Wall-Mounted Benchwork

[bagman]

Hi there

In the final stages of planning my new layout and have a simple question which I hope you can answer for me.

I am attracted to the idea of mounting the benchwork directly to the walls as it will give me more storage space under the layout.

That brings me to my question: which option will give me the most storage space; legs or brace ? The Kalmbach publication "Basic Model Railroad Benchwork" suggests both options.

On the basis that each open-grid rectangle "box" will be screw mounted directly to the wall studs, I'm thinking that a 2 x 2 leg on the room side of the layout at each joint between frames should be sufficient to give stability and strength. That way I get optimal storage as the brace idea looks like it takes storage space away.

I would be very appreciative of your thoughts and comments

 

cheers

 

 

[tomikawaTT]

I agree that a single leg at the mutual corner of each pair of modules (which is what your construction seems to be) will be sufficient.  In addition to being easier to deal with as under-layout storage space, they will also allow easy leveling if you discover that your floor isn't as level as you might wish.  Just install a large lag bolt (or some fancier leveling system) on the bottom of each leg.

My own wall-hung L-girder benchwork is supported by a track-and-bracket system, so I have neither legs nor diagonal braces.  In addition, the same system supports storage shelves, both above and below the benchwork.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[nolatron]

I used heavy duty shelving standards and brackets from Knape & Vogt for my N-scale layout.

Standards are mounted to the wall studs every 16", with a 15" deep shelf.

 

[bagman]

 

Thanks guys.

Yes, I guess you could say that I will be using modules 2ft deep by appropriate length. Longest will be 8ft, shortest 6ft.

I see the merit of wall brackets, but I'm not sure how that would work with 2ft deep and 3/4" plywood sub-roadbed.

Looks like the single leg at each corner will work best to achieve my optimal under layout storage outcome.

My scale is HO.

Cheers and thanks again

 

 

[ShadowNix]

Bagman,

I did a combination of legs as well as wall mounting with bracing from the wall (an angled brace spaced at 24" intervals) ... all from the Kalamback book.  I did use 3/8 plywood to strengthen the brace joints and I have not had a problem.  I will post pictures tomorrow if I can!

Brian

[Seamonster]

My layout is built on 2' wide boxes and I put them on brackets made of 1X4 with 1X2 diagonal braces.  The uprights are screwed into every other wall stud with two 3" screws.  The brackets are glued and screwed together.  The layout just sits on the brackets.  It doesn't move so I see no need to attach it to the brackets.  Here's a picture of the brackets with my 4 year old granddaughter helping me paint them.

[joe-daddy]

I used heavy duty shelving standards and brackets from Knape & Vogt for my N-scale layout.

Standards are mounted to the wall studs every 16", with a 15" deep shelf.

 

Your N Scale looks bigger than the ones at the hobby shop.

And, your room looks entirely TOO clean and perfectly arranged for me.  How do you do that? 

 

Joe Daddy 

[bagman]

 

Thank you Brain and Bob.

Both arrangments sound great. If you could post photos Brian that would be great.

Those photos you posted Bob are another option that I hadn't thought of, but will certainly consider as well.

 

Thank you once again.

[CSX Robert]

Bagman,

I would go with the brace to the wall instead of legs for several reasons. It is easier to work under the layout with out the legs in the way. The layout will actually be sturdier - if you use the legs, if you bump you're head when coming up from working under the layout, you'll be likely to knock over your trains(ask me how I know). If you have carpet and you mount the rear of the layout to the wall and mount the front on legs, as the legs settle into the carpet, they will need to be adjusted to keep the layout level. If you use the area under the layout for storage it's hard to store anything longer than the distance between the legs.

I had a small test section of benchwork setup mounted to the wall on the back and with legs on the front to see how I would like it and decided to go with wood brackets mounted to the wall similar to Bob's. Mine are made with 1x2's, 1x3's and 2x2's and look like this:

As you can probably tell, I am using hollow core doors on some of the layout, but the brackets should support any kind of benchwork. The lower horizontal piece is to support the staging yard below the main layout and is not needed for the main layout. On this bracket, the upper horizontal piece is cut short for clearance because the tracks coming from staging start climbing about 2 feet before this bracket, but on the other ones it is the full 32 inches. The shorter bracket here is not a problem because it is at the end of the door. I actually plan on replacing the top piece with better quality wood (like that used on the lower horizontal piece) but the design of the bracket will be the same. You can probably tell from the photo that the poor quality wood I used has already cupped some. The pillow case hanging from the bottom is just me testing out the location of the layout skirt.

Robert

[nbrodar]

I used legs for the original portion of my layout, and brackets for the new section.  I added utility shelving under the layout for storage.  It was easier to place the shelving under the bracket sections, then under the legged sections.

Nick

[ndbprr]

I would be careful mounting a railroad to a wall.  If you are absolutely, postively sure you won't ever move go ahead but it won't be an asset to the next buyer of your house and might be a serious detriment costing you $ (especially in this market).

[orsonroy]

I would be careful mounting a railroad to a wall.  If you are absolutely, postively sure you won't ever move go ahead but it won't be an asset to the next buyer of your house and might be a serious detriment costing you $ (especially in this market).

Drywall costs $7 a sheet, so it's no big deal to strip and rewall a room. Usually though, a one gallon bucket of spackle and a fresh coat of paint does the trick to bring the room back up to spec. And whatever you do, remove the layout BEFORE you put your house on the market; otherwise, the "thing in the spare room" WILL be a problem for prospective buyers.

[orsonroy]

I'm a big fan of using shelf brackets to support layouts. My last three-level layout was supported this way, and my new double decker will be as well.

Here's a few shots of the underside of my old layout:

[joe-daddy]

First my layout was free standing, walk around the outside.

Then I decided to go around the room and mounted it to the walls with Lag screws.

Now, I am redoing my layout once again, this time, it is completely modular, on legs at 49" high with all my tools and equipment located safely under the layout.  The legs are not in the way as I  work around the situation when I need something free standing.

 

My new layout will now be fully portable and reusable, I am really tired of tearing it down and trying to salvage the lumber, wire, track, etc each time when I decide I need to change something. 

 

My 2 cents never worth more,

Joe 

[joe-daddy]

Ray,

Layout is looking good, even though you did use a lot of foam instead of a little thicker plywood! I really did not like the white shelf brackets AT ALL until I saw the shot where you painted them blue and they simply disappeared.  

FWIW, nice job!

 

Joe 

[orsonroy]

Ray,

Layout is looking good, even though you did use a lot of foam instead of a little thicker plywood! I really did not like the white shelf brackets AT ALL until I saw the shot where you painted them blue and they simply disappeared.  

FWIW, nice job!

Joe 

 

Thanks Joe.

I wasn't 100% sure that I'd like the surface-mounted brackets either (instead of hiding them behind the backdrop) but once painted, they did disappear into the walls. They stand out a LOT more in the photos than they do in real life!

This method isn't for everyone, and I'll be playing around wih burying them on my new layout. But since the lower level will be mostly urban, I'll be able to hide the brackets inside of buildings or behind trees, so I may not have to bother with all of the work and time required to cut & hang a backdrop on them.

[SilverSpike]

Bagman,

Wall mounted benchwork without legs or minimal legs is not only probable, it is possible.

I have an around the walls benchwork supported by wall brackets and stanchions. The stanchions are attached to the wall about every 32" with 2 each of 3 1/2" screws put thought thet sheetrock and into the wall studs. Each bracket is rated to hold up to 250 lbs. + and with the west and south walls of the benchwork up for a year + and counting now I have not had any problems with them or any of the other newer construction sections.

Here are a few early images showing the benchwork and stanchions and construction progress:

For more details check out my construction web page, I have links to MR resources that put me on track to going with the around the walls bracket system: Construction

Cheers,

Ryan

[spectratone]

I like the idea of wall mount. Keeps the floor cleaner. And if you have big feet like me sooner or later you will kick one of the legs.

[bagman]

 

Thank you all very much for your tips and advice.

Looks like wall mounting is the go. Particularly like the article that Ryan refers to in MR by Lionel Strang. That method looks very neat and tidy.

I'm wondering, if I go the route of Lionel how far apart should those brackets be ? Should a bracket be mounted on each wall stud ??  My layout will be 24" wide modules around the wall.

cheers and many thanks again

Bagman

 

[CSX Robert]

spectratone,

That looks great!

[spectratone]

spectratone,

That looks great!

thanks, Freind has a cabinet shop. lots of scraps. FREE. Those corbals are made from two pieces of 3/4 oak ply glued and nailed together with a 1 1/2 inch oak strip glued down the front. overkill for my layout but I wanted the oak look. On top of the corbel sits 1/8 masonite wth a 2 inch foam board on top of that. no weight. 

Glenn 

[joe-daddy]

spectratone

Do you have a website or link where we can see more of your superb work?  Looks incredible to these old eyes.   Craftsmanship is always a delight to examine in detail.

Joe 

[CascadeBob]

Assuming your wall studs are on 16" centers, I think you could mount the wall supports on every other wall stud, i.e., on 32" centers.  This is the spacing Jeff Wilson suggests in his book, "Basic Model Railroad Benchwork"  He suggests 24" to 32" centers.  Some non-supporting walls have their wall studs on 24" centers.  I think putting them on every wall stud on 16" centers would be overkill for supporting 24" wide modules, assuming your modules are built from 1 x 3 or larger lumber.

Bob

[yougottawanta]

I have used many of the methods mentioned in this thread. One that has not been mentioned is making your own supports out of plywoog. This can be performed by determining how far out and down you need to go. One you have this on a piece of plywood draw out your two lines using a framing sqaure. Then take a bucket and draw a curve inside of the two lines.Once you have the two support marked out cut the straight sections first . Then cut the curve with a jig saw , scroll or what ever you have.Attach a 1x2 to the top and back by screwing it to the sides of the plywoob. Mount to the wall by nailing/screing thru the face of the 1x2.

This type of bracket has several advantages.1) It is very strong 2) flexible in size and design , fits your system not fitting shelf to the bracket brackets  3) the curve on the inside removes those annoying knee or head nocking that you have with "angled braces 4) relatively inexpensive 5) paint to match existing wall so that it blends in and does not draw your eye away from the lay out ...

[spectratone]

spectratone

Do you have a website or link where we can see more of your superb work?  Looks incredible to these old eyes.   Craftsmanship is always a delight to examine in detail.

Joe 

Not to be hijacking this thread but no sir I don,t have a website or link to my layout.  I will post more pictures soon on my own thread.

Glenn 

Bagman, Whatever you end up with remember, make sure you can reach far enough in to get to the back. corners will be the farthest . And make it high enough so you don,t get a backache when you working on it. Any remember you have to work under it as well.  I have a camping world foot step I use that folds up and is very stable. Important!! make sure it is stable. nothing like having the stool kick out on you when you are reaching for the most delicate and most expensive train you have. murphys law.  good luck and post pictures when you start.

Glenn 

[joe-daddy]

I had to do some rework in my layout this week end, in the area where I had build some substantial wall mounted benchwork. At this point, I'm going to be avoiding wall hanging benchwork entirely in favor of individual 2x2 legs for the following reasons:

• It is not very portable
• It is not as easily adjustable like screws in the bottom of 2x2's are
• More complex to build
• The brackes and braces are almost as big an obstruction as the legs are
• Messes up the walls needlessly
• Nearly Impossible to get behind it and do some maintenance on the wall side
  

My 2 cents worth nothing more.

Joe 

 

[Vail and Southwestern RR]

As is clear now, there are a lot of good ways.  I used two methods.  For the top level, which is only 8" wide, I just screwed at open frame of 1x3s to the wall:

Not a great shot, but you can figure it out.

For the lower level, I used brackets out of Wescott's book:

It's 18 inches deep (could have been deeper) and is real sturdy, has no legs, and is really cheap.

 

[spectratone]

As is clear now, there are a lot of good ways.  I used two methods.  For the top level, which is only 8" wide, I just screwed at open frame of 1x3s to the wall:

Not a great shot, but you can figure it out.

For the lower level, I used brackets out of Wescott's book:

It's 18 inches deep (could have been deeper) and is real sturdy, has no legs, and is really cheap.

 

 

Thats some good rock solid benchwork. Are you doing any lighting under the upper level? I put in some of those costco undercabinet low voltage touch lamps , only problem I don,t turn them on when operating. The Digitrax ur91 and lamps don,t like each other. I only use them when working under the layout. I wonder how a rope light would work tucked up under that upper shelf? post more pics as you progress

glenn

[Vail and Southwestern RR]

Thats some good rock solid benchwork. Are you doing any lighting under the upper level? I put in some of those costco undercabinet low voltage touch lamps , only problem I don,t turn them on when operating. The Digitrax ur91 and lamps don,t like each other. I only use them when working under the layout. I wonder how a rope light would work tucked up under that upper shelf? post more pics as you progress

glenn

I haven't decided about lighting.  Ideally, the answer would be yes, but with only a eight inch overhang and not a huge amount of vertical clearance I might not do it.  I think I'll wait and see how it looks.  I have a feeling that lighting is going to be one of the shortcomings of this layout, but if we can run trains and it looks something like it is supposed to I'll be happy.  There is a little progress posted on this thread:

http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1207268/ShowPost.aspx

I'll probably add to it for a while, and then start another.

One of the big advantages to this type of benchwork is that it is pretty cheap, and doesn't require any real special tools.  I found that reasonably straight 1x2s and 1x3s would pull themselves straight when we made up the l-girders.  The only thing that I keep trying to get away with, and then go back to is drilling pilot holes.  That stuff will split if you look at it crosseyed!