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Dual-era for the N scale PRR - planning for structures

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Dual-era for the N scale PRR - planning for structures
Posted by Dave Vollmer on Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:26 PM

It's no secret I've been smitten with Early Conrail, and have been amassing a circa-1980 CR roster in N scale.  But I still love the Pennsy deeply, and don't want to part with my PRR stuff.  I've mused aloud before about how I might pull off two eras in one layout, but I figured I'd run some specifics past you guys.

Let's look at the current 1956 setup and see what we can do to make it possible to swap out a 1980 era.

Starting with the Lewisport Depot:

I would build a second Walthers Pella depot.  I'd modify the roof to remove the dormer again, but this time I'd tar-paper it.  I'd brick over the windows (and maybe even the doors) for the freight section.  Doors and trim would be peeling gray.  Signs would be CR or PC-style, with an Amtrak pointless arrow sign on the wall.  The platform would be empty save for some modern benches and a phone booth.

Now, moving to the Lewisport freight station:

I had thought about pulling the freight station out entirely, but then I remembered that the prototype (the D&H Scranton freight house) is still in existance, having been granted a second life as a lumberyard.  Why not do that here?  I would add removeable signs to hang over the existing PRR signs along the lines of "PENNSUPPLY Lumber and Building Materials" or something (in a late 70s font).  Then, in the former freight delivery truck area I'd add a few racks of lumber.  Here's the prototype in a copyrighted photo from http://www.west2k.com (I take no credit):

The Juniata Machine Tool Company may be replaced entirely...  But in the short term I think a removeable 70s style sign would help.

I would add a second set of these Walthers structures but in the two-tone gray with CR-style signage.  I'd also board over a few windows.

The Tichy tower will also be duplicated in something more Conrail.  This tower reminds me a bit of LEMO tower (now restored as J tower at Strasburg), which spent some time in PC green (seen here from pc.smellycat.com):

Not sure I'm ready to paint it that horrible color, but maybe...  If not, another two-tone gray with some boarded up windows would be in order.  Also, CR signage.  The passenger shelter will just be removed, with loose vegitation to hide the foundation.  Leaving the cinder platform is a good thing (shows evidence of the PRR past).

Downtown Lewisport needs help too.  Period-correct vehicles and removable signs are probably the best way to start... 

But one of these structures may find itself swapping out with a Pizza Hut or Burger King or something.

Overall the intent is to make switching back and forth between 1956 and 1980 relatively painless; something that could be accomplished in an evening, depending upon whether the PRR or CR bug is biting me.

Oh yeah, those PL signals have Alkem LED signals waiting to replace them, and I may redo the track to c55...

Comments from another forum pointed out the difference in highay markings and signage between 1956 and 1980; right now my layout follows the pre-1954 Manual for Uniform Traffic Control Devices.  That's the one that authorized the first red stop signs.  So, although rare, a red stop sign isn't necessarily wrong in 1956; I may change my yellow ones for red.  But I doubt I'll make an attack on the road striping.

Conrail did a major purge of interlocking towers in the early 1980s, but many towers (such as LEMO, ROCKVILLE, MG, etc.) were still in service in 1980.  I would ditch at most just one of the towers.

Along those lines, the section house and watchman's shanty as well as the passenger shelter I mentioned above should be gone in 1980.  Another potential goner for 1980 is the waiting platform across from the station.  If I did remove a tower for 1980, in its place would go a large relay box with a CR sign for the interlocking.

If this works, I plan to do it on the basement-scale after I retire from the Air Force.  Perhaps then I'll do whole town panels that can be swapped out.  This will take care of all of the issues, from road striping to stop sign color to structures.  The good news is how much didn't change; PL signals were still in vogue in 1980, as were PRR stone arch bridges.

Lastly, I plan to stop referring to my layout as the Middle Division.  It's not.  Since it's fictional, I plan on calling it the Juniata Division.  And the Pennsy purists rejoice!

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:41 PM
Since the Lewisport station appears to be an Atlas station, why not use the Atlas "Roadside Inn" kit for the 1980 version?? It's the same building, same footprint, but one is a RR depot and the other is a diner. I'm thinking of doing that on my layout, which will be rotating between several eras over about a 50 year span.
Stix
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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:46 PM

 wjstix wrote:
Since the Lewisport station appears to be an Atlas station, why not use the Atlas "Roadside Inn" kit for the 1980 version?? It's the same building, same footprint, but one is a RR depot and the other is a diner. I'm thinking of doing that on my layout, which will be rotating between several eras over about a 50 year span.

That Atlas depot was replaced with the modified Walthers Pella depot in the first photo.

I plan to add Amtrak ops too, so it may behoove me to keep some sort of depot used as such.  Though it was suggested elsewhere that I turn the depot into something else and then add an Amshack.  That's a possibility.  In N scale that would need to be a scratchbuild.

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by Packers#1 on Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:02 PM
Sounds like a good plan, dave. now let's see that conrail fleet, if you please.Tongue [:P]

Sawyer Berry

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Posted by tgindy on Wednesday, July 2, 2008 9:10 PM
 Dave Vollmer wrote:

Let's look at the current 1956 setup and see what we can do to make it possible to swap out a 1980 era.

Two thoughts...

[1]  Advertising - changing the Gulf Station sign to something more modern, a 1980 Reagan vs. Carter election billboard (as opposed to a 1956 - I Like Ike), etc.

[2]  Drive-Up Eats such as a Tastee-Freeze, and/or a McDonalds which were the more recent franchise development.  The Drive-Up without eat-in would take up less layout real estate.

Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956

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Posted by corsair7 on Thursday, July 3, 2008 8:02 AM
 Dave Vollmer wrote:

 wjstix wrote:
Since the Lewisport station appears to be an Atlas station, why not use the Atlas "Roadside Inn" kit for the 1980 version?? It's the same building, same footprint, but one is a RR depot and the other is a diner. I'm thinking of doing that on my layout, which will be rotating between several eras over about a 50 year span.

That Atlas depot was replaced with the modified Walthers Pella depot in the first photo.

I plan to add Amtrak ops too, so it may behoove me to keep some sort of depot used as such.  Though it was suggested elsewhere that I turn the depot into something else and then add an Amshack.  That's a possibility.  In N scale that would need to be a scratchbuild.

I am modelling Amtrak/Conrail in the 1980s myself. Most of what I have is old (dating from the late 1970s/early 1980s) but I am in the processing of updating and replacing motive power.

It strikes me that it is quite possible that some equipment that Conrail operated in that time frame might still be in PRR/PC livery during this period. So you just may be able to get away with some Pennsylvania equipment without changing eras.

Irv

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Thursday, July 3, 2008 8:15 AM

 corsair7 wrote:

I am modelling Amtrak/Conrail in the 1980s myself. Most of what I have is old (dating from the late 1970s/early 1980s) but I am in the processing of updating and replacing motive power.

It strikes me that it is quite possible that some equipment that Conrail operated in that time frame might still be in PRR/PC livery during this period. So you just may be able to get away with some Pennsylvania equipment without changing eras.

Irv

True, although the paint schemes from 1956 were almost all gone by 1980.  I do have a PRR 90-ton hopper (1960s) for my Conrail roster.  I added the appropriate 1967-1977 ACI plackard.

Some of the PRR's 50-foot double door boxcars made it to Conrail in the PRR's last paint scheme (the plain keystone with gothic PRR reporting marks).  I thought about doing up an Atlas Trainman PRR DD box as an X56; I would add ACI labels and perhaps a COT stencil, as well as maybe a new brass roofwalk (many of these cars kept their roofwalks until they were scrapped in the early 80s).

I plan to have several PRR cars in the mix, all approriately weathered with paint-outs, ACI plackards, and modern updates.

I also have lots of PC stuff; by 1980 PC was still very much in evidence.  One plan I have is to do an early CR box from a modernized 50-foot MicroTrains boxcar I messed up weathering.  I plan to strip it and paint it PC green with early Conrail reporting marks.  Fallen Flags has over a dozen photos of cars like this.  Apparently in the first few months of Conrail, they had gallons and gallons of PC green paint they needed to use.

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by corsair7 on Thursday, July 3, 2008 9:03 PM

Yep. I still remember seeing lots of ex Pennsy/Penn Central cars being pulled by ex Pennsy/Penn Central locomotives when I worked in New Jersey in the 1980s.

I am also anxiously waiting for Kato to finally release that N-Scale GG-1 in Brunswick Green. I am sure aI can somehow get that on my Amtrak roster with some kind of believable story. I think they still have some GG-1s in dead storage near Newark Airport.

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Posted by JT22CW on Thursday, July 3, 2008 9:42 PM
 corsair7 wrote:
I think they still have some GG-1s in dead storage near Newark Airport
FTR, there are sixteen surviving GG1s and none of them are anywhere near EWR. NJ Transit was the last operator of GG1s and they never stored them anywhere near EWR (which would be kinda difficult since none of the railroad lines that are next to EWR are electrified). Nor has NJ Transit ever maintained a storage facility near EWR for any kind of equipment.
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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Thursday, July 3, 2008 9:46 PM
 corsair7 wrote:

Yep. I still remember seeing lots of ex Pennsy/Penn Central cars being pulled by ex Pennsy/Penn Central locomotives when I worked in New Jersey in the 1980s.

I am also anxiously waiting for Kato to finally release that N-Scale GG-1 in Brunswick Green. I am sure aI can somehow get that on my Amtrak roster with some kind of believable story. I think they still have some GG-1s in dead storage near Newark Airport.

Irv

In 1977, the Friends of the GG1 painted Amtrak GG1 #4935 into the 5 stripe Brunswick scheme, in which she served Amtrak until the end (she still wears this paint at the RR Museum of PA).  Check, but I think this is the one Kato's doing anyway.  So you're in luck!

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by dehusman on Thursday, July 3, 2008 10:01 PM

 Dave Vollmer wrote:
In 1977, the Friends of the GG1 painted Amtrak GG1 #4935 into the 5 stripe Brunswick scheme, in which she served Amtrak until the end (she still wears this paint at the RR Museum of PA).  Check, but I think this is the one Kato's doing anyway.  So you're in luck!

Trivia questions:

What was the 4935's nickname and why?

Dave H.

 

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Posted by jrbernier on Thursday, July 3, 2008 10:30 PM
'Blackjack'....

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Posted by jrbernier on Thursday, July 3, 2008 10:31 PM

Dave,

  How is your move to the Midwest doing?  Are you unpacked and doing any modeling, or just 'armchairing' it for now?

 

Jim Bernier

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by dehusman on Friday, July 4, 2008 12:54 AM

 jrbernier wrote:
'Blackjack'....

Correct because 4+9+3+5 =21

Dave H.

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Posted by corsair7 on Friday, July 4, 2008 5:21 AM

 JT22CW wrote:
 corsair7 wrote:
I think they still have some GG-1s in dead storage near Newark Airport
FTR, there are sixteen surviving GG1s and none of them are anywhere near EWR. NJ Transit was the last operator of GG1s and they never stored them anywhere near EWR (which would be kinda difficult since none of the railroad lines that are next to EWR are electrified). Nor has NJ Transit ever maintained a storage facility near EWR for any kind of equipment.

I remember seeing a couple somewhere in New Jersey near the airport. No overhead powerlines were there so the GG-1s must have been towed there. It could have a been that they were there to be scrapped but it was about 2001/2002 when my foremer employer moved there after 9/11/01.

Believe me when i say I was a fan of the GG-1 since I first saw one (in Brunswick green) in 1955. I didn't know what it was back then but to my 6 year old eyes, it looked powerful and HUGE.

Irv

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Friday, July 4, 2008 7:27 PM
 jrbernier wrote:

Dave,

  How is your move to the Midwest doing?  Are you unpacked and doing any modeling, or just 'armchairing' it for now?

 

Jim Bernier

Thanks for asking!

Nope...  The packers come on Monday to pack us out of NC...  I plan to be settled in Nebraska in early August.  The past month and a half was finalizing and defending my PhD dissertation; that was a mostly train-free period.

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by dehusman on Saturday, July 5, 2008 8:59 AM

What part of Nebraska?

Dave H.

Omaha, Paris on the prairie

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Saturday, July 5, 2008 5:55 PM
Offutt Air Force Base...  Just south of Omaha in Bellevue.

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by dehusman on Saturday, July 5, 2008 8:36 PM

Kewl.

You might be interested in the Omaha modelers Yahoo Group.  There is a NMRA Division (Western Heritage Divsion) that meets in the library in Papillion.  There is a medium sized layout in papiliion that operates based on the St. Joe, MO terminal, another one on the north side that is a huge double decked NYC Hudson division and another one midtown that is ATSF Los Angeles.  Also there is fellow building a huge ATSF Coast Line layout in the Papillion area.  Another modeler in the NW portion of the city is doing the CRIP in Iowa.

We also visit some of the surrounding "op til you drop" sessions.   There is a Hobbytown and another train store in Papillion that carry N and the House of Trains on Maple about 84th that carries a lot of N.  There are several of us from the coast in the area (MD/PA/NY).

Dave H.

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Saturday, July 5, 2008 8:41 PM

I did stop by House of Trains when I was out househunting in May.  What a great store!  Tons of N, with a proprietor that's both knowledgeable and a modeler himself.

I plan on checking out the Omaha N Trak club too.

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by corsair7 on Saturday, July 5, 2008 10:18 PM
 Dave Vollmer wrote:

I did stop by House of Trains when I was out househunting in May.  What a great store!  Tons of N, with a proprietor that's both knowledgeable and a modeler himself.

I plan on checking out the Omaha N Trak club too.

I joined Brooklyn N-Trak about a month ago. It's the best thing I ever did since it gives me a chance to run my trains since my home layout is in the planning stages.

Irv

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Posted by NKP68 on Sunday, July 6, 2008 2:20 PM
This is very interesting because I find myself struggling between NKP and Conrail. I am in the early stages of an N-scale layout that was going to be the 40's NKP. I find myself going back and forth with NKP and Conrail because growing up in the Cleveland area in the 80's this is what I remember. I just do ot know what to model!
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Posted by NittanyLion on Sunday, July 6, 2008 10:03 PM
Its not central PA without a Sheetz.  They had over a hundred stores by the early 80s, so its likely there'd be a small one there in place of that Gulf station.  Although it could be hard to find pictures and signage for a Sheetz from that far back.  I can't think of any that date from then that haven't be extensively remodeled to go photograph.

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