The unit cost of tortoise machines might turn you off.
As for the 'slow motion', I think if you see one in action, you'll like it.
bascially, you throw the switch (the elctrical switch on the panel) then you hear the motor rev up, as it works for about a half second to move the points.
I think the phrase 'slow motion' is confusing you. It is slow compared to the snap of solenoid switch machines, but still the turnout is thrown in about a half-second.
I recently started operating with a club that uses solenoid switches after previously operating on a layout with tortoises.... I miss the tortoises. For one thing, I keep throwing the solenoid switches a couple times so I can 'see' it throw to know the right thing happened. Withe the tortoise, the noise of the motor is enough to signal your brain where to look in time to see the points move.
For those turnouts which have to be operated from two or more locations I use twin-coil switch machines, with Anderson links* to transmit the movement from under the subgrade to above the ties.
The machines themselves (and electrical switches which perform the same function for 'operate from one place only' turnouts) are located along the layout edge, connected by monofilament fishing line to the below-layout arm of the Anderson link and the weight that holds the points in the 'normal' (most used) position. Since I do use the switch machine contacts for signaling and power routing I prefer RIX machines with contacts. The same machines, wothout contacts, are a little less expensive - or you could simply adapt your existing Atlas machines to throw Anderson links* from below the layout surface.
*Anderson link (originated by Arvid Anderson - hence the name) - consists of a narrow brass tube (1/8" or less) that extends vertically from the tie tops to about 1/4" below the level of the subgrade, located about 1/2" from a convenient hole in the switch throw bar on a line perpendicular to the throw bar's motion. A Z-shaped wire lever arm passes through the tube. The top horizontal engages the throw bar, while the bottom horizontal is perpendicular to the switch actuator linkage. The horizontals do NOT have to be 180 degrees (or any other pre-determined angle) from each other, and the dimensions given are approximate. In my own work, the Z-link is a straightened paper clip, which seems to give the right combination of springiness and rigidity to assure trouble-free operation.
Hope this has been helpful.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with lots of Anderson links)
ham99I just want them to throw turnouts, not activate signals or route power.
edit: Trying again
I made my own adapters to move the Atlas motors to the underside of the table and I have a picture that shows how but I'm having trouble getting it to transfer to my post. I'll try again later if you need me to.
Lee
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii34/Yankeeflyer/trackpart006.jpg[/IMG]
Here is the picture. I forget how to post pictures, I do it so seldom.
The discription the other poster gave sounds an very much like the one I designed and posted.
Still can't get it to work
Lee, Here is the picture you were trying to post:
Jamie
CLICK HERE FOR THE CSX DIXIE LINE BLOG
I've got a few Peco machines on my layout. I'm very happy with the way they work.
Peco machines and Peco turnouts are made for each other. The turnout has a built-in spring which holds the points against the stock rails. The machines kick the points over against the resistance of the spring. Because of the spring, the Peco turnouts require a stronger machine than others. I've found that I really needed a Capacitive Discharge (CD) circuit to drive my Peco machines, unlike the Atlas machines which are happy with the old power pack output.
The Peco design depends on the spring. Not only will a Peco turnout (unmodified) not work with other machines, but the Peco machine will not work with, for example, an Atlas turnout. The Atlas machine has a springy mechanism (the wire) which holds the points, but that function is given over to the spring on the Peco turnout, so they are not compatable. If you want to use Tortoise machines with Peco turnouts, you need to remove the spring before fastening down the turnout.
The Peco machine attaches directly to the underside of the Peco turnout. There is a pin-and-slot arrangement which gets the alignment right. Then, you need to put a hole in the roadbed and base to slide the whole thing in. I suppose you could use some sort of linkage to mount the Peco machine under the table, but you might have a hard time aligning it correctly.
I've also got one experiment on my layout, where I took an Atlas machine and glued it to the underside of and Atlas turnout. So far, after a couple of years, it continues to work correctly. However, if I ever do have any problems with it, I will need to rip up the turnout and surrounding trackwork to fix it. Like I said, it was an experiment, not a recommendation.
One nice thing about the Peco system that you don't get with other under-table machines: You can still throw the turnout manually, just by pushing the points over.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasleyOne nice thing about the Peco system that you don't get with other under-table machines: You can still throw the turnout manually, just by pushing the points over.
That's VERY interesting!
Question: what kind of switches (electrical) do you use with the Peco machines?
CSXDixieLine Jamie
Sorry about my lack of computer knowlage but now I can only post this one picture. It may be my web browser IE7. IE has been locking up, etc. lately.
MisterBeasley One nice thing about the Peco system that you don't get with other under-table machines: You can still throw the turnout manually, just by pushing the points over.
That is definitely a very nice feature because you do not need any ground throws or other controls to align a turnout. I would probably be using Peco turnouts exclusively on my N-scale layout if their tie spacing was prototypical for US railroads. Jamie
WaxonWaxov Question: what kind of switches (electrical) do you use with the Peco machines?
All you need is a single-pole, double-throw (SPDT) momentary contact toggle. This is what you use for all the twin-coil machines I know of. They are spring-loaded, and will return to the center position by themselves.
With my Peco turnouts, I'm using Radio Shack momentary pushbutton switches. I use them for Atlas, too. They are packaged one Red and one Black, so I wire them for Black=straight, Red=turnout. They are round and fit a 1/2" hole. BTW, my Peco machines mount under the table, not to the bottom of the turnout, so a 1/2" hole is all that is needed. They came with a black plastic mounting bracket.
ham99I'm going to have to replace my Atlas standard remote machines in my yard so I can move the tracks closer together. I didn't think I wanted Tortoise machines because of their description as "slow moving" [I've never actually seen one]. I like the "snap" of Peco machines so I know the switch has thrown. Any experiences with these or other undertable switch machines? I just want them to throw turnouts, not activate signals or route power.
Hi I mounted my Atlas motors upside down under the table on a very thin piece of plywood so that I could adjust the the correct throw. What you really need to do is make a little capicitor discharge power supply so that you don't burn up the motors by holding the button too long. I found a nice one on the internet and built it for very little money. Haven't had a bit of trouble since. I sure I have the diagram somewhere. It hits the motors with 25-30V for a very short time and then won't recharge untill you release the button. I know that sounds like a lot of voltage But they snap over nicely and make good contact.
ham99,
You have done what I am hoping to do. My layout top is1.5 " plus thick. Will that be a problem for the underneath mounting??
Thanks,
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
another possibility is the switchmaster stall motor
There are a couple of ways to install Switchmasters, the crank pin method (see photo) and the slot under the throw bar method, which is similar to the common Tortoise install. While I’m not crazy about the crank pin look between the ties, it is a very easy install (compared to measuring and cutting a slot) and can used in many awkward spots where the under layout geography is such that placing the machine directly under the turnout is not possible. Switchmasters are very smooth, last forever, are very quiet and do not slam the switch points like "crash and banger" solenoid style machines (Peco, Atlas, Kemtron etc). IMHO This makes them a better choice for delicate switches and hand laid turnouts,. Their use also eliminates the need for capacitor discharge systems.
Builders in Scale has picked up the Switchmaster line. Check the website for more info. In addition, they have a nice design for a bipolar powering scheme for these motors that is simple and very effective and allows for the powering of the frog and turnout from one DPDT with a minimum of hassle.
view from above - notice the crankpin between the points
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
If you mean with the Peco mounts, I believe it would be a problem. The black plastic mounts I use [Invis-a-Mounts] have a tube meant for 3/4" roadbed, which I cut off for use with 3/8" roadbed [or anything less than 3/4"]. The linkage might be too flexible for 1.5" base.
Another question... What is the depth of the Peco switch motor? Could it by any chance be buried in the 11/2" foam rather than puting it underneath the top entirely? What I Have is the foam sitting on an 1/8" plywood.
Your thoughts will be appreciated.
Not being able to measure them right now, I would say that they are about 3/4" in thickness if you mount them to the bottom of the turnout. I haven't mounted any of them this way, but I know it is done by some modelers. I would want to use a piece of black plastic between the machine and the ties [maybe electrical tape] so I could ballast over them.
Hello ham99,
It sounds like I may have lucked out based on what you said. Atleast, ti's worth a try. When I bought my foam the thickest available was 3/4" so I laid one sheet on top of the other and glued around the edges and made an X from one corner to the other with the latex caulk. In addition I learned on another thread to remove a couple of ties on the flex track at the turnouts so the rail joiners can be slipped back to remove the turnouts just in case. The foam and turnout should be easy to remove. I can cut a hole in the top layer of foam and if luck continues drop in the switch machine plate. I'll get one or maybe btwo since Peco also makes one with an extended pin and see how it works out.
I hope your question ws answered because you have answered mine.
superbeHello ham99, It sounds like I may have lucked out based on what you said. Atleast, ti's worth a try. When I bought my foam the thickest available was 3/4" so I laid one sheet on top of the other and glued around the edges and made an X from one corner to the other with the latex caulk. In addition I learned on another thread to remove a couple of ties on the flex track at the turnouts so the rail joiners can be slipped back to remove the turnouts just in case. The foam and turnout should be easy to remove. I can cut a hole in the top layer of foam and if luck continues drop in the switch machine plate. I'll get one or maybe btwo since Peco also makes one with an extended pin and see how it works out. I hope your question ws answered because you have answered mine. Thanks, Bob
HIAll that sounds like a lot of work and expense, my adapter can be made for any thickness roadbed and the Atlas motors work great with the right power supply.I glued a small piece of thin plywood to the bottom of the table and screwed the Atlas motor to that.Happy railroading.
superbe Another question... What is the depth of the Peco switch motor? Could it by any chance be buried in the 11/2" foam rather than puting it underneath the top entirely? What I Have is the foam sitting on an 1/8" plywood.
I happened to have one out today, as I was removing some trackwork to install proper bridge track on (no surprise here) a bridge. I pulled the turnout up. The Peco machine is 1 1/4 inch deep, including the extension of the throw rod, which could be trimmed a bit.
I do mount the machine directly to the underside of the turnout, and then I cut a hole into the foam. When I mount the motor, I cut a piece of thin cardboard with appropriate holes for the throw rod and mounting pins, and slip it between the turnout base and the motor. This covers the hole in the foam, and lets me ballast on top of it. I paint the cardboard gray, to roughly match my ballast.
Hi Mr B.
Sounds like I will be able to simply do as you have done and mount the switch machine directly to the turnout. The painted carboard is a nice finishing touch. thanks for the post.
Bob in fridgid VA ( my son is sking in British Columbia where it is 20 degrees warmer than Virginia ).
Hi!
On the HO layout I am now dismantling, I had 6 - 8 undertable Atlas switch machines, mostly in the lower level staging area. Once properly set and secured, these lasted 13 years without a problem. Come to think of it, all the above table Atlas machines lasted that long as well.
These are probably the least expensive ones out there, and they work!
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central