My family and I are going to be begin making our first layout this weekend, and we were wondering what you use for the ground. They say painting the wood but I think that will look ugly. Another question is what do you use for track bed, I want to use like really small gravel to make look real, will that work or not?Last question(atlest for now ) Since we plan on running to loco's at once do you need a controller made for 2 trains or just 1.
boyman wrote:My family and I are going to be begin making our first layout this weekend, and we were wondering what you use for the ground. They say painting the wood but I think that will look ugly.
My family and I are going to be begin making our first layout this weekend, and we were wondering what you use for the ground. They say painting the wood but I think that will look ugly.
Start by painting the ground a neutral tan color then add scenery on top of the paint. Ground foam can be added on top of the wet paint so no glue is needed. Use a variety of colors and textures to model reality.
boyman wrote:Another question is what do you use for track bed, I want to use like really small gravel to make look real, will that work or not?
If you can find sand that is fine enough and the right color for the ballast you can use it. Otherwise go to the hobby shop and check out the ballast available. Remember to bake real dirt in the oven to kill anything organic that might be growing in the gravel or dirt.
boyman wrote:Last question(atlest for now ) Since we plan on running to loco's at once do you need a controller made for 2 trains or just 1.
If you are planning on running two loco's at once you will need to go with DCC, a dual cab DC pack or with two powerpacks. Also you will want to divide the layout into isolated blocks to allow the loco's to operate individually from pack A or B,depending. You may want to invest in a book on wiring or check out the local library for one.
BlueHillsCPR wrote: boyman wrote:Another question is what do you use for track bed, I want to use like really small gravel to make look real, will that work or not? If you can find sand that is fine enough and the right color for the ballast you can use it. Otherwise go to the hobby shop and check out the ballast available. Remember to bake real dirt in the oven to kill anything organic that might be growing in the gravel or dirt.
Also, if you use real dirt or sand, test with a magnet to see if there are magnetic particles. If there are, don't use the material.
You're probably best using stuff from the hobby shop at this stage.
In my experience, a two-throttle power pack is not terribly useful. There really is not enough room for two people to run trains at the same time. Get two single-throttle power packs, and put one at each end of the layout.
Definitely get a book that outlines simple model railroad wiring for two train control. While it's not rocket science, it's not as simple as hooking up two power packs to a loop of track.
I'm sitting out the DCC revolution, so others will have to tell you how to start with that. My only comment here is, that if it looks like model railroading and DCC are for you, get started in DCC now.
Dan
Ok, I guess we are going to go with DCC. Also I found some stuff for the land here's a link...HERE
Im wondering if it's any good.
Here's a couple links for scenery you might find useful.http://www.woodlandscenics.com/That one has some "how to" instructions on it.http://www.scenicexpress.com/That one has more scenery. Check out the roadbed and ballast section. The little gravel you refer to is called ballast.
Some of the pretty basic questions your asking leads me to suggest doing some more research before jumping into things this weekend. The more pre-planning and research you do, the fewer problems you'll have to correct later.
loathar wrote:Some of the pretty basic questions your asking leads me to suggest doing some more research before jumping into things this weekend. The more pre-planning and research you do, the fewer problems you'll have to correct later.
I have to agree with loathar...while I encourage the pioneer spirit in the hobby you might want to research a bit more before starting out this weekend.
boyman wrote:Ok, I guess we are going to go with DCC. Also I found some stuff for the land here's a link...HEREIm wondering if it's any good.
If you are using foam you may find building supply outlets to be a better deal. The best to use is the blue or pink extruded foam. NOT the white beaded stuff. It is much harder to work with, messy and not as durable IMO.
Boyman, I'm in the same boat as you dude.... I'm just gettin started as well. I found cork roadbed is pretty good, although I have yet to lay any...
Are you moddeling off of an existing line? Or you just gonna put some track together, and run trains?
And Xbox is good but ps3 is better (im kidding, way more games for 360)
Wel'givens and drutherscome,
Before you even begin to worry about ballast, you must first "Dream-Plan-Build" What are the basic "givens and druthers". What scale is this layout fgoing to be ? O - Ho or N scale. What total area is the room, or proposed layout size. What is to be the trackage plan ? What era do you propose to represent ? Are you planning a "freelance", or a "prototype" layout. If you are going to go for DCC, the initial outlay will be in the neighborhood of $500 for even the basic Digitrax Zephyr, (which will provide you with enough options). Research your proposed layout plans, scenery, and DCC wiring, etc. books that are available at your local hobby shop (LHS). Your choice of benchwork and base for the track roadbed must be well planned, before you even think of buying track, turnouts (switches), wiring, blocking, etc.,etc! Get advice from the Forum dealing with DCC questions, and many excellent books on DCC. If you buy locomotives, be sure that they are DCC Equipped
Many modelers use 2 inch insulation on top of sturdy framed benchwork with a plywood top. I personally use 5/8" plywood top with cutout ravines and scraps of styrofoam ceiling tile stacked to give low contour landscape, and have used reinforced plywood arcs, covered with heavy wire window screening and then applied Hydocal Sculting Plaster. Many use webs of plaster cloth or plaster covered paper strips to build up mountains, or stacked sections of insulation board, that is sculpted into the contours of hills. I suggest that you se Nickkel-Silver Flextrack, tacked to a cork roadbed. The ballasting is your last concern. The main point, is to start with a plan and start "small". I planned my own around the room 24'x24' garage loft layout (with an inside stairway), as a simple double loop, but had a detailled plan of what eventually expanded to an around the room layout. Do a lot of research, before you buy anything. Bob
Ground goop -Low Sassi has a fancy formula. Poeple say it works
I use a simple formula:
Pre mixed dry wall seam compound - I get mine in a bucket at Menards
some cheap latex wall paint - colored to suit you taste. I use black for Minnesota farm country, light tan for Arizona.
Saw dust - I use everything but the stuff from the plainer.
a couple drops of lysol to kill the mold in the saw dust.
Enough water to get the consistancy I want. For flat places add a little water. for some small hills and such, no water. It will stack up some.
Put it on withan old paint bruch, no talent required.
Add Woodland scenics ground foam in a variety of colors while still wet.
You store the unused goop in any air tight container for months.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Actually, we've been planning on doing this for a about a year, but now were actually getting into it... I've done a little research, but not much and I'm going to read SpaceMouse's guide as soon as I'm doing writing this. We're doing a 4x6 HO scale layout in area probably about 7½-8 x 9-10.
Edit- One more thing I forgot to say, I think were going to be doing a more modern theme with only desiel loco's.
Boyman,
Saturday morning go to Lowes or HD and:
Or, you can spend the next 3 months reading forums, fiddling with xtrakcad software, arguing about whether you want to build old steam or new modern diesels.
Just go for it. So you waste 50 bucks, pretend it was gasoline and have a good time. You'll learn alot, quickly and most everything you by and use can be recycled in the next layout except for the paint and the glue. Use glue (caulk) SPARINGLY.
Just my 2 cents,
Joe
Arthill...
That sounds like some amazing goop! I have to try that if I get a chance this weekend!
Thanks!
alexP
As someone already mentioned, blue and pink foam is forsale in 4*8 sheets at Lowes & Homes Depot.
You can buy a Bachmann DCC system and locomotive for about 70-80 bucks. 2nd DCC loco's easy to find for 30-60 bucks (no sound). DCC not to be underestimated as to value. You'll spend 30-50 bucks for 2 power packs and nearly the same for DC only locos.
Again, just my 2 cents,
I agree completely with Joe.
Go for DCC. You wont be sorry. I was going to just go for DC and decided against it. The main reason why, is with DCC you can update when you get money. Which is perfect for students (me) so we can update when money allows.
Another thing I really liked about the DCC is wireless. I am running a point to point shelf layout across 3 walls of my room. If I was stuck in one area with a powerpack, I would need at least 2 people to run the thing, with a spotter, and an engineer. This way, I can walk around with the train, andwill have tons more fun. I know this doesnt really sway your decision with a 4x8.
Last thing I love as I said before is the ability to expand. I havent bought anything yet, and I'm doing a lot of research on it, and one of the things that really makes me drool is the expansion options. If your down with comps, a lot of them have a comp socket, so you can program the things as they are open source. Plus its better to start throwing encoders into locos now, instead of building up a fleet of 20 or 30 and then having to change them over all at once. I know its more money (trust me, its going to be either food or DCC, I did the smart thing and went with DCC), but it will pay off in the end.
Hope that helps you out.
Pink or blue extruded foam insulation boards, 1" x 24" x 84", should be available at any building supplies store for about $15-20 a pop.
Personally, I use a sheet of 1/2" plywood and cut up the foam to make large landforms (mountains, tunnels, and track base). I put two layers of the foam underneath my track to raise it 2" above the "base" terrain level (allows for easy creation of gullies, rivers, ponds, lakes, etc.) You can use Woodland Scenics 2" risers for this too. They're easier to use because they bend readily and don't require much cutting. However, it costs about $1.25 / linear foot, and an oval on a 4x8 layout needs around 20 feet, not counting sidings, passing loops, etc. Doesn't sound like much, but by the time you've used as much Woodland Scenics foam as you get in just one extruded foam panel, you've got quite an investment.
I use plaster cloth (buy at an art supplies store, like Michaels) over newspaper balls to fill in the terrain, and cover it all with a thin layer of hydrocal (again, buy at an art supply store). I paint the whole thing with brown interior latex paint (from a hardware store).
At this point, you should get your track down (on either foam or cork roadbed), glue it down, hook everything up and run some trains to troubleshoot.
Good luck and have fun.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
boyman wrote:Wow, the first step is exactly what we planned, and saturday morning. We were going to do all the landscaping before we laid down the track. I was wondering where you get the extruded foam, there's a video series on youtube all about it. Also now that I've been seeing the price of DCC and the locos for it, we might have to go with just 2 DC power packs.
If you decide to go just DC, do you know about breaking up your track into "blocks"? You must do this to run multiple trains on DC. I have a cheap Bachmann EZ DCC starter set and I think they are great for a starter system. About $65 if you shop around. Their DCC locos aren't too bad for the money either.
joe-daddy wrote:As someone already mentioned, blue and pink foam is forsale in 4*8 sheets at Lowes & Homes Depot.
If you live in Souther California, like I do, you'll have to special order the foam. It isn't a shelf item in warmer climates. And we pay more for it.
joe-daddy wrote:You can buy a Bachmann DCC system and locomotive for about 70-80 bucks.
Yes, but do you really want a $70 DCC system? For $150 you can get an NCE Power Cab or a Digitrax Zephyr. I think in the long run either of those would turn out to be a better investment.
Take a look at the poll on About.com regarding DCC systems (click "Current Results" at the bottom of the poll). The Zephyr and Power Cab outsell other single-unit entry level systems by a wide margin.
Best!
w00t!
Thats perfect cuz it will set you up for upgrading.
Randall_Roberts wrote: If you live in Souther California, like I do, you'll have to special order the foam. It isn't a shelf item in warmer climates. And we pay more for it.
No way! Are you saying they don't insulate houses in Southern California? I bet your air conditioning bills are amazing!
Seriously, what do they use for insulation? Blown fiberglass?
Back to the topic -- I agree with those who say "avoid EZ Command". It's a dead-end. I mean, if you're ok with chucking $70 worth of components in a couple of years, maybe, but for my money you should invest a little more than twice that in an entry-level system that is expandable (and has enough features to keep you happy for longer before you have to upgrade).
Go ahead guys, blast the bachmann product. His option is DC!
CTValleyRR wrote: Randall_Roberts wrote: If you live in Souther California, like I do, you'll have to special order the foam. It isn't a shelf item in warmer climates. And we pay more for it. No way! Are you saying they don't insulate houses in Southern California? I bet your air conditioning bills are amazing!Seriously, what do they use for insulation? Blown fiberglass?
Insulation in L.A. is R19 rolls of fiberglass. Some people use the blown in stuff, but it's not as popular. The only rigid I can find is bead board or the brownish-yellow stuff which I am told isn't suitable for sculpting.
A 1" thick 4x8" sheet of blue rigid costs me $23 on special order.
$23 is what it cost me off the shelf.
You can get the insulation in LA from builder's supply outlets. Not the big boxes, but the contractor stores. Most will have a least some around.
SpaceMouse wrote:$23 is what it cost me off the shelf. You can get the insulation in LA from builder's supply outlets. Not the big boxes, but the contractor stores. Most will have a least some around.
I never found anyone with some laying around. It was special order at the 3 or 4 contractor stores I tried.
Randall_Roberts wrote: SpaceMouse wrote: $23 is what it cost me off the shelf. You can get the insulation in LA from builder's supply outlets. Not the big boxes, but the contractor stores. Most will have a least some around. I never found anyone with some laying around. It was special order at the 3 or 4 contractor stores I tried.
SpaceMouse wrote: $23 is what it cost me off the shelf. You can get the insulation in LA from builder's supply outlets. Not the big boxes, but the contractor stores. Most will have a least some around.
Well it was 20 years ago that I was a contractor there so, I guess things have changed.
We are talking about building supply stores as opposed to lumber yards? What I'm talking about are the specialty outlets that handle mechanical items, insulation, bulk hardware, etc.
Actually, I was at Home Depot yesterday, and they didn't have it in stock.
There is a local building supply store (Ace Hardware and lumberyard) about 2 miles down the road, and they have it in stock all the time.