Sante Fe. In it is the Donner River Canyon section. This is the EXACT scenery I am after but I'll need to incorporate that into my track design which I will post in the next day or 2 - its hand written! Need to transfer that into a scale so I know what radius turns I need, and Im hoping someone out there can help me!
StetsIm happy for it to go round and round the track. My kids will be mesmorised by it! What suggestions do you have?
I suggest you consider not having an exclusively roundy-round layout. Decades of experience demonstrate that you (and they) will become bored with it fairly quickly.
Also, the Western Maryland prototype you said you wanted to model existed across the continent from the UP, and the scenery in the area it ran was nothing like Soeborg's layout at all.
StetsProblem is, I dont know what radius curves I would need to replicate this hand drawn layout.
The rough figure 8 I provided above has 22" radius curves on the outside loop, 18" on the inside one. Do you need to convert to metric?
I also agree that after a while of just watching trains go round and round you'll start itching for excitement. We have a local pizza restaurant that has two huge HO scale layouts by local artist Steven Cryan. Each has a train that goes around on it, and a third that goes around the whole loft area, running a lap on each layout with a long straightaway in between. It's pretty cool to watch for a little while, and my kids start out running back and forth following the train that's shuttling between layouts. However, by the end of an hour, they're more interested in looking for the silly vignettes which Mr. Cryan built into the scenery.
CTValleyR,
Thanks for the info! Can you convert to metric?
What if you're using 3 bends? I assume the turnout will determine the radius? Correct?
With the 5.9' dimension: Your comfortable reach is apx. 30 inches.
You might consider a foam-construction "View Block" with backdrops on each block side, effectively giving you two major scenes, or towns. A mountainous scenic block and/or in combination with the scenic block would also work. One or both ends could either tunnel through the block or go around it depending the hilly heights at those layout ends.
Another thought might be a John Armstrong "favorite technique" with two industries on opposing sides of a scenic block, such as using coal hoppers, with a "hopper loads in" on scenic block side #1, and an "hopper empties out" on scenic block side #2. In reality, there are two identical trains, with the exception of the loads for the visual effect with much of it hidden.
Some of those famous Western Maryland bridges could also be included on one or both sides of that layout towards that hard to reach, distance perspective in the middle section, of that 5.9' width.
Also, another prototype in the same geographic area that can give you layout ideas is the Maryland & Pennsylvania, the Ma & Pa.
P.S.: G'day! My daughter won a trip to Australia for four in 1990 with a Nickelodeon promotion (remember "Young Einstein & Yahoo Serious?) and appeared on Australia's Double Dare for the "Kangaroo Cup" between the Aussies & Yanks. We spent a week in Melbourne (what a tram system), and anther week in Tasmania.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
Stets CTValleyR, Thanks for the info! Can you convert to metric? What if you're using 3 bends? I assume the turnout will determine the radius? Correct?
I don't know exactly what radii are available Down Under, but in my AnyRail library, I see that Marklin "K" makes a 553.9mm radius, which is about 22". Their next size down, though, is a 424.6mm, which is about 16.75 inches. Markin "C" has a 579.3mm, which is 22.8 inches and a 437.5mm, which is 17.2 inches. The point, though, is that you can have several loops of progressively smaller radius. Just remember that larger locomotives and longer cars start to misbehave when your radii get too tight. Unless you're running small engines, keep your curves above 457.2mm; and greater than 609.6mm if you have 6 axle diesels or steamies larger than a 4-6-2 Pacific or 2-8-2 Mikado (for the American notation / names).
I'm not sure what you mean by 3 bends... 3 concentric circles? Generelly, you're correct that the turnouts will dictate what radii you can use if you're using sectional track, although you can use curved turnouts and higher-radius easements to get your track to where you want it (I had to use 2 pieces of flextrack in the layout above to get the ends to line up). Turnouts also come in various sizes, with different inside radii. Or just make your curves out of flex track, and make them whatever radius you want.
Stetsthe Donner River Canyon section. This is the EXACT scenery I am after
from wikipedia (no citation given) Eckhart Junction:
Texas,
I understand your confusion. Ok, let me set the record straight.
The track "plan" is to use the Western Maryland Ry. Blackwater Division (slightly modified) - to utilise the entire space of my table which is 2.8metres x 1.8 metres.
The scenery I want is like Donner River Canyon section.
Hope i've cleared up the confusion.
Tgindy,
Great ideas! ALL will be implemented on my layout!
By the end of the day, i will post a drawing of my plan. I'd appreciate if anyone out there can tell me how I work out what track pieces I need to make it "happen"
I've definately stocked up on heaps of foam for the hills/mountains and also for the risers and incliners for the scenery.
1990 was LONG time ago mate (another aussie slang word for friend). And yes, those trams are STILL operating!
By the way, how the hell do you post an image on this forum!
I'm trying to insert a track plan, so I'm posting this message to see if it works.
Posting images: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/141584/1575819.aspx
Stein
Ok, I think I may have worked out how to upload a pic - see how this goes.
Here is the modified version of the Western Marylands Ry. Blackwater Division.
Now that I have drawn it up, how can I determine what track pieces I require to make this track?
I do have numerous flexitrack pieces so I would be using them for the curves/bends.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!
Stets
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Absolutely fantastic! thanks!
Let me try again myself.
Ok, looks like it worked! So here is my design guys.
Assistance with working out what track pieces I require would be immensly appreciated!!!!
You can see this is the modified Western Marylands Blackwater Division from the MR+ section
You might consider getting one of the free track planning software packages out there (Atlas has one, but it only uses their track pieces). But it will give you a materials list and even price it for you. Personally, I prefer AnyRail (see my post above), which will set you back $55 US, but in my mind it is worth every penny. REALLY easy to use and learn, unlike the various CAD programs out there. You can download a free version, but it only lets you place 50 pieces (total,even if you delete some). I designed it using English units, not metric, but here's the material list.
500, H0 Atlas Code 83 500. Flex 23.53 in.......................................1500, H0 Atlas Code 83 500. Flex 27.4 in........................................ 1520, H0 Atlas Code 83 520. Straight 9 in........................................ 6523, H0 Atlas Code 83 523. Straight 1.5 in..................................... 1525, H0 Atlas Code 83 525. Straight 2 in. ...................................... 1532, H0 Atlas Code 83 532. Curve radius 18 in, angle 30º ...... .........7533, H0 Atlas Code 83 533. Curve radius 18 in, angle 15º ............... 2534, H0 Atlas Code 83 534. Curve radius 18 in, angle 10º ............... 1535, H0 Atlas Code 83 535. Curve radius 22 in, angle 22.5º ........... 21563, H0 Atlas Code 83 563 #6. Left turnout 12 in............................. 18895, H0 Walthers Code 83 8895 #7 Right curved turnout 14.97 in.... 1
Track lengths500, H0 Atlas Code 83 500. Flex 36 in. 4.24 ft520, H0 Atlas Code 83 520. Straight 9 in. 4.5 ft523, H0 Atlas Code 83 523. Straight 1.5 in. 0.12 ft525, H0 Atlas Code 83 525. Straight 2 in. 0.17 ft532, H0 Atlas Code 83 532. Curve radius 18 in, angle 30º 5.5 ft533, H0 Atlas Code 83 533. Curve radius 18 in, angle 15º 0.79 ft534, H0 Atlas Code 83 534. Curve radius 18 in, angle 10º 0.26 ft535, H0 Atlas Code 83 535. Curve radius 22 in, angle 22.5º 15.12 ft563, H0 Atlas Code 83 563 #6. Left turnout 12 in. 1.78 ft8895, H0 Walthers Code 83 8895 #7 Right curved turnout 14.97 in. 2.46 ft
Total track length: 34.94 ft
The beauty of these programs is that they let you easily try different configurations to see what fits and what you like.
A couple of comments, if I may. First of all, I used 22" radius to go around the outside, and it just fits in your space (44", or 1.13m, to make a complete circle; about 2.5m for a full figure 8... although you could try using a double crossover in the middle and see if you could compress it a bit. Now a 22" turnout is already a bit on the tight side for bigger equipment (our National Model Railroad Association recommends 24" radius as a "conventional" curve). In order to fit the track you're envisioning, you'd need some seriously tight curves on the inside (say about 15" -- good luck getting anything longer than 40 scale feet to corner that). I had to use a 3% grade on the plan I put above; you may be into something steeper, which again will cause all sorts of problems for bigger equipment.
Any chance you can add a little more space? Go around the outside of a room, for example. I think your 4 concentric curves is a bit ambitious for your space.
StetsThe track "plan" is to use the Western Maryland Ry. Blackwater Division (slightly modified) - to utilise the entire space of my table which is 2.8metres x 1.8 metres. The scenery I want is like Donner River Canyon section.
So you're saying you want to run Western Maryland (an Eastern U.S. prototype) trains on a layout with Western U.S. scenery.
Stets You can see this is the modified Western Marylands Blackwater Division from the MR+ section
Which was originally Linn Westcott's 4X8 "HO Layout that Grows" from the 1960s. Ken Keyser's WM 5X9 version of of it is in the July 2004 issue of Model Railroader.
Subscribers may find it here:http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=1334
I recently had the project of recreating this layout design for a client with a larger space, which made it much more practical. As drawn here and in your space in HO, the grades overall and the radii in the reversing loop may be a bit challenging, but are do-able. There are probably more interesting possibilities for the space that might reflect more recent design ideas, but if you are set on this plan, best of luck.
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