The last time I built mountain scenery, which was a number of years ago, I used industrial paper towels cut into 2"-3" strips dipped in Hydrocal plaster. This was a very messy process. Many people now use gauze impregnated with plaster for the same purpose. It is the same type of plaster gauze doctors use to make casts for fractures. It is available commercially from several sources and tends to be somewhat expensive if you need a lot for your project, however it is far less messy than the old method of paper towel strips in Hydrocal plaster. Another similar method mentioned in these forums involves using used fabric softener dryer sheets dipped in plaster. It is messy but cheap if you collect the dryer sheets after each use.
Hope this helps,
Bob
What do I think?
I think foam is easier
I think all plaster mixes are now too troublesome to be worth the cleanup
I think screen is more shapible than guaze and foam is more shapible than either.
Good thing some other people will have other thoughts or there would be no debate.
Sometimes I use the Woodland Scenics plaster impregnated cloth. And other times I use hydrocal applied directly to screen wire, crumpled for rough mountain faces and smooth screen wire for other types of mountains. And sometimes I use drywall mud painted on that screen wire. My preference is using the WS plaster impregnated cloth. It is very easy and has very little mess and most of all it is more authentic than I'd ever thought possible.
As for those who would tell you that foam is quicker, or better, or faster, take a long look at a lot of model railroad mountains. You may find a trend like I did, way too many mountains look more like stacks of foam than they do mountains. I tried making some foam mountains and they looked like stacks of foam.
Here is a great example of what I am talking about. I took the picture at a really famous place, known to many railroaders and modelers alike. I think this looks more like stacks of foam than a mountain, but then what do I know? Sure, sometimes you can't tell it looks like foam, but chances are, it has a lot of plaster, over that foam.
My
My current preference is foam. Most of my ridges are tree covered so you really can't tell what's underneath them.
I've used just about every method out there.
I didn't care for plaster/screen method, I cut myself too many times, and there's the mess of painting and trowling the plaster.
The cardboard strip/paper towel method worked well. It was fast, and cheap. Although, I used paper towels and plaster, so it was a tad messy. The plaster cloth is very clean and easy to use, but much more expensive.
Foam can be costly. But, I like the amount of control I get, and ease with which I can mount trees, signs, signals, and such.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
Real rocks
foam, structolyte over foam or screen or cardboard strips, Castings ... even plaster in a pinch
It all works. I like structolyte the best for many but not all situations.
Use whichever methods feel right to you. There are no wrong answers just more or less skilled artists and we can all improve with practice.
Karl
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
To Nbrodar: How did you make the trees shown in your two photos? They look very realistic.
On my next layout, to be started soon, I plan to use extruded foam for most of my mountains. Since I do not have the artistic talent to try to carve the foam into realistic rock formations, I plan to use plaster rock molds to make rock faces that I'll embed in the sides of the mountain ridges similar to what nbrodar has done in the photos above around the tunnel entrance.
Woodland Scenics plaster cloth ain't cheap. Someone here posted that they found a medical supplier on E-Bay that sold odds and ends rolls for about 1/10th the price.
Dryer fabric softener sheets work fantastic for dipping your own in plaster. They don't rip like paper towels. It just depends on how much your willing to spend and how much mess you want to put up with.
http://search.ebay.com/plaster-cloth_W0QQfromZR41
I have obtained the smaller rolls of this plaster wrap from Michael's locally but this is about the cheapest cost per square foot I have found. 12 inches by 16 yards for $18.99. 48 square feet. There is only 32 square feet on a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood.
http://www.dickblick.com/zz335/07/
loathar wrote:Woodland Scenics plaster cloth ain't cheap. Someone here posted that they found a medical supplier on E-Bay that sold odds and ends rolls for about 1/10th the price.
If you have to buy the foam, like many of us do, the cost of foam and the huge amount of extra work coupled with the 'no mess' that accompanies foam makes WS plaster cloth a bargin to me. I am amazed at where I find 'no mess, no fuss' foam flummers two weeks after I thought I cleaned them all up the third time. . .
But then, I like Genesis and refuse to buy another blue box loco because I think the Genesis is a better value for the money.
After taking a hard look at the cost of WS clolth, I decided it was a cost that was worth it for me. I use a paint roller pan with about a cup of water in it to dip the cloth in and apply directly to the layout. Unless I am placing directly above track, I don't even worry about the mess which I find to be very minimal. I did try to use paper towels dipped in plaster and must tell you that mess was staggering!
Only my
Joe
RFinch wrote: To Nbrodar: How did you make the trees shown in your two photos? They look very realistic.
Bob,
I cover my mountains with "puff ball" trees...balls of poly fiber (I used the pre-died WS stuff)coated with coarse ground foam. The rocks are all castings made from WS molds.
Anyone here every tried using sheetrock mud? If so, how did it work for you and what did you use as a support underneath it? Reason I ask is I have several large containers of the stuff (still sealed) left over from building our house.
Rob
Cederstrand wrote: Anyone here every tried using sheetrock mud? If so, how did it work for you and what did you use as a support underneath it? Reason I ask is I have several large containers of the stuff (still sealed) left over from building our house. Rob
Yup, works like a charm. Apply a thin layer over plaster cloth. If it is too thick it will crack as it dries, which is no big deal. Just patch the cracks or apply another thin layer.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
I use drywall mud to skim coat my foam. Works like a charm, although it does crack if applied too thick.
I am also a fan of drywall mud. I use the premixed liteweight. Advantages:
1. Can be washed in the sink
2, Can be mixed with paint, sawdust and water to make great ground goop
3. Drys slowley to permit adjustment for up to 24 hours
4. Is light weight
If "Can be washed in sink." means you wash it down the drain in the sink, I'd be very cautious about washing plaster down a drain. It can solidify and eventually block the drain completely. In the past, whenever I've used plaster, I've always thrown the waste in the trash, including the washings from the mix container.
ARTHILL wrote:I am also a fan of drywall mud. I use the premixed liteweight. Advantages:1. Can be washed in the sink2, Can be mixed with paint, sawdust and water to make great ground goop3. Drys slowley to permit adjustment for up to 24 hours4. Is light weight
Art, But it is still plaster.
I thin it some with a little water, then paint it on with a paint brush. Neither as hard nor as durable as hydrocal, but as you say, it is slower drying and can be still worked.
Most things have their place except gangsta rap, and my grand daughter will argue I'm wrong there too!
Top of the day to all!
Hadn't really thought about drywall mud being different than Hydrocal or molding plaster as far as its solubility. I think, just to be on the safe side, I'd still not wash it down the drain unless it was with large volumes of water. This is especially true for my case since my waste lines run into a septic system which doesn't like a lot of extraneous things put in to it.
Thanks for the info guys. Have over 100lbs of the stuff left, so providing it "keeps" until I am ready, should provide a decent start. Still wondering if sheetrock mud would work better of wire mesh or foam? Those are my prefered choices because I have both of those on hand as well.
Another question, would any old fabric sheets work? You can probably tell I will be trying to keep the expenses down and use everything I already have.
jwar wrote:I twist and wrinkle alum screening, then to prevent the mud mess, spray with adheasive (eng gasket spray) outside, then staple and hot glue in place. Drywall mud thinned down a bit ( as like a thick milkshake) and brush on a light coat, next day another to cover the mesh. I also use Bragdons geodesic scenery alot as in this pic. I always use wash coats to get my rock colors (snip'd the great picture JD)....John
You know, I listened to the wisdom of this John, who, in my opinion is as smart as the St. Johns. I did what he says, and am so amazed at the results one gets. When I started, I thought, I hope I can do something similar to John and remain so pleased with the effects.
Do yourself a favor and go to trainboard, rail images and look at his work there! U will be glad U did!
PS, Thanks again and again for the expert advice John!
I may well have seen your work already, don't remember. Is there a link to the Feather River Route? Thanks for all the excellent suggestions.
Concerning keeping plaster, if it is completly airtight, it will keep. A pin hole in the bag will eventually turn the who bag into a block.
Concerning Drywall mud, if it drys, it is not plaster and can be washed down a drain. I do not know about a septic system. Plaster does not dry, it cures and will cure underwater and will clog the trap every time. You can tell, if it turns warm when it cures it is plaster. if it turns cool it is drying and not plaster.
This is a small but VERY important difference when dealing with it, if water will disolve it later. As I said earlier, fine detail work, carved into drywall mud will disolve when painted with water based paint.