Anyone here using 3D PlanIt?
It looks nice but rather expensive. Can you get it from somewhere else but the manufacturer?
Magnus
I use it. Its a nice program, a bit of a learning curve, but once you understand how it works its relatively easy to use. I'm not aware of any other sellers besides the manufacturer.
I used it for over a year and it drove me nuts. I did get used to it, but some things bothered me right up to the end. At that time, if someone would have asked I would have said, "You can do some prettty cool things with it, but it's not intuitive."
I had "graduated" to 3rd PlanIt from XtrkCAD and so I knew that program. I offered to help someone with a layout design and they sent me their XtrkCAD file. When I started working on his file, I was amazed at how easy everything was.
I have not used 3rd PlanIt since.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
SpaceMouse wrote: I used it for over a year and it drove me nuts. I did get used to it, but some things bothered me right up to the end. At that time, if someone would have asked I would have said, "You can do some prettty cool things with it, but it's not intuitive." I had "graduated" to 3rd PlanIt from XtrkCAD and so I knew that program. I offered to help someone with a layout design and they sent me their XtrkCAD file. When I started working on his file, I was amazed at how easy everything was. I have not used 3rd PlanIt since.
I use Xtracad and I'm learning it as I go along. I can do most basic things now but I'm learning. I'm not prepared to pay 150 bucks or something for a download from the Internet when I got Xtracad.
Have anyone of you used Trainz to build layouts? I've ordered it today since it was very cheap and is keen to see if it's good as a planning tool.
Contrary to SpaceMouse, I find it very easy to use. Everything is laid out using a X,Y,Z cordinate grid system. It's a simple question of understanding some coordinate plane mathematics and geometry.
If I want a length of track to be, for ease of discussion, 100" long. I draw a track line from my start point 100" long in the direction I want it to go. If my beginning point is X=0, then I know my end point is X=100. If i want to make it a 2% grade all I need to do is change the Z coordinate of the end point to be 2" higher than the Z coordinate of the beginning point and I'll have a 2% grade. it is actually very easy to do and the manual is very well written with numerous tutorials to explain how to draw anything.
Lillen wrote: I use Xtracad and I'm learning it as I go along. I can do most basic things now but I'm learning. I'm not prepared to pay 150 bucks or something for a download from the Internet when I got Xtracad.Have anyone of you used Trainz to build layouts? I've ordered it today since it was very cheap and is keen to see if it's good as a planning tool.
Sometimes people get confused between cost and value. 3rd PlanIt is far from perfect, but I think there are good reasons that many prefer it over "free" XtraCAD. And if you don't want to pay anything, why are you asking about a commercial product anyway?
The major cost for any CAD system is the time spent learning it, not the purchase price. When one considers all the other costs in model railroading, a hundred bucks or so is a pretty small price to pay for a tool. I guess we are all "selectively cheap".
In my opinion, Trainz is wholly unsuited to designing a railroad that one is actually planning to build.
Regards,
ByronModel RR Blog
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Lillen wrote:Have anyone of you used Trainz to build layouts? I've ordered it today since it was very cheap and is keen to see if it's good as a planning tool.Magnus
Magnus,
I have used trainz extensively in the past when I did not have a space for a layout. My opinion is that Trainz is a model railroad simulator. It has what I think are decent abilities when it comes to scenery but I would not consider it as a track planning tool really. It's more of a game than a track planning CAD program. I have been working with XTrkCAD and like it. Just my
cuyama wrote: Sometimes people get confused between cost and value. 3rd PlanIt is far from perfect, but I think there are good reasons that many prefer it over "free" XtraCAD. And if you don't want to pay anything, why are you asking about a commercial product anyway?
I never said I wouldn't want to pay anything!
There is huge difference between not wanting to buy something for 150$ rather then not paying say 75$. That's why I asked if it was available anywhere else, for example a place like Amazon could have it and sell it at considerable discount. I think 150 is to much when that do not even give me a CD and a manual in physical world. I might pay that for an actual copy, not for a serial code which is all that I'm missing since downloading the demo. You get my point?
Now, I do believe you are very right in your statement that it's not a huge cost in comparison to the cost of a layout. But it is still 150 dollars and Xtracad can supply the basic functions that I need. Still I am tempted by 3D planit due to it's nicer graphics, but for me, that advantage do not translate into 150 dollars. As you say, we are selectively cheap, I rather buy a another engine that I don't need or will use.
But there seems to be some people, I have read about several, who have chosen Xtracad over 3D planit despite having both so I guess the door swings both ways. But, yes, if both where free I would probably try 3D Planit due to it's better graphics.
Why are Trainz so unsuitable? Joe Fugate recommends it and so did MRR planning 2007. I would be interested to know why you think it's bad?
SpaceMouse wrote:I may be wrong, but thought that MR recommended it to test the operation of your layout rather than to use the program to design it.
Yes, not as a substitute but to try things out. I was planning to use Xtracad and then test in Trainz to see if it works.
Lillen wrote: That's why I asked if it was available anywhere else, for example a place like Amazon could have it and sell it at considerable discount. I think 150 is to much when that do not even give me a CD and a manual in physical world. I might pay that for an actual copy, not for a serial code which is all that I'm missing since downloading the demo. You get my point?
You're paying for the developer's time and investment in creating the software, not for a "serial code". Whether you get a paper manual and a physical CD is not significant. I don't get your point at all.
So many people nowadays steal material and place it on the web for free (music, videos, etc.), I guess that we now expect we should be able to get anyone's intellectual property for free just because we don't want to pay for it.
Lillen wrote:Now, I do believe you are very right in your statement that it's not a huge cost in comparison to the cost of a layout. But it is still 150 dollars and Xtracad can supply the basic functions that I need. Still I am tempted by 3D planit due to it's nicer graphics, but for me, that advantage do not translate into 150 dollars. As you say, we are selectively cheap, I rather buy a another engine that I don't need or will use.
Now, I do believe you are very right in your statement that it's not a huge cost in comparison to the cost of a layout. But it is still 150 dollars and Xtracad can supply the basic functions that I need.
Still I am tempted by 3D planit due to it's nicer graphics, but for me, that advantage do not translate into 150 dollars. As you say, we are selectively cheap, I rather buy a another engine that I don't need or will use.
Suit yourself. Just don't begrudge an independent software developer a right to try to make a living.
Lillen wrote:But there seems to be some people, I have read about several, who have chosen Xtracad over 3D planit despite having both so I guess the door swings both ways. But, yes, if both where free I would probably try 3D Planit due to it's better graphics.
You can try 3rd PlanIt for free.http://www.eldoradosoft.com/download.htm
You can try it, then decide if it is worth it. Anyway, weren't you the person planning to rent the house next door to build a model railroad? How expensive will that be?
3rd PlanIt is not easy-to-use by any means. It does a number of subtle things better than XtrakCAD, in my view, or I would be using XtrakCAD. But if XtrakCAD does all you want, stick with it.
Lillen wrote:Why are Trainz so unsuitable? Joe Fugate recommends it and so did MRR planning 2007. I would be interested to know why you think it's bad?
It's not a bad video game, but it's not a design tool in the real world. It doesn't take into account any physical paramaters like radius, easements, turnout number or dimensions, track-to-track spacing, room size, etc. I'm pretty sure that Jim Richards' article in MRP you mentioned described using Trainz to simulate a layout designed by other means, not as a layout design tool in the physical world.
I'd be very surprised if Joe is recommending Trainz as the sole layout design tool for a physical layout, but I could be wrong.
Lillen wrote: Anyone here using 3D PlanIt? It looks nice but rather expensive. Can you get it from somewhere else but the manufacturer? Magnus
1. Yes, I use 3rd PlanIt as my only track planning software.
2. The current versions are available only from the manufacturer elDorado Software, the links have already been posted.
I purchased the product about 3 or 4 years ago and have just upgraded to the latest version 8.01 and find that it has resolved some of the bugs from earlier versions. And it is the only track planning software that I recommend.
Ryan BoudreauxThe Piedmont Division Modeling The Southern Railway, Norfolk & Western & Norfolk Southern in HO during the merger eraCajun Chef Ryan
cuyama wrote: You're paying for the developer's time and investment in creating the software, not for a "serial code". Whether you get a paper manual and a physical CD is not significant. I don't get your point at all.So many people nowadays steal material and place it on the web for free (music, videos, etc.), I guess that we now expect we should be able to get anyone's intellectual property for free just because we don't want to pay for it.Suit yourself. Just don't begrudge an independent software developer a right to try to make a living. You can try 3rd PlanIt for free.http://www.eldoradosoft.com/download.htmYou can try it, then decide if it is worth it. Anyway, weren't you the person planning to rent the house next door to build a model railroad? How expensive will that be?3rd PlanIt is not easy-to-use by any means. It does a number of subtle things better than XtrakCAD, in my view, or I would be using XtrakCAD. But if XtrakCAD does all you want, stick with it.
Ok,
First, i know that I pay for the work that went behind the software and not the code in it self. It's just that a lot of companies now days offer a lesser price for downloads. Which I think is reasonable. I do not personally think that 150 dollars is worth it for a download with a proper actual manual in the real world. Now that is how I feel. For me, a CD with a printed manual ads value, that you do not understand it doesn't change that fact for me.
I do not support piracy and just because I not share your opinion about this programs price tag doesn't mean that I do. Where have I begrudged the developers right to make a living. As far as I know I live in a free market system that allows me to find the items at price that I'm willing to pay. I have not complained about them or anyone else using their products. That I think it's to expensive doesn't mean that I do not think it's their right to charge what ever price they want. I just won't buy it.
If you had read my post instead of just reacting to it you would have been able to figure out that I had already downloaded the demo.
And no, I'm not the guy trying to rent a house, I'm the guy trying to buy the house next to me. Yes that will cost me but that doesn't mean that blowing 150 dollars on something makes that a good deal. Let me worry about how I spend my money.
For me, ease to use is more important then graphics.
And you are absolutely right, Joe do not advocate using it alone, he advocates using it with an other program, such as 3rd Rail which is why I'm interested in it.
Listen, I do not want to get in to an argument over this. I'm sure you are right that it is an excellent program when you learn how to use it. But for me, at this point it's not worth it, which doesn't mean that I support piracy.
SilverSpike wrote:1. Yes, I use 3rd PlanIt as my only track planning software. 2. The current versions are available only from the manufacturer elDorado Software, the links have already been posted.I purchased the product about 3 or 4 years ago and have just upgraded to the latest version 8.01 and find that it has resolved some of the bugs from earlier versions. And it is the only track planning software that I recommend.
Thanks for the info. I apreciate it. How long did it take you to get to grips with it?
Mangus,
Now the learning curve is quite heavy at first but if you touch the product often and just play around with it you start to pick up the tips and tricks here and there. I have started a few short tutorials on my web site for 3rd PlanIt, but need to post more.
The program also has a tutorial that is quite helpful, also the help feature will walk you through some common techniques. Again, it takes some patience and practice, but once you get the hand of it I found it worth the effort.
Cheers,
Ryan
SilverSpike wrote: Mangus,Now the learning curve is quite heavy at first but if you touch the product often and just play around with it you start to pick up the tips and tricks here and there. I have started a few short tutorials on my web site for 3rd PlanIt, but need to post more.The program also has a tutorial that is quite helpful, also the help feature will walk you through some common techniques. Again, it takes some patience and practice, but once you get the hand of it I found it worth the effort.Cheers,Ryan
Ryan,
I checked your website and was impressed, maybe you will be able to change my mind about this program! I'm going to try to close the deal on the extra house tomorrow and then I will see how much cash I can spend on this. Because those are very nice pics on the 3d layout. And the rest of course!
Thank you very much for showing me that. That and that it isn't insurmountable to learn how to use it.
If they fixed some of the bugs, then I might consider upgrading. I was told when I bought it that I would be eligible.
The 3d stuff is cool, and I like running the trains through the virtual layout. And I can see where a pro like Byron would want a program that allowed him to show a virtual reality plan to his clients.
I have to admit one of the things that I hated about the program had nothing to do with the program. When I bought it, I paid extra for the manual. When I had a problem I couldn't work out, I first went to the manual to see what it said. I would spend a lot of time looking for the solution.
Then when I couldn't I logged onto the yahoo users group and asked my question. Then over a period of days I would get maybe 5 responses--all of them saying it is in the manual. I should look it up. Never was there a solution or a suggestion, and never did they tell me a page number.
If anything try the free version to get the look and feel, it is limiting, and you will not be able to save your work, but at least you get a "test drive" before you buy!
Also, should you go with 3rd PlanIt you can always ask anytime here in the forum or shoot me an email from here or from my website I have a "Contact" email link on every page.
SilverSpike wrote: Mangus,If anything try the free version to get the look and feel, it is limiting, and you will not be able to save your work, but at least you get a "test drive" before you buy!Also, should you go with 3rd PlanIt you can always ask anytime here in the forum or shoot me an email from here or from my website I have a "Contact" email link on every page.Cheers,Ryan
Thanks Ryan, I will check it out. I downloaded it earlier today. I will check it out and see how I like it. The little I did look at it I did like. If I have any problems, and I'm sure I will, you guys will hear from me.
Lillen wrote: cuyama wrote: Sometimes people get confused between cost and value. 3rd PlanIt is far from perfect, but I think there are good reasons that many prefer it over "free" XtraCAD. And if you don't want to pay anything, why are you asking about a commercial product anyway? I never said I wouldn't want to pay anything! There is huge difference between not wanting to buy something for 150$ rather then not paying say 75$. That's why I asked if it was available anywhere else, for example a place like Amazon could have it and sell it at considerable discount. I think 150 is to much when that do not even give me a CD and a manual in physical world. I might pay that for an actual copy, not for a serial code which is all that I'm missing since downloading the demo. You get my point?
de N2MPU Jack
Proud NRA Life Member and supporter of the 2nd. Amendment
God, guns, and rock and roll!
Modeling the NYC/NYNH&H in HO and CPRail/D&H in N
jackn2mpu wrote:You might want to check your 'facts' before you post. Just checked the 3rd planit site and here's the scoop:$125 US (821.65 Swedish krone) for internet download$159.90 US plus $10 US for a total of $169.90 (1105.2 Swedish krone) shipping and handling for a cd of the program, hardcopy manual, PLUS internet downloadRemember, as others have said, you're really paying for the developers hard work on the product. No one is getting rich off what is a limited market for a product like this.
Yes you are right, my mistake. But I did write " a 150 bucks or something" Not a specific amount, then it just came along during the rest of the discussion. Still that not enough difference to make just want to buy it. If I would buy the 159$ version more shipping would be added then the ten bucks I'm sure, it says it's ten dollars for the US/CANADA. Not Sweden.
And here are some more FACTS that you should check up.
Then, you would have to ad 17 dollars for me to pay for the enjoyment of paying taxes in a fixed fee plus another 40 dollars in actual taxes here in Sweden.
So your right it, it would end up costing me roughly 220 dollars plus shipping which would on average from my experience be about another 20 bucks plus taxes, which is another 5. So in conclusion, for a mere 245 dollars I have it. That's cheap isn't it!
I don't argue that they are getting rich or not who cares. That has absolutely nothing to do with if I will enjoy the product or not! If they make money great.
SpaceMouse wrote:I'd just get the download version then. If remember correctly, the electronic version of the documentation is part of the program. It would much cheaper to print out than to pay double.
That is what I would do if I decided to get it due to the price, but I think that still is to much. I will try the demo and if I like it who knows?
Now, I'm off to play with XtraCad.
You would be better off downloading the software and manual than paying to have it shipped to Sweden. Simply burn the files to a disc so you have them in case of a HD failure. I'm not familiar with XtraCad, but here's what you can do in 3rdPlanIt
And with the click of the mouse you get a 3D view that can be moved around.
One of the 4H corner modules.
Someone commented (I think it was SpaceMouse?) in a different thread that they gave up on using track planning software becuase they couldn't build exactly what was drawn. You should never think of the drawing as being the final do all, end all design. Use it as a guide. In my case I wanted to make certain what radius would fit and allow certain track layouts and aisleways. It's also grade for checking grades and clearances. 3rdPlanIt is a very powerful software package. I've yet to try and design a structure or do much with terrain mapping, but I don;t feel compelled to have to do that since I'm not doing dramatic mountains or valleys.
Download and try the demo. I'd consider it money well spent if it prevents you from having to tear some trackwork out during construction because you find that things just won't fit like you thought, but could have prevented it by drawing it on 3PI.
Wasn't me.
I did switch back to XtrkCAD, but you can print it out 1:1 and lay track right on the paper.
I did say that if you use RTS for design and then use EZ track, it doesn't work in the space allotted.
Lillen wrote:Anyone here using 3D PlanIt?It looks nice but rather expensive. Can you get it from somewhere else but the manufacturer?Magnus
Hi Magnus, how is the weather in Sweden?
I evaluated many of the popular Cad programs and posted my findings at ths link:
http://wwwjoe-daddy.blogspot.com/2006/12/train-cadd-friend-or-foe.html
I chose 3pi then, but since then, I have abandoned Cad as a super time waster and I found the results to be very misleading. Maintainabilty is very important to me, and Cad will allow you to design and operate a layout that looks and feels superb, only to find it is a nightmare to build and maintain.
Just my 2 cents,
Joe Daddy
I purchased 3D Planit for the MR layout design contest two years ago. It is a nightmare to learn to use. It is full of foibles (I hessitate to call bugs). The author responded to my questions quickly until I actually purchased it. I haven't gotten a single answer since he got my check.
I often find something that is difficult to use the first time is much better the second. Not so with this. I have picked it up and gone through the tutorial three (or four) times now. It hasn't worked. I still can't use it effectively. I regret buying it and highly do not recommend it.
I own it as well. Learning curve is steep.
3D Plan It is pretty good at the basic garden variety stuff. BUT as soon as you try to lay out more complex track configurations it can become a nightmare to work with. Not very intuitive at all.
Then again you need to appreciate the complexity of what it is you're trying to design. Also customer support and upgrades have been very good lately. Many upgrades have come out in the last year and from what I understand the manual is going through a much needed overhaul.
In the end, I'll stick with it knowing that what I end up with will fit EXACTLY as designed.
In the end that is a big plus for me.
I bought mine longer ago, around 2004, and maybe it's been upgraded a lot. But I ran into that steep learning curve myself, and quit trying to fight it. Maybe it's a lack of dedication and effort on my part, but I've worked with a broad enough variety of programs to recognize a lack of user-friendliness.
Perhaps the improved manual and program are worth whatever the price is, but (after the disappointment with the original product) there's that old suspicion that I'm just throwing good money after bad. I'd probably feel better by starting fresh with something else!
Lillen wrote:Why are Trainz so unsuitable? Joe Fugate recommends it and so did MRR planning 2007. I would be interested to know why you think it's bad? Magnus
If you are using Trainz as a tool to demo the layout you designed in a CAD program I could see it being useful for that. I could also see it being useful for playing with scenic ideas and structure layout etc.
For what it's worth, I agree 3dPlanIt is overpriced, particularly when you have XTrkCAD for free!