SpaceMouse wrote:Okay, now make sure you have roads and parking for your industires. You might need more soace between your engine service tracks for the fuel and sand facilities. Maks sure you have a coherent plan for your scenery.
Okay, now make sure you have roads and parking for your industires.
You might need more soace between your engine service tracks for the fuel and sand facilities.
Maks sure you have a coherent plan for your scenery.
You get a kick out of this, don't you. At this point...I'll take that all into advisement. I'm gonna start building and see where I end up. I appreciate the help, and all the advice. I'm gonna take a page from Alan here and get to work. I'll learn as I go.
Coherent plan for scenery - yep, I'll have scenery. That's about as coherent as it's gonna be for now. Space between sand and service tracks...no problem. Simple tweak before I print the plan.
Roads? Where we're going, we won't need roads! - Doc Brown
I'm sure I'll do that as well....but not right now. Now, I want to play with wood, foam, glue, bolts, screws, cork, glue, track, ballast, and ELECTRICITY! Scary ain't it.
Thanks for your advice, and you'll be sure to hear from me later.
A6
A
I read thru the whole thread today. Like you, I'm just getting started on my layout, 1/2 the size of yours, and recently finished the bench work. I think you came up with a good initial idea and the feedback has helped you put together a really good plan. I'll look for yourupdates.
markalan
Portland Terminal RR
Arisan,
I bought a train set for my son approx 30 yrs ago and in between I built 50 Layouts and never finished one. My son's layout never got built.
I was always coming up with bigger and better ideas.
My advice, start building and finishing your small layout, you will love it and will be able to add to it later.
You can create some great scenery and learn from it.
I am now 61 yrs young and one of my biggest regrets is that I never built my sons layout!!!!!!!!
God bless, Alan
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Here's the latest. I start with benchwork next week. I'll keep the forum informed, if anyone cares. Thanks for all the input and advice. I'll be sure to ask more questions late. Thanks again!
Artisan6 wrote:Chris: Explain about the Right side stage? You're talking about if I build a cassette, yes? Or are you saying add track on the right side, vertical from yard to top? As for divider/scene change: that would work except for location. It will not have enough room on the far side to stand...thus, the divider would only inhibit my view from the bottom. Good idea though, and one that I'll hold on too for future, when I have more room. A6
Chris: Explain about the Right side stage? You're talking about if I build a cassette, yes? Or are you saying add track on the right side, vertical from yard to top? As for divider/scene change: that would work except for location. It will not have enough room on the far side to stand...thus, the divider would only inhibit my view from the bottom. Good idea though, and one that I'll hold on too for future, when I have more room.
I actually was not recommending a cassette. I am trying to engineer one now for my current layout and its been a bit of a hassle so far. I was suggesting the "add track on the right side, vertical from yard to top " option. However, if you cannot access that side, then its not such a great idea.
Are you going to be able to access the right side and bottom at all? If not you may have reach-in problems.
As for the backdrop.. while your needs may vary, it can be an advantage to have a viewer only able to see a scene from one direction. I am using that on my current layout to hide a dissapearing track that represents another railroad. It dissapears behind a building (or will when I finish the building!) when viewed from the "bottom" of the layout, but if a viewer could see from the right hand side they would see the track abruptly end.
cregil wrote: Yesterday, I investigated and XTrckCad is now on my system
Yesterday, I investigated and XTrckCad is now on my system
I use Xtrkcad too.. its a great freeware program. My only real complaints are a lack of smooth image scaling (you can only zoom in fixed steps) and the way it does the easements.. I would prefer to be able to specify a fixed easement length based on the length of my longest car rather then set an easement ratio which generates a length based on the radius you are entering into. If this is gibberish to you don't worry.. its a great program and works well.
Regards,
Chris
Falls: Yes, it is in "my office". It does have a door, and could easily have a lock installed should it be needed. Thanks for the advice. My four year old has plenty to keep her busy.....but....4 year old's can be deceiving. LOL
Crews,
XTrkCad has been awesome! And yes, once you get rolling, it's easy. I would say this, under the manage/command menu....switch from details to select. You'll understand as you do more. The other nice thing...at least from my standpoint, is you can print out 1:1 scale. Place the pages on your layout, and trace the center lines. Haven't done that yet, but looks decent. I have printed some test pages with great results.
Thanks for the look. And trust me, I look at all advice and try to meld that with my own ideas. I'm so new at this, the first couple of responses made me think, "why would I want to do that". Then, I thought about it more, and thanks in part to Space Mouse's comments on paddle balls (good analogy), the rethought and recreated. Live and learn....bring it on!
If young children are involved... such as 2,3 or 4 year olds. Having the layout isolated in it's own room behind a door that can be secured against entry will safegaurd your labor until said child grows a bit more.
I did some damage in my time and I can never make it right at that age.
Space: There you go again. I had put two tracks down below, where that shed is, then thought, nah, overkill. Silly me. I can easily add a second track there. It would lead right from the yard though, yes? But I guess it would just be the switcher pulling cars in anyway. As for the edge, I was planning on having the foam flush with the top, but I can easily shorten the legs bit and move the 1.2 bracing down 1/2 inch. That should provide for enough of a lip. I have a four year old and am expecting a second born in January....the lip should provide useful!
I have nothing to offer as the advice you've been given has been the same or better than I could have given and I really like the most recent plan. Your own ideas have obviously taken advantage of the opportunities various seemingly unrelated changes have offered. Nice job.
What I did want to say was: Thank you! I have two pads of graph paper, compass, paper templates, etc.; and it takes so much time to redraw whenever I consider a change. I now even have a notebook with various yard templates-- all hand drawn and drafted-- which I have considered as my own plan evolves. It is cumbersome and slow going.
Following this thread, I saw how you made changes so quickly to your plan. Yesterday, I investigated and XTrckCad is now on my system and I am learning how to use it as I go and already half way done with my most recent plan.
I am delighted with the results so far. So, Thank you.
Crews
Personally, I would trade that engine house for engine service--fuel, sand, etc. Then if you double that track you have not only engine service, but an industry to supply. (Someone has to deliver the fuel and sand right?) The engine house can either be implied or abbreviated by modeling just the entrance.
If you do that, don't try to park inside. It doesn't work out well.
Edit: You come close to the edge in a couple spots. I know space is limited, so if you decide to do it, put up some kind of lip to prevent the fall into the abyss.
One thing I would add is to consider putting a backdrop diagonally across the middle of the layout from bottom left to top right. This will divide it into two "scenes" and make it look a little less like an oval on a rectangular table.
I would also consider having the stage run along the right edge of the layout curled up next to the right hand side of the mainline hidden behind some scenery perhaps. It would be an extension of the first (from top to bottom) yard track.
Operationally, a new train would appear to arrive at the yard from some distant location on the yard's arrival track.
Take my advice with a grain of salt, I have little experience to back it up!
Doubleslips are cool, and pretty useful, in the right spot!
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
"You showed us a double crossover before, I figured you'd work out using a double slip in the yard throat."
Okay, so I'm a perfectionist....at least as much as I can be on paper. So, here's the double slip, so I can add a service track/programming track for DCC. Useful things those are. (the double slip, that is). Now, you have to stop telling me things....or I'll just continue to tweak the drawing....when I really want to BUILD IT. :D
Honestly though, continue to give advice as you see fit. I'll be sure to read it....and hopefully adapt what I can.
Ciao
Space Mouse, you're killing me here.....can't you just say it all at once? lol.
Double slip....forgot that those exist....still new. but yes, that would make putting that yard/service track easier. and, looking at the room I have, a cassette would fit right off of the top right exit track. Perfect for use while running, then store under layout when not. if you could see it, I'd be tipping my hat.
Artisan6 wrote: Thanks for all the advice. Space: I'll look into a moveable cassette, though at the moment I don't have the room, but the idea intrigues me. Engine service in lower left....hmmm. Do you know how long it took just to get the double loop? :) Not much room for switches there....thought perhaps an Atlas snap switch to create a spur for a service shed. Again, thanks to all for your input. I'm sure you'll hear from me again. I love the forums, plenty to read and learn from. Great looking layouts and models abound. Talk to you all soon. I'll be sure to upload progress pics as I go....for my own satisfaction more than anything. Artisan
Thanks for all the advice. Space: I'll look into a moveable cassette, though at the moment I don't have the room, but the idea intrigues me. Engine service in lower left....hmmm. Do you know how long it took just to get the double loop? :) Not much room for switches there....thought perhaps an Atlas snap switch to create a spur for a service shed.
Again, thanks to all for your input. I'm sure you'll hear from me again. I love the forums, plenty to read and learn from. Great looking layouts and models abound. Talk to you all soon. I'll be sure to upload progress pics as I go....for my own satisfaction more than anything.
Artisan
You showed us a double crossover before, I figured you'd work out using a double slip in the yard throat.
If you come into the room either to the left or right, you have room for a removable cassette.
In fact, if you come in from the top or bottom, you have room.
The big open space inside the oval....a product of working in a rectangle, and trying to keep reasonable radii on the curves. The good thing is that open space is not always bad. The bad thing is the shape really limits what you can do about it.
Granite,
Yes, it will be HO scale. And yes, I am set on that. It's as much for me as it is for my kids, and the size is better off for them at the moment.
Yes, I plan on leaving an aisle for access along the back...though I may make those remote anyway. the rest will most likely be manual. I like the caster's idea, though it's on carpet...so heavy duty ones perhaps. I'll approach that when I get the table built. Thanks again!
Artisan6 wrote: Thanks for the feedback. Space Mouse and the rest as well. Bus, I think these last two layouts finish off the yard and runaround. I have this big open space to fill. I have two drawings here. One leaves the space open, one adds a siding. Perhaps a small town or industry for the switcher to work? Not sure. As it stands now, I think the industry and mainline/yard are well serviced and a story can develop around it. Thoughts?
Thanks for the feedback. Space Mouse and the rest as well. Bus, I think these last two layouts finish off the yard and runaround. I have this big open space to fill. I have two drawings here. One leaves the space open, one adds a siding. Perhaps a small town or industry for the switcher to work? Not sure. As it stands now, I think the industry and mainline/yard are well serviced and a story can develop around it. Thoughts?
A6:
I like this revised plan a lot. You've got two "town" areas to switch, a good-sized yard, and a possibility for interchange with a cassette or fiddle yard at upper right. You could have a lot of fun with this plan, and it isn't overly busy, either - while the forked branch helps the right side look less lonely and helps visually justify the railroad's existence, it still leaves a nice open space in the middle for scenery.
You do have several switches at the back (So does my RR). These may need to be remotely controlled. In any case you'll need to have some way to get back there and work on stuff, if the layout is pushed against a wall - perhaps put it on casters, leave a narrow access aisle, etc.
I like the first of the two new plans because of the industries coming up from the bottom. I think you need variety in your switching direction.
Both versions are better than your first. Every track is maximized for use and you have variety in what you can do so when you build your next layout.
AS you grow, what you will miss most from this plan is staging. Does your room allow for a removable cassette in any of the four corners? Something that can be in place when you run and out of the way when you don't.
Also, it would nice if you could work an engine service into the lower left.
This space reserved for SpaceMouse's future presidential candidacy advertisements
Open space is good.
Less is more.
You have a wonderful plan there.
Space is like money, when it's all gone, then what? Save some for later.
FV/ABus,
Artisan6 wrote: Interesting take on my ramblings. Actually, I like the idea of running two engines at the same time, and hadn't concerned myself with the "function" of the railroad. Having considered your response, I have redesigned. I have 3 different layouts and I think this one is beginning to "fire my rockets" as you say. Though, there is still something not quite right. Ideas anyone? The scenario is simple. Mainline from the NE and SW. Yard in SE accepts goods from W, switches in yard, then road engine takes goods from yard to industry. Road engine then leaves cars at industry, picks up finished goods waiting at siding. Proceeds to take finished goods to yard/NE/SW. Meanwhile, switcher picks up now empty cars from the industry and returns them to yard. And on it goes....details not quite figured out...as in what industry, and so forth. But it's a start...and much more interesting than just double ovals....still working. Thoughts?Thanks.http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2126/2072618077_e329289ae7.jpg?v=0
Interesting take on my ramblings. Actually, I like the idea of running two engines at the same time, and hadn't concerned myself with the "function" of the railroad. Having considered your response, I have redesigned. I have 3 different layouts and I think this one is beginning to "fire my rockets" as you say. Though, there is still something not quite right. Ideas anyone?
The scenario is simple. Mainline from the NE and SW. Yard in SE accepts goods from W, switches in yard, then road engine takes goods from yard to industry. Road engine then leaves cars at industry, picks up finished goods waiting at siding. Proceeds to take finished goods to yard/NE/SW. Meanwhile, switcher picks up now empty cars from the industry and returns them to yard. And on it goes....details not quite figured out...as in what industry, and so forth. But it's a start...and much more interesting than just double ovals....still working. Thoughts?
Thanks.http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2126/2072618077_e329289ae7.jpg?v=0
I agree with FV - connect the loop and make this into an oval, and not just for breaking-in purposes. With a point-to-point run, you have what you have, and can only traverse the track once - and in this case, you can only traverse half the track before switching back, and the tail of the switchback is the upper yard, which has just been stuffed with incoming cars.
If you have an oval, you can leave the yard and run a few laps, imagining the bypassed station out of existence, until you finally stop there. You can also reuse stations, or decide that the yard and single spur at the upper area are actually separate locations. This kind of thing works better in practice than you might think. There's nothing uninteresting about an oval, if the trains have somewhere to go and something to do.
The lower yard also has some problems. The mainline runaround is short, and the larger runaround at lower left has no tail and can't be used. Furthermore, the track that kicks back off the shortest yard track won't be usable when that yard track is occupied. I'd get rid of that whole runaround entirely, lengthen the mainline runaround by double-tracking the left end of the layout, and bring the yard right off that mainline runaround, moving the whole shootin' match left. This will allow you to run around a longer train, and to use the doubled section as a passing track when the yard isn't busy, and as a drill track when the yard is busy. It will also increase the capacity by 3-6 cars, depending how long your cars are, and how far you shift it.
MUCH Better.
Now build a continious loop. You can run the loop as a point to point while operating. But the Continious is good for breaking in engines. Either that or rollers.
Now your railroad has a reason for being, it only needs a story to tie it all together.
Much better!
Thanks.