Grampy, Here is a wall I produced utilizing your suggested method. It will have a waterfall coming from the upper portion to a pool down to a lower wider falls. It was much easier squishing plaster out from behind the rocks then carving it to match the contours rather than trying to add it later. Thanks for your help.[
Here are som pics of my rocks. This is my second attempt at rocks. I should have vibrated the mold better to get more bubbles out. I used the easy sand in these.
Here is the rock wall
This is a close up of a rock
Here is a portal that I made from a mold and tried to scribe 09 into the key stone. You can see towards the left how I need to connect the rock face better, I'll update it via Grampy's method later.
I found that sheetrock (brand) Easy Sand 20 picks up alot of the details, takes stains well (when its wet) and creates quite a variation between the colored surface easily. It takes overnight to develop its strength, otherwise it breaks and chips easily. Its very cheap too, $8 for a large bag. It also has a small shrinkage factor and is easy to carve before it sets up (overnight).
I don't know if anyone else has used this, but I found it to be nice stuff in WS ruber molds and some laytex molds I build at home.
My last project was done with Bragdon Foam and a Bragdon mold. There's a bit of a learning curve for Bragdon, more than for plaster casting. Actually doing the work is more labor-intensive, too. But, after doing the job and seeing the results, I think this is a great product that gives great results. There's a picture of my Bragdon rocks on the first page of this thread. They look even better in person.
The Bragdon molds are expensive, but they are also large. Mine is almost a foot square. The castings come out thin and pliable, so you can curve them around features in your landscape. They harden as they cool, but you can soften them again with a hair dryer. You can also easily cut them with a pair of scissors. The foam also picks up very fine details in the molds.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Hi: Greg, everyone seems to use what works for them. From what I've read and from my experience, it appears that the finer the material, the better the detail will be. Hydrocal Lite is a very fine powder and I think it would give fine detail, no matter what brand mold you use. That's just my opinion.
Is there any general consensus as to which product retains the fine details of molds the best? I'm seriously considering getting some of the Bragdons molds, because some of them are totally gnarly, but they're expensive and I want tom ake sure I can get the full detail out of them.
Hi Jason: You're welcome. This also makes the rocks recessed into the terrain, which I think looks more realistic. Good luck with your project.
Grampy,
Thanks, that was the advice I needed. I built a wall this weekend by hot glueing the pieces to the plaster shell. Then to fill in the gaps, I sucked up a soupy plaster mix through a straw and blew it into the small crevices. It ended up looking like cake icing between the molds. I'll have to start again, but this time it sounds easier than my previous attemp and as you have shown, much better results. Thanks for the advice. Jason
Hi: Sure thing Jason. First, I dry fit the castings. If they don't fit the way I want them, I make them fit, break, saw,etc. I use a Sculptamold/Structolite mix for all my scenery. For rocks, I slap a big gob of the mix on the surface where the rocks are going. Then I spray the back of the casting with wet water and apply a gob of mix to the back of the casting. I try not to get any on the face of the casting. Then I push the casting into the mix with a twisting motion. When its in place, some of the mix will squeeze out. I use a small artist's trowel to scrape off the excess. Then, I use the same trowel to smooth the mix around the casting and fill any gaps. Finally, I use a #4 artist's brush to smooth the joint between the casting and surrounding terrain. Hope this helps.
Would you mind sharing your secret of how you blend one rock casting together with another one when they are set on the hillside. I'm having a hard time trying to put plaster between the rocks to hide the seams between one and the other. Thanks, Jason
Hi: Thanks Gary and Art. Gary, you may have to experiment a little till you get the look you want. I have at least 30 or 40 rock castings that are buried because they just didn't look right to me. Persistance finally paid off. As to MR, now that I've cut my working hours and have more time, I just may pursue sending in a few photos.
Grampys Trains Hey, thanks guys. I might consider that when MR starts accepting photos uploaded from Photo Bucket, instead of having to jump through so many hoops, like they do now. I also don't know anyone on MR's staff, so my chances would be pretty slim.
Hey, thanks guys. I might consider that when MR starts accepting photos uploaded from Photo Bucket, instead of having to jump through so many hoops, like they do now. I also don't know anyone on MR's staff, so my chances would be pretty slim.
Grampys:
So jump through the hoops, already!
Seriously, your modeling is an absolute INSPIRATION! I for one, would love to see you featured in "Trackside Photos" in MR--I don't think I've ever seen a photo of yours that isn't downright marvelous!
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Its pictures like those that make me want to smash mine up, stunning work man!
They should put it in MR, thats alot better than some of the stuff i see in there!
Ive been looking at Bragdons method of covering all your rock work with Geso first, that way i figure that any cast material will take stain//color?
Im still undecided but i may give this method a go.
twhite But perhaps Don Z can chime in here with how his Art Plaster takes stains. From his photo, it looks as if it does very well. PS: Don, how heavy is that Art Plaster? As I've told you before, I really like the results you get!
But perhaps Don Z can chime in here with how his Art Plaster takes stains. From his photo, it looks as if it does very well.
PS: Don, how heavy is that Art Plaster? As I've told you before, I really like the results you get!
Tom,
The White Art plaster is a lighter weight member of the Hydrocal family. It cures out to 2000psi strength and it takes washes of color very well. Here is a link to some information provided by the company that sells me the plaster:
http://armadilloclay.com/rawmaterials/plasters.html
I have made identical molds from Plaster of Paris and the White Art plaster. The Plaster of Paris casting was noticeably darker than the White Art plaster casting. The Plaster of Paris casting also lost some of the fine details that were in the mold.
Don Z.
Research; it's not just for geeks.
DeadheadGreg ugh, will you just get your layout in Model Railroader and be done with it already?
ugh, will you just get your layout in Model Railroader and be done with it already?
Yep! Every bit as good as any Trackside Photos pics I've ever seen!
jeez... some people....
hahaha you know i love you man.
Wow. Those are some nice rocks. Some to the best I have seen.
Well, i went ahead and bought some hydrocal today. My first set of rocks are setting now. Hope it turns out all right.
Hi: I would be in the hydrocal camp. I made my rocks with WS molds and hydrocal as separate pieces. Then i applied them to the layout with Sculptamold/Structolite mix. I colored them using Dave Frary's method in his modeling the Pennsy Middle Division book. I applied, (spray or brush) an alcohol/ink wash as many times as necessary. Then a thinned brown latex, followed by more alcohol/ink before the brown dried. When I got the color I wanted, a final dry brushed light gray, almost white, was applied. These represent rock color found in Pennsylvania.
I have used the WS moulds with both hydrocal and PoP. Both turned out well, but I would rate PoP a bit more friable and easily damaged. Hydrocal is the harder of the two to paint.
-Crandell
mechengr Just my 1/2 cents worth - I'm in the same thinking as Loather on this at this time. I've had very little success with either Sculptamold or Hydracal actually taking stains very well. I think one must be good at painting Sculptamold or Hydracal to have the appearance of rock (the pictures do show such ability). Stains just don't do the job for me and my efforts at painting, (as opposed to staining), have not been accepable to me.
Just my 1/2 cents worth -
I'm in the same thinking as Loather on this at this time. I've had very little success with either Sculptamold or Hydracal actually taking stains very well. I think one must be good at painting Sculptamold or Hydracal to have the appearance of rock (the pictures do show such ability). Stains just don't do the job for me and my efforts at painting, (as opposed to staining), have not been accepable to me.
Richard:
I'll agree with you that Sculptamold does not necessarily take staining well. Though I've found that if you give it a base stain while it's still drying, it will saturate in a little better. Actually, to get the color I was looking for on the Buttes, I gave the Sculptamold (and the Cripplebush mixed in) a light gray latex base from a spray can, then over-colored it with thinned tan and earth stains. Then I used Bragdon weathering powders applied with a Q-tip for highlights.
Not using Hydrocal, which as I previously stated sets up too fast in my climate to really work with successfully, I can't speak for how it takes a stain.
PPS: Bob K: That's some BEAUTIFUL rock-work!
I bought some WS cast walls and portals that were supposed to be hydrocal. They took stain really well. But they weren't light and broke really EZ. I wonder what they're REALLY using to cast those?
Grampys Trains Hi: Greg, that might be layered rock, C-1241.
Hi: Greg, that might be layered rock, C-1241.
Thats exactly what i make of it too!
Richard
I know exactly what one that is, got it myself and i can recognise it easily. Il have a look and report back later!
For rocks, plain old plaster o paris. Cheap and it takes stain well. I tried Sculptimold, but found it doesn't stain/paint as well as PoP.
DeadheadGreg hey bog, do you happen to know which WS rock mold you used in the last 2 pictures, specifically the 2nd to last, for the one over the tunnel portal? THAT is the type of rock I need for my layout.
hey bog, do you happen to know which WS rock mold you used in the last 2 pictures, specifically the 2nd to last, for the one over the tunnel portal? THAT is the type of rock I need for my layout.
Greg,
Not sure off the top of my head. Been a few years since I did the double portal. That mold is a favorite of mine and I try not to use it too much as the detail of the casting does stand out. Next time I'm at the club I'll locate the molds and see what # it is. I do remember it is somewhat rectangular and a single digit. I have seen it quite often at stores and shows so it is popular.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org